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Criticism of Legion Changes. From a Casual Legion Main.
Hello there, i have been a fan of Legion for a while now. I actually been maining him/her/them since they were first released, and i been playing them a lot since.
In short, i feel like i do have some degree of knowledge on the workings of legion enough to provide ample criticism, though mainly for low ranks and i hope some of my thoughts can do good for higher ranks.
I never made it to high ranks like 8-1 but i thought it be nice for a Legion main to offer some criticism in the vain hopes that the dev team working on these changes can get some clue on how to balance legion and not listen to the Entitled Survivor mains that are patting them on the back for making Legion far more annoying to play against if these changes have the affect that i think they will, possibly worse if addons end up being far better then the op mix tape/ pile of dust combo. Which i will get to later down the line.
Also fair warning. THIS. WILL. BE LONG.
The Legion
- The Legion’s base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s.
- The Legion’sTerror Radius is increased to 32m.
This is possibly the best change Legion could have gotten. The main ways to get any kills/knockdowns as Legion is one of three ways. One of which i will have to get too later for the changes for the side effect it has
1.) That bloodhound/Deepwound exploit that everyone knows and Legions that do that are doing that to cause salt, or payback for toxic survior mains (prestiged Dwight/Claude, SFW, flashlight teabagging survivors)
2.) Use power, smack em with wounds, chase wounded, release power for cooldown. Which cooldown last some time dependent on addons, then chase m1 killer style, hope bloodlust kicks in, or get lucky enough to get that smack to down them. This was best used on large open maps or even jungle gyms. Doesn't net you 4k but usually 2k a game unless survivors are too heroic and rush hook.
This small change immediantly allows legion to make the second playstyle much more viable, as the bain of it was the slow movement speed and relying on bloodlust in most cases. The movement speed immediantly opens doors for M1 legion, allowing possible usage of exposed perks by giving legion a chance to catch up to even use them.
The terror radius while i do not think is the best change, will stop the sneak attacks from him with Monitor&Abuse, and can be replaced with other perks like Distressing+Unnerving presence, the types of perks Legion can use are more open now.
- Most of The Legion’s add-ons are rebalanced or reworked to account for the changes to Feral Frenzy and the Deep Wound status effect.
- The Iridescent button addon no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.
I have no strong feelings towards this bit of news. I never used the button as i preferred speed/cooldown addons more then anything for Legion as i much preferred the second play-style. Though i do think that the addons could be good or bad, but i see him being low tier. So alls good right? Well....
Feral Frenzy Update
You did it. You did the impossible. You managed to make a power, a UTILITY thats even worse then Freddy's.
The hags power was pretty low tier, but that was because it needed a tweak, and you buffed her range now she is amazingly strong.
Freddy's power was the worst in the game, but we found ways around it through addons and certain builds that worked to slow the game down to a crawl, while still having it be the worst in the game. Legions power however, has NO USE as ANYTHING other then a means to close the gap between survivors.
- The recharge time of Feral Frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.
- The duration of Feral Frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy.
- The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
- The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy.
Some of these changes listed here are possibly one of the worst for any killer power. Legion, with these changes has effectively had their power turn into a utilitly to close the gap much like our old Olympic Champion Billy. The catch, is that Billy can oneshot players with his chansaw at any distance so long as he hits them with it.
The recharge time is a huge slap in the face, Legion changes mirror Spirits in using the power, the difference is that Spirit is all about mind games, Legion was about running after someone or someones to smack them. This change was unneeded, however if you want the power to be a utility i STRONGLY recommend adding addons that decrease how full the bar has to make this less of a slap.
The duration is no problem, same as speed and movement speed could be mitigated with speed addons and this change makes sense given the changes you made. However if the speed is much slower then legion when not using power, or not much faster...you got problems, and is essentially making the power useless.
Legion not seeing blood pools/scratchmarks? Again...Spirit. Your making the power into essentially spirit, i'd recommend making survivors breathing easier to be heard in frenzy.
- Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
Do you...Is this for real? Because it is EASY to miss an attack with the right juke, even more so if you say run into a cornfield, or unless you got terrible eyesight. I get why this was changed, its because legion could catch up with a weird lunge bug, and i would agree with it, even though that this would be the kiss of death for Legions power...If not for the following.
Deep Wound Update
- The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
- The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending.
- The Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
Do you remember how i said earlier there were "Three" playstyles? Well, the third was simple. Spam the crap out of Legions frenzy, and essentally tunnel a survivor with DW to get that free hook. This was a double edge sword, as yes, you got a hook. But look there, 1 or 2 gens were completed during that time.
This style however was useful if you stabbed multiple people and tunneled only one person, these changes however have removed that style.
Why is this bad? You effectivly removed a playstyle for Legion and have now forced them to play with the 2.) Playstyle I mentioned earlier, something that should never be done. Nobody should be forced to play a certain way. This update is the kiss of death for Legions power, and what truly makes it into a utility rather then a power. Deep Wounds has no meaning anymore, and these changes further encourage tunneling.
Let an frustrated Legion main break this down further.
- The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
This is terrible for the reason that this is essentially a buff to Borrowed time. A ######### buff, yes they can go down in one hit still, but BT was supposed to allow the survivor to escape from the hook that was being camped. BT however usually ran out mid chase, now it doesnt, its essentially a freebie escape, by forcing focus from the hooked, to the rescuer wasting more time in a game where time management is the most important thing to a killer.
The ONLY good thing i see about this change is that its got potential to effectivly a alternative to whispers. If your a low terror radius killer and the survivor has DW you can effectively get an idea where they are if their DW timer goes down...if not for the following changes
- The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending.
- The Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
These two changes are pointless, DW now has no purpose to even be a thing besides a slight annoyance for the survivor due to most killers having high enough terror radius.
The later confuses me, because it does seem like the DW changes was essentially supposed to add more stress...but..killer doesn't see the timer? So, why even have it at all, it could be used to help locate survivors without stridor/whispers but whatever. Its pointless at this point as only BT and Legion could apply DW, and the following change really only makes BT have any use.
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
This. This pratically murders Legions playstyles. The "third" style was a viable one at times if you wanted to secure a kill at the cost of gens. But now its useless. The lack of damage to deep wounds criplles legions power, and forces them to play in the 2.) playstyle. Which i am against.
Thats not even the worst part about these changes. With all these changes to Legions power, their change to movement speed. Their change to terror radius they all point to a slipper slope that can slide in two directions.
1.) Legions power with be probably the best utility to end chases. Or at least be useful enough with their base stats changes to allow them to be mid-tier. which can be also high-teir if their perks are able to work well enough at high ranks. But could end up being another wraith situation before he was buffed to be viable.
2.) Legions changes to their power, their base speed, and possible addons will entice players who play legion to use perks that essentially make Legion from a stab 'everyone' type. To a killer that tunnels far more, and relies heavily on Slugging builds.
With all these changes and personal experience with Legion pre PTB i find that the changes entice players to use slugging builds. Why not? Their power allows Legion to catch up to survivors pretty easily right now pre patch/beta, the changes to the Legion make me think that it will entice players new and old to look into slug builds. Knockout or ThirdSeal might be a core perk for them.
The worst part to me is that Legions are likely to focus on just tunneling and slugging. Slugging is only fun for the killer, but even then its not fun unless your like me and love to hear the salt from ingame chat or record it for videos on youtube.
Legion already was a tunneler killer before, they couldn't camp to well, theiir power relied on swapping targets to apply that DW then focus down 1 survivor with either frenzy or the w+ M1 killer.
NOW Legion has potentiol too become far more annoying then he was before with the mentioned slug builds, and the classic 2.) playstyle i mentioned throughout this, which essentially has become the go to style to play as with Legion if the gameplay changes have the effect i am predicting.
If i am right, based off my own experiences as Legion then these changes will have essentially made Legion far worse then he was by making her far more annoying to play against, but fun to play as like before. And this style that could be his main style of play could possibly be countered with perks like Unbreakable, flip-flop, tenacity, or any perks around that seems to be good with countering slug builds.
How to change this and give Legion proper buffs?? I dunno. I am not a game developer, i can only call out ######### when i see bullshit. I can throw out ideas here and there, but any and all ideas i have would be biased towards killers as i cannot stand playing survivor as i have no friends to play this with, and SoloQue survivor is hell with all these DC'S at the moment.
In conclusion/ TL;DR.
Legions power is nothing more then a utility to catch up to survivors similiar to Billy's Chainsaw with as much travel power but without the killing power
Legions movement speed/terror radius allow more usage of perks making exposed perks more useful.
Legions change to power and DW will force players to run the style of the following. Slap em with feral, catch up with feral, cancel feral, chase them with w+M1
Deep wounds is now a buff to BT
Legions kit, power and DW changes will make Legions more enticed to slug players which will just cause survivors to DC rather then play. And the same builds could be countered with anti-slug perks if i am right.
All the survivors cheering "Yay Legion is dead" Are essentially replacing a already bad killer, with a far worse killer thats going to be annoying to play as or against.
My final thoughts
This was a bad change. And the worst part is the pieces are there for a potental Legion rework to be amazing. But all i see is something that is essentially a "TAKE THAT" to the entitled survivor mains by replacing a killer with issues with something far worse for everyone.
I want to love this update, i really do, i want to praise atop the highest mountain that Legion is fixed. In some ways he is, but at the same time she isn't.
This update, if nothing or hardly nothing is changed from PTB like i predict/expect then this will cause more DC's more distrust with devs, and in general will just be another thing on the list of things to complain about this game.
Thats all that i gotta say, maybe when the PTB arrives i will have more to say along with others. But for now i am just gonna predict the discussions of salt from survivors being slugged to death by legion and legions being countered by anti-slugging builds.
Comments
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Very good feedback. I completely agree with you. @Peanits @not_Queen
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Glad that you agree, Means i succeeded in making my points clear as i can ^-^
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Absolutely. Some changes are good. But rest of it are just survivor sided. And they didn't even give them any sort of buffs to deep wound or Frenzy. This is just a bad change.
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Which is why i made this pretty much essay of a post within the last two hours. Really nobody is going to "win" with this, Legion is getting nerfed, and survivors will have to deal with being slugged. Both of which i feel are bad.
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I say wait for the test run. There is a very good chance some of it won't make it through. No use in critiquing before it gets a full test.
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This just proves that when devs say "casual playstyle" they mean "survivors casual playstyle."
I still cant believe they are afraid to make another Billy Tier killer, considering Billy is the most balanced killer and anyone who disagrees is either trolling, incredibly survivor sided or just doesnt know ######### about this game...
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Normally i would agree and wait for the test run, the problem is that these changes to Legion are not good overall despite there being good tidbits here and there. More importantly have potential to screw both Legion and Survivors which will hurt the game if my predictions are right.
Plus, maybe my critique might make an impact if it isn't drowned by "Legion is dead" from killers or "hahaha ######### legion and killer mains" from survivors. But that is a blind hope admittingly.
They are probably afraid of making another Billy Tier killer because of Nurse, who's main gimmick pretty much ignores pallets. Though that is really speculation on my end.
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I can't wait to see another killer that will never be used ever when i'm playing survivor, it's so boring playing against the same killers game after game, sure the legion had problems with Frank's mixtape and the exploit with the mending timer, but he was fairly easy to beat when the killer didn't use that stuff. I actually haven't seen a Legion killer for weeks in the games that I have played it's usually Nurse, Billy, Clown, Myers, and sometimes the occasional addon heavy spirit.
My point is the Devs are making an already weak killer weaker not just by nerfing the addons, but by nerfing the killer's power as well which is honestly just leading to another Freddy mistake or wraith with a M1 killer that is only efficiently playable at a low rank. From what I have read they only really buffed the speed and duration the terror raidous just makes the power effectively destroyed. Taking away a killer's one characteristic that set the Legion apart from the other killers and making it useless in chases which was the only thing the power was good for originally.
Some of us wanted the legion to be reworked so he was actually playable when playing against higher ranked survivors that knew what they were doing, not another Freddy.
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Absolutely agree.
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I agree. Though i do want to add that i feel that this change to Legion will just create more Killers who are cynical/Jaded due to the devs constant questionable decisions.
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