Should MoM require a safe unhook before activating?
This is my idea of a MoM rework so it requires at least a modicum of skill on the survivor's behalf, thereby rewarding them for skill, as opposed to punishing the killer for trying to win chases:
After performing a safe unhook, you won't be put in the dying state the first time it happens (same as it is now, but it activates on the first time you're supposed to go down). Only activates once per trial. If you're hooked, it will not activate (to compensate for the fact that it would prevent being put in the dying state from any source the first time it happens).
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MoM gives the same advantage to survivors as Spirit Fury gives to killers. If they're going to nerf it, Spirit Fury should also be nerfed.
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Spirit Fury stuns the killer (a drawback for the killer and a positive for the survivor). MoM gives the survivor a sprint burst and slows the killer (a drawback for the killer and a positive for the survivor).
Remind me again how SF is equivalent to MoM.
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I don't remember Spirit fury giving killers a free hit @RakimSockem
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It's definitely not the same...
Spirit Fury can be countered, just throw the pallet earlier.
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Should NOED require hooking all 4 at least once?
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Yeah, it basically does. When you see that Spirit Fury activate, you basically go down within the next 3-4 seconds because that stun you thought you would have was your only option in that area of the map.
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It should nerfed and must works like WGLF. This perk is just a DS V2.
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Stay on-topic.
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That's fine and dandy once you know they have it and you can counter it every moment from then on.
MoM is likely to activate once a match? So yeah, it basically is the same. The only way to get it to activate more than once is if the killer lets you escape the chase and get healed which would then be the killers fault for not having enough skill to catch the person.
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So you say that MOM = SF or MOM =SB+E ?
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It would make It even more broken as there would be nothing to prevent such strong perk to be activated. At least you can "counter" it with Billy or Bubba...
I think the best option is to make It "build stacks" when tanking hits.
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Oh, interesting, I didn't realize that there was a 2nd mandatory perk in order for MoM to be useful. I know it's Enduring for Spirit Fury. What is it for MoM again?
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No.
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Yeh but MoM also reveals the survivor, and takes longer to activate than spirit fury, and can only be used once. Your point is?
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Oh ok, sorry, my bad. If I get to play against you I'll just camp you to make sure I dont let you go and heal yourself, I hope you give me a gg when I do :)
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My point is that the two are not equivalent. What's yours?
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The balance of Mettle of Man doesn't impact the balance of Spirit Furry. So nerfing Mettle of Man is not a reason in favor of nerfing Spirit Furry even if Spirit Furry did need to be nerfed.
As another example, nerfing DS does not imply nerfing NOED because they don't have any special interaction, however nerfing adrenaline might mean nerfing NOED because NOED is a direct counter to adrenalines healing effect. Same for the DS rework requiring a Dying Light buff.
Changing one perk only implies changing another when the 2 perks have a direct interaction with each other. Otherwise they should be looked at on their own merits
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Which is why I want people to stay on-topic. Don't make me summon a mod.
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Isn't that what most killers do anyway? Kappa XD
Real talk though, the two perks are essentially the same and if anything, knowing you have to drop pallets early is a waste of pallets which is still an advantage for the killer. So as far as I see it, nerf both or leave them both alone.
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NoED already requires the killer to let survivors get to endgame and rely on dull totems still being up and if it does activate that it isn't instantly destroyed. Y'all gotta let this noed stuff go.
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You are wrong on so many lvls
1: Spirit fury needs a second perk to be good named enduring. MoM dosent.
2: You can throw the pallet early and avoid it 100% of the time.
3: Spirit Fury stuns the killer. But MoM gives a free sprint burst and slows the killer.
4: Even if Spirit fury activates it isnt 100% a hit after sometimes the survivor gets away to a pallet still because of the stun and a exhaustion perk for example.
Maybe think before claiming something totally wrong?
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These perks aren't comparable, y'all. Move on.
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@RakimSockem No, Spirit fury by itself isn't a free hit, if you combine it with Enduring then maybe it can be one but that's stretching to the maximum, it's a fair tradeoff for giving up 2 perks, while MoM is 1 perk that only require you getting hit (Wich you should avoid as a survivor mind you).
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People complain that MoM isn't fun to play against but yet there are a ton of add ons the killer has that isn't fun to play against at all, its no different. It doesn't matter what you do the same people who admittingly dont even play the game much anymore(or dwell in the lower ranks on both sides) will come here crying like their opinion should be accounted for when they have no idea what happens at high ranks on either side at the current state of the game it's like they still think think it's the old DBD where survivors truly were OP, what's funny is killers have bitched at the devs to change the meta up and have more options than the same old song and dance because it was"getting old" facing the same perks they claim, the devs deliver with new perks that make you choose between old and new perks on both sides over the past year and what happens? CRYFEST 2019 Y'all!!!! I'm selling the ######### shirts if anyone would like one.
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Thank you for stating that more efficiently.
Also if I'm correct, you don't even have to be stunned to get your Spirit Fury stacks. You just have to break 2 pallets. Is that correct?
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It's not because it's not fun to play against, it's because some killers just cant counter It in any way, unlike add-ons, which all of them can be countered by any survivor with half a brain...
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@Trikset wrong the killer doesn't get stunned but has to break pallets and then once they gain the perk they don't respect pallets so that they will get stunned for sure and make use of the perk
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Run a one shot killer, or a killer that uses power it's got a counter but people just ignore it to support their narrative because they don't like it , what's the counter to iri hatchets? Don't get hit and break LOS lol same with MoM don't M1, Myers ew3 infinite? "Don't let him stalk" ok bro the bias is obvious from you otherwise you would see my point , it's not fun to play against MoM but neither are certain killers and their add-ons but it's here to stay
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No, Spirit Fury only needs one stun to work - the one that breaks the pallet. Even then, it's rewarding the killer for breaking pallets, which they should be doing. MoM, however, punishes killers for doing what they should be doing and rewards survivors for failing to win chases.
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@Trikset they have better perks to use as an example but just from someone who's been here for a while , it doesn't matter how much sense anything you say makes the same people who don't even play the game often anymore or derank will dwell on here trolling and acting like they are the all knowing DBD gods who are never wrong and anyone with a differing opinion is
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They do have to get stunned for the perk to work, but only once they've broken enough pallets.
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No, it would go against what ash is
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We don't need more reasons for survivors to rush hooks and unhooking has nothing to do with MoM. In most cases, it'll only go off after the second hook and the killer's not stunned during this time, too. If anything, we could argue that they could stay broken for the rest of the match instead of being seen if that would make you feel better about it, but it wouldn't make sense to connect it to saving someone off the hook.
Also please note the perk comes with a downside. It isn't beneficial for the killer to see you after you heal.
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That just makes it a deliverance 2.0. It would never work.
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Sure, i don't mind Survivors having to put actual thought into their rescues instead of MUH B-POINTZ!
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Either an unhook or healing one full health state or you could make it like DS where it's activated once you're unhooked you get a free hit. So instead of taking 3 hits to activate it's activated once you've been unhooked and is active for x seconds.
Basically it'd become an anti tunneling perk similar to DS but also only last 60 seconds and requires either a SAFE unhook, unhooking yourself. You could also have as an option to heal 1 full health state either yourself or someone else.
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Nah, the only way you'd get survivors caring is to change WGLF so that it requires safe unhooks. All adding a safe unhook requirement to MoM would do was add on an unrelated requirement. You'd also get more hook rushing 'cause everyone wants to start their stacks. @Boss
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Spirit fury requires enduring to be at it's full potential... mom requires nothing but can be used with multiple other perks enhancing the survivor build to the point where if the player is remotely decent enough the player is nearly God mode
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But to reply to OP....
I was part of the crew that wanted to see the end game changes and what they were going to bring..... now that I see that nothing is really changing.... yes MoM does need something..
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The only thing that really confuses me about MoM is that despite being an obsession perk, it does not appear that the perk has any differences in effectiveness between the obsession and non-obsession version. Kind of like first version of DS.
If the Non-Obsession version was a bit less effective, that would be a decent nerf IMO, at least for starters.
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Honestly I'm not bothered by the raw power of the perk. Yes it is a chase extender so it is going to be meta, but it can't extend chases for as long as balanced landing for example. And the speed boost + killer slow is less than with DS. However both of those perks I just listed are fine despite being arguably far more powerful than MoM.
This is because of 2 things:
A: Rewarding for faliure
and
B: Lack of action behind it's use
Let me explain.
When I say it rewards for punishment I do NOT mean that "her der its a second chance perk". No, when I say it rewards for faliure I mean that if I have MoM then I would PREFER to have it activate.
Basically. When I compare MoM when active to having not needed it to activate in the first place I would prefer having it active. Since at best without MoM I have:
2/1 health states -> 2 health states with instant down immunity or 3 health states
Comparing this to other second chance perks:
Adrenaline - 2 health states -> still 2 health states
DS - 1 health state -> 1 health state
BT - 1 health state -> 1 health state and on a bleed out timer
Instant heal - 2 health states and with a med kit -> 2 health states and no item
Deliverance -> 2/1 health states and having never been hooked -> 1 health state, broken and on 2nd hook
DH - 1 health state -> 1 health state and exhausted
Spirit Furry - Hitting a survivor -> Chasing a survivor who has a 2.1 second lead
NOED - At least 1 generator is up -> exit gates are powered but you are faster and with an instant down
See the pattern? With the exception of MoM you always either prefer the perk is wasted or at least are indifferent.
Sure being able to hop off the hook is nice, but it is better to not get hooked. Being able to dodge an attack is cool, but now I can't use balanced landing. Being able to break the pallet that stunned you is great, but the alternative is getting the hit immediately. MoM however? Get hit and now you can tank a chainsaw.
As for lack of action:
DS? You need to be unhooked, sure it isn't you but someone has to do something to actively make it happen. Not to mention it has the skill check.
DH has a button.
Deliverance has the unhook requirement
insta-heals require actively consuming the medkit before the 2nd hit
Spirit furry requires you to take the time to break the pallets
BT requires an unhook
NOED requires defending your totems.
MoM however is automatic, and thus kinda borring. Not that all of the perks I listed have the BEST of interactive elements, but they all have SOMETHING.
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