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Marth experiment
Answers
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I still think these experiments were meaningless. All they proved was that if you did the strongest thing you could do as a survivor (4 man genrushing with comms and perfect coordination), you will rarely lose.
Like...no #########. If you do the strongest possible thing you can do you will win the majority of the time against mostly random people.
If you do the strongest possible thing you can do as killer (Omegablink Nurse) you will win the majority of the time. Both sides have an option to do something so brokenly strong that few things will counter it.
But the reality is: you extremely rarely go against a truly good Nurse who is also using omegablink, and you extremely rarely go against a very coordinated 4 man SWF who is playing like they're in a tournament for some reason, so why would anyone use any of this information as a reference of balance?
Saying "SWF is too strong, look at the Marth experiments" is as dumb of a statement as "Killer is too strong, look at Marth playing omegablink Nurse." You're ignoring the other 99% of games that aren't these situations. Normal, even four man SWF groups, do NOT play like that.
Everyone always says "The point was to prove how broken SWF CAN be" but Omegablink Nurse in the hands of an extremely good Nurse player is absolutely just as broken and for some reason no one ever comments on that.
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I mean, people constantly talk about nerfing Omega blink nurse so I don't know what you're on about. There's also a false equivalency in that Nurse may win with those OP addons, but she loses them every game, where as there is zero cost to survivors to coordinate and gen rush every game, aside from pipping. The experiment is still and was then, a good example of how this is not a competitively balanced game. But you're right, even the devs have said that the game isn't supposed to be competitively balanced.
Having said that, "People don't play like that" is just a bad argument based on your (admittedly large) personal experience. It's hardly proof of anything. I play on Xbox where I get party invites from the other survivors while playing solo at least 50% of the time, and any communication is a massive leg up. It's a straw man of epic proportions to act like it takes Navy seal level coordination to gain a MASSIVE advantage over a killer of equal skill.
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You don't refuse to fix a survivor's infinite because only a small percentage of the players use it. You fix it because it gives an overwhelming advantage to one side and breaks the balance of the game.
You don't refuse to fix a killer's moonwalking exploit because only a small percentage of the players use it. You fix it because it gives an overwhelming advantage to one side and breaks the balance of the game.
If coordinated SWF or Nurse with ultra-rare addons give an overwhelming advantage and breaks the balance of the game, "only a small number of people..." is a poor excuse to not fix the problem.
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I feel like the add-on argument is really weak. With BBQ you can clear a full bloodweb every game. If you wanted, you could have infinite addons of any kind barring maybe ultra rares.
What if I did the same experiment but with killer and won 100 games in a row with someone like Spirit? Would that mean anything? I don't think it would.
I think this game is balanced around regular SWF. Solo queue is a nightmare and depip squads are too strong, but they also barely exist.
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The thing is depip squad is not even good at a game in my opinion. Prove me wrong. Bring 4 man swf perkless addonless play against me . Lets have around 30-40 games i will prove what i said in this thread. I will run perks though but you dont since swf will cover it up.
Post edited by Slayer on0 -
Depip squad IS NOT HIGH LEVEL PLAY
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1) Open up their profiles if its private its most likely swf and its up to you whether or not to take good build.
2) BBQ covers for it. The only killers that lacks resources are casuals and wasnt it you saying that the game shouldnt be balanced around 20 rank potatoes?
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Ok here is the thing is not perfect but it showed EXACTLY what the problems were. Grant it a lot of the killers we faced are not as good as the names i mentioned above, but even when they played us they were snowballed as well. Only Scott was able to do something and it was against our survivor group with absolutely no perks. The experiment was to show the core objective of the game is easily exploitable into the survivors favor if they chose to take it.
The squad and I ave average to above average loopers at best. We abused the core objective and ran with it. We made many mistakes in terms of looping but BHVR has implemented enough oops cards for survivors can stand toe to toe with some of the greats..
Now for you Scott Saying my experiment was completely meaningless is so Horse****. Most of the killers we faced ya were not the greatest, but we were also sniped and took requests for people that threw every damn thing they could at us. You even took us on when we had nothing and you came into my chat after and said if we had perks you would of been screwed which is true because you have faced us other times and your damn good killer but a squad of survivors abusing how easy gens are to complete with all the 2nd chance perks survivors have. It is almost impossible to keep up. Which you agree to in your statement.
SWF is broken 100% so is omega blink nurse. No one disagrees with that, but it also doesn't take rocket scientists to figure out how to Hold M1 and do skill checks. People try to hold the squad up so high. When I am telling people we are not that great at survivor. We just did the OBJECTIVE of the game and easily walked over killers. This game is designed for casual game play I do not dispute that, but what I set out for all 3 out of 4 have been fixed.
Brand new part - broke the already broken objective more.
2nd Chance perks mainly DS - has FINALLY been fixed
How stupid broken hatch is in favor of survivors - Fixed in PTB coming soon live
The final thing that is still needing to be done - Find a way to prevent what we did from happening. I understand many people do not run into this in matchmaking too much because how crap the system is, but the possibility is there and if BHVR every added rewards or incentives for survivors to actually try to live..... It would be more common.
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EXACTLY!!! you prove my point. We were able to snowball some of the best back in the day because we DID GENS!!!!! not a hard concept bud. Our looping skills suck in comparison because we are killer mains and play survivor very casual but yet apparently we came up with this strat that no one apparently thinks about.. crap what was it again... DO GENS!!! Your just proving my point more. I wish my squad didn't get burnt out on the game but this game hasn't changed much in almost 3 years. They have moved on to other games. Even if they were here all i would have to say is laugh at your pathetic request. You pretty much saying that you need us to play with NOTHING to stand a chance. Which pretty much proves the point of the experiment. The ######### survivors had then and some they have now. Destroys the game play for killers if the survivors are even competent. I appreciate that :)
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Weird it double posted edited this one
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this thread is migraine inducing.
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Oh I agree but also what % of the player base actually plays like that and with that skill level? The games also still improving as we go along which is why I suggested getting some average players to do the same and on both sides.
Ok but against average or even bad killers who don't know how to play you're going to destroy them the same as with any game really. It'd be like me hopping on nurse you could beat me with your eyes closed probably.
Yes and for that i applaud you and I actually liked the BNP nerf although I wish they'd have changed the price. I think once secondary objectives get added things will improve tremendously.
But killers particularly Nurse and Billy will probably have to get tweaked som and yes this will earn me some flak but you at least understand my point.
BNP I never really liked using it and oftentimes would start and a Billy or Nurse would show up next to me with predictable results.
I think it was survivor favored to an extent but most of the time killers found it and me long before I did. It also gave someone who did gens and wasn't an absolute potato a chance at getting out.
I've tested the change on ptb and it's nice and even opened an exit gate and it's super quick. I had a fiendish idea that if you could open both gates the timer would be cut in half but the 2nd gate would take 20 seconds to open to be fair.
I don't think they'll add the rewards stuff etc until secondary objectives come into play and match making and rank are in a better place.
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Killers werent playing smart\optimal. SWF is nothing?
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Swf is nothing but you need them to be perkless? Dude this thread is not a good look for you.
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this post is not good look for you i d say
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You said it yourself. You re not hight level play which was the whole point of this thread. Point i was trying to make here and you refuse to play okay done then.
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This is like season one of the office levels of cringe
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Its easier to deny the truth than to admit that your success isnt based on your own actions. This thread is filled with survivor cope who haven't even watched the videos.
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Are you comparing omega blink nurse with 4 perks to perkless/no items SWF?
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No, Omegablink Nurse is way stronger than that today
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The difference is that Omegablink Nurse requires add-ons and skill while repairing generators while chatting with 3 friends requires neither add-ons nor skill.
...but anyway, what the depip squad really proved is that even if players take the time to get evidence for their points, people will discredit them for whatever reason. It's typical behaviour in this forum.
"Oh is that so? Prove it!"
Then you spent several hundred hours getting that proof and the result?
"That doesn't represent the majority of the playerbase!"
Well guess what, a game shouldn't be balanced around low skilled scrubs. Even if the developers themselves belong to that bracket, it doesn't justify unbalance.
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You may safely ignore that troll smurf account.
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I'm surprised this thread is still going. Those videos are so old and relatively irrelevant now. So many buffs and so on since then. I will say I saw a comment about SWF being "cheat" with friends, which is ridiculous. That's like someone claiming Moris are cheating or playing killer is cheating. It's a game mode. Please get over yourself. Most SWF aren't even competent enough to be a threat. Most play with friends and many don't even bother telling when the killer leaves. Sure you'll definitely get a "No one's coming .-.", but I would argue the lack of that (or requiring a perk) is what makes solo que so frustrating sometimes. You don't get downed in solo que. You may not get saved or you may be farmed and going by some killer mains, they genuinely want you looping them and avoiding them all match. Not sure if some of the people here are self aware.
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No, that's not the same.
SWF is not cheating but (technically) using voice communication softwares is. The rules literally say "Using 3rd party softwares to gain unfair ingame advantages is a bannable offense" now explain to me how Discord/Skype/TS3 doesn't fall into this category? Moris are ingame mechanics but voice communication is NOT a feature.
- You WILL tell your friend who the Killer is
- You WILL tell your friends where that Hex totem is
- You WILL tell your friends where the traps are
- You WILL tell what perks the Killer is using
- not to mention all the coordination it allows for...
Important informations are spread across the whole team which would not be possible without voice communication, that's why it doesn't exist in the game. It's unfair for Killers. And by definition, using a 3rd party software to gain unfair advantages IS a bannable offense and therefore it CAN BE considered "cheating".
SWF =//= Cheating
Using voice communication = Cheating
(and idk why this ######### new formatting system keeps making random stuff bold)
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