The New ‘The Legion’
I personally really enjoy the new legion but i see many people complain about him.
For those players, what makes you say you dont like him anymore? And for what reason?
Comments
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The power is worthless, way too slow, way too restricted to use.
What i loved about Legion was the fast paced " stabbing maniac" that could vault windows and pallets pretty fast to get a hit and then switch targets.
Now, with how slow it is to even do that, you hurt yourself more than anything else.
The only thing that makes Legion playable now is his small size and 115% movespeed, wich is a boring playstyle, i want to nyooooooooooom around like i used to.
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- They removed the speed add-ons, which is a pity because they were very fun
- Their vaults are so damn slow, might as well just break the pallets, for reference (correct me if i am wrong) Myers can vault windows faster than them in tier 3 with bamboozle+fire up with 5 tokens
- Deep wounds no longer poses a threat to the survivors, even playing with new franks mixtape+deep wounds study it still cant do damn anything
- he simply cant catch up to the survivors, he is so damn slow more than two thirds of his power will deplete when trying to catch up to another survivor on his terror radius
In conclusion, there is no longer anything feral nor frenzy about them anymore
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I'm usually against telling people to "git gud", but there's not much else to say to people complaining about new Legion.
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Pretty much same here. I loved to vault over windows and pallets, now, i can't because i am being punished for doing so. And it doesnt net me as much bloodpoints trying to do so, so thats even less incentive to do so.
They just effectivly turned him into yet another M1 killer. While not bad itself, we already have plenty of M1 killers and powers that dont hinder them.
Legion the way he is now, is just going to be used as more proof that the Devs are blatantly ignoring feedback, which i can tell because there were both survivors and killer mains in the ptb saying legions changes were too much.
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I'm really into this change honestly. Only thing I dislike is the bigger terror radius but I can mitigate that through M&A
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Glad to see there are at least some people who are enjoying playing as the new legion despite the questionable changes.
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Why am i getting downvotes for answering a question and voicing my opinion...?
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Because he is just a boring M1 killer now. There is no thrill in Frenzying and playing against him is even more boring than against Wraith or Trapper.
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Reframe from calling it the "new legion" nothing is similar to the legion (mask maybe but really thats all) or "the ghost"
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his power is only useful to get the first hit.
For the rest of the game your power will actively be used against you by good players.
They wanted it that way, that's why they took away blood pools, blinded him coming out of fatigue, and made his fatigue longer while nerfing CD add-ons.
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I really love the changes its how I was playing legion before hand but only thing that I find very very sad is on console it's very hard to adjust as killer I miss hits and I'm hit with that stun and it's painful.
But hoping to adjust maybe I just need to learn how to counter 360s on console better.
I like the movement speed increase could keep pressure on gens with out frenzy.
But still for those that had soild ideas for legion I am sorry they didn't listen and I hope you can still love them and have hope that possible changes may happen at some point.
🐷
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Im fine with them removing the cheesy tactics, but only upping the movement speed doesn't change issues killers had with legion beforehand. Yes they took out the unfair tactics but also didn't add any valid ones to replace them. Every change beside base speed was a change to increase survivor performance/provide a chance not to strengthen legion's.
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There are some things that I would change, like reverting the vaulting speed and recharge time changes, but overall I like how they turned out. I just love zooming accross the map injuring and disrupting everyone.
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My only problem is the devs lied to us. They said the FF bar WOULD NOT be depleted on miss.
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Q: Why don't people like the Legion rework?
A: Because Legion now has half a power.
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Only thing that annoy me is the slow vaulting
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The thing I don't like is basically now the Frenzy is a lot less important/useful. You can't down people with it, you can't use it as often, vaulting with it is slower, and deep wounds is an annoyance at best. I like killers who can use their power a lot during the game, not killers who mostly just regular chase and their power is a bonus thing you use every once in a while.
Trapper falls into that category but I still like him, because his power fits that formula really well whereas the Legion's does not
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I guess people voted you down, because you dared to have fun with pre nerf legion.
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A killer that could vault pallets and windows fast to hit survivors was never going to work. Pallets and windows are the survivors only means of defense and if a killer that doesn't require any skill can just ignore those it won't be a fun experience.
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@gantes Aye you don't see Freddy bitching about his sorry state of affairs 😜
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I'm looking into it right now. It was supposed to only cancel frenzy at one point. I'll get confirmation on whether or not that was changed or if it is a bug.
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Things that made the Legion fun:
- Running really fast in Feral Frenzy
- Vaulting stuff really fast in Feral Frenzy
- Reduced cooldown on missed hits while in Feral Frenzy
- Cold Dirt (because stuns aren't fun)
Things that were changed in the Legion:
- Reduced movement speed while in Feral Frenzy
- Reduced vaulting speed while in Feral Frenzy
- You get one missed hit per Feral Frenzy
- Increased the stun when you end Feral Frenzy and nerfed the add-ons that reduce said stun
And you wonder why these changes were not well received?
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To be fair, everything that made Legion fun, was extremely unfun for Survivors.
Now he's just a mess. I'm not sure why the obvious was never put out. The Legion is simply a failure of design.
Let's hope he gets the Freddy treatment. The fact that Deep Wound was only introduced to counter how powerful a Killer being able to vault windows and pallets is a horrible idea.
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Everything that makes flashlight blinds fun is unfun for killers.
Everything that makes pallet stuns fun is unfun for killers.
Everything that makes gen rush fun is unfun for killers.
Everything that makes Claudette fun is unfun for killers.
Everything that makes Adrenaline fun is unfun for killers.
Can you see why there might be a problem when you use "unfun" as a reason to completely butcher the game? In a PvP game in particular, everything that's fun for one side is unfun for the other; that's just the nature of PvP.
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What @Brady said.
Legion is a failure. A big one.
Honestly, at this point they should just rework him and give him a full overhaul like Freddy.
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Flashlight blinds are counterable.
Pallet stuns can be baited / completely countered by Enduring. Not to mention Survivors get mostly hit through them anyway.
Gen rush is a whole another topic. Currently the only thing that can somewhat counter it is Ruin. But I do agree that is a problem.
Claudette is unfun only on some maps imo.
Adrenaline is not always used as a crutch in a chase. Stop making it seem like it happens every game.
The difference? Legion had no counters.
"JuSt SpReAd OuT" is one thing. What should I do against a Legion that is moonwalking, looking at the ground so my timer goes down etc. ?
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Legion was still a failure and you cannot convince me, or half the community its not true.
McLean in a stream said himself about Legion *not exact words* that it was poor design.
imo, all those things you listed don't have bad game design to it. there's counterplay to nearly all of those, and pre-patch legion was just a mess to deal with.
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If the problem was an exploit, it could've been fixed by just making the timer not progress while in the Legion's TR (which they did anyway). Look at the Entity window blockers, for example. I don't see the devs rushing to just eliminate windows altogether; instead, they're fixing the bug that survivors are exploiting.
That leaves the "unfun" argument, which has nothing to do with how to deal with things and, by your own admission, isn't something you need to butcher the game to deal with.
So why the double standard? How come things that are unfun for killers don't get "reworked" the same way things that are unfun for survivors do? Unrelenting+STFBL combo, the Legion, the Nightmare, NOED, Iron Grasp, and so on were all nerfed (sometimes to oblivion) because survivors didn't think they were fun, even though they all had counterplay.
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Is your argument about fun or about counterability? Make up your mind.
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Both.
Both come into play. Bruh
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So what was uncounterable about the Legion that required them to nerf every single fun aspect of the character? The exploit that could've been fixed by simply preventing the Deep Wound timer from going down within the killer's TR?
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Pre-patch Legion. Fun to play as, ######### cancer to go against. Was uncounterable. Moonwalking, guarenteed chases won, continue on.
Post-patch is Legion in a wheelchair. Super fun for the Survivors, unfun for the Killer. Nothing about him is good.
You think both were fine as design?
I'm lost at what you're continuing on arguing about. Are you defending that all of its good design or?
Legion is trash both ways, making that clear.
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The Legion, like all other killers, had counters. Survivors were just unwilling to use them.
Exploits get removed; you don't balance around exploits. Again, see the Entity blocker.
I'm not referring to the design of the character, that's something you brought up. I pointed out why people didn't like the changes to answer the OP. You brought up "fun". I then addressed that to point out the double standard when it comes to "fun". That's when you brought up the design. Don't pretend I'm defending something I didn't even talk about. If you didn't want an argument, then you should've accepted the answer instead of trying to find an excuse to dismiss it.
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Orion always fight the good fight but whatever , the fight is lost anyway.
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tbh the only people complaining is the ones who where abusing him and he needed to be changed and all those changed is good you should get punished for failure you should not be able to just repeadly jump over every singel pallet as soon as you get freenzy thingy and you should not be able to just look away and make the other person timer go down this change is good nothing else. Nobody liked going against him or play him
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That's an awful generalisation @Jonathanskilz .
While the abuser might be disappointed, if you bothered to read the complains of everyone else, we just don't get why the power is so bad and restricted if it's supposed to not be lethal.
They also killed the fantasy and fun about running around fast as Legion wich alot of us loved, this has nothing to do with exploiting.
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I never exploited the Legion and I'm complaining.
The whole point of the Legion was that he was fun to play as, despite being ineffective at killing. The exploit could've been easily fixed by not making the timer go down in the killer's TR.
And if you wanna talk about being rewarded for failure, then you need look no further than MoM.
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The problem was, that this kind of mechanics were broken in concept. It was discussed before, but Legions core game mechanic was/is lacking counterplay. On paper a fast killer who vaults pallets and stab people sounds good. But it comes with a bunch of issues. Especially because unlike Nurse, the rules of how chase works doesn't change significally for the killer. Nurse is all about predicting survivors movements, muscle memory etc. Legion on the other hand, activates frenzy and is ready to chase and stab like a normal killer without worrying about pallet and vaults too much.
Devs tried to balance it with stuff like giving him less information(scratch marks), deep wound mechanic and an incentive to switch targets (tracking). Problem is, of them is countered by Legions high speed and map design. LOS blockers aren't as usefull on Legion than on Nurse or even other killers. Target switching was countered by easy mending and multiple stabs with the deep wound bar made Legion very time inefficient in a way neither the Survivor or the Killer controls much about. Maybe the killer more, but Legion chases really felt like time predictable downs. No place for the killer to cause the survivor to make a mistake and get down earlier. Or for the survivor to outplay them.
And that led to current changes, with "nerfing" Frenzies direct chase efficiency to add some counterplay. Problem is, that devs overtuned it, I think. Legion needs less power cooldown. And the missed swing penalty is currently too much as it is right now.
I personally think Legion is currently now in a better spot design wise. And we will see how things play out. And if more fine tuning puts him in the right spot on balance, or if Legion's core design will turn out o be unfixable and end with a complete power overhaul like Freddy is getting.
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The whole point of the Legion was just to have fun running around and stabbing survivors, without doing much harm. Survivors never went down from Deep Wound unless they wanted to, kinda like RBTs, and if a Legion just stabbed you until you went down, they would experience multiple stuns in a row and give your team plenty of time to rush generators.
However, survivors cannot accept that killers should have fun too, and thus they DC'd en masse. Can you imagine if killers DC'd when they got stunned or blinded or whatever at the same rate that survivors DC'd from the Legion? Do you think the devs would butcher stuns, etc., or do you think they'd just ignore the complaints? So to reiterate: why the double standard?
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@Plu they might had made him slower but they also made it last longer but at the end of the day he needed fixing and the devs fixed it finally so that he can be fun to go against and play as.
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No, they just took away what made him fun to play as. I'm not surprised you think that's good.
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"And Switch Targets"
That NEVER happened.
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@Jonathanskilz Which brings the question of what is fun for who? I loved the Legion pre patch. I have never intentionally abused chase mechanics unless I was in a foul mood.
Fun is highly subjective my friend, what can be fun for you is unfun for me. And I had fun with a killer who could break the rules because the killer is a teenager.
But now I'm better off playing as Trapper (as I have since I began playing) since at least the Trapper can have some sort of payoff without being completely hindered by his power.
115% movement can only get you so far.
Also do not generalize please, not all Legion play like how you think they play.
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He only needed fixing to the exploits, infinite stabbing that gave you more distance overall and removed the ability to damage DW.
All the nerf we got are too much for what the power actually does.
Fun is so dependent on each player idea of the word that I don't why you people keep using that word, it doesn't excuse anything to what happened especially with all the ignored feedback that happened during the ptb, even my thread was ignored.
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Tunneling is not a Legion problem, you can't blame 1 killer for a playstyle like this, especially when Legion power encourage you to switch targets.
Use your head.
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@Orion personally i dont find it fun holding W and spamming frenzy untill survivors goes down :/
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Then you shouldn't have done it. I found it fun to vault stuff really fast and run really fast, as well as missing multiple attacks on purpose.
The Legion was nerfed in every one of the aspects that made them fun for me, so the next time you say "fun", you should say for whom it is fun.
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Damn, @Orion making me miss the awesome button so much with these on fire posts.
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