Don't you have enough data for MoM?
It's been more than a month most good survivors have this perk after one week or two, the most games within the ranks 7-1 ( for have i have seen ) have at least one MoM. Now will not bring the Freddy argument the play but because you ( the devs) can say " We don't make the same mistakes again " but if you use data from this week you will see what % use have and in which ranks. So can we have at the very least a post that say what you will do for this perk or because it's a killer problem you will just ignore it again?
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#IGNORED
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Only around 23 months until a rework if DS has taught us anything.
Although then it would get buffed again in two weeks after that. Damn.
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That's true
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Noed, BBQC, Billy and Nurse still exist. MoM is there to balance all that krap out.
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Both sides have crutch perks, dbd is a game that will NEVER be balanced. It's impossible to balance a game like dbd. Some things you just have to toughen up about.
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But you can counter all of those things with just the basic survivor and with no perks. You can't do that with MoM and don't forget those things already exist but the MoM it's a whole new problem for no reason.
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@ygnea Name one killer crutch perk that is that powerful and without counter, please.
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Its a survivor sided game with a survivor mains team working as devs, what did you expect?
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Sadly this is the truth devs help survivors every time the can and the only help killer when the Q'a for the survivors are bad. And before the survivors say that they get way more nerf than a killer, trying to make the game fair does not mean it's nerfed.
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Im R1 killer and R1 survivor and don't experience this issue with MoM maybe I am just lucky *shrug* or maybe people are over exaggerating the problem. it could be either but please if you want MoM nerfs why don't you start suggesting how to nerf it?
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Just give it a bit more time. They have a lot they're working on right now so obviously they're not putting every moment of time and every resource they have info one single perk. They already confirmed they're taking feedback, meaning they aren't yet sold on whether it's balanced or not. It takes more than a month to get valid feedback (more than just a lot of killers crying that it's OP), analyze said feedback, and try out nerfs. And the devs tend to wait til something is in the final stages to give any details on it. Just be patient and get over it for now
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Like the old ds ?
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That took a while, yes, but the devs have been getting better at addressing issues in a quicker manner (for the most part)
To reiterate, they're working on a lot right now. Between dedicated servers, Ghostface, the Freddy rework and various other things that haven't been mentioned yet. It takes more than a month sometimes, and small but loud voices on the forums complaining about a brand new perk isn't gonna speed that up.
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Most likely they should have Data available and there to make decisions from, We seen with DS that it got buffed in a matter of days after the rework.
The perk is broken by Design, I find it difficult to believe they didn't know that when making it and wanted it to be OP to sell Ash and chose money over balance. My guess is they're waiting for ash's DLC sales to slow down before touching the perk, if they even do.
Also to anyone saying this perk is fine clearly doesn't understand how game changing a free second hit can be. It's an insta heal that triggers automatically when you should be going down and gives you a sprint burst too, It's one of the best pay offs in the game and there's no counterplay for the killer. If that's completely fine then a Killer perk that insta downs a survivor in the healthy state after hitting them 3 times previously would also be fine?
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The fact that it's taken a while leads me to believe they realize it's not nearly as powerful as bad killers give it credit
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Legion got updated/changed after 4,5 months
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Just stop complaining about something that isnt an issue to be fixed. MoM is nowhere to be gamebreaking it has at worst the effect of 4 more hits within the game. that not an issue as you would see that there are still more than enough killer who can handle this without any complains.
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The thing about data is it takes time to gather, MoM itself may have been out for just over a month but how many players have it on all the chars they play? how many games over all the ranks? how many times does it mean 1,2,3 or 4 survivors escape (not just the person using it as it can affect more than them), how many hits extra per game on average does it add, how many times is the person using it downed shortly after and that is naming a very small amount of scenarios for testing.
Take Legion, moonwalking was in the PTB and was mentioned but it took them almost 5 months to realise it was a problem, this isnt just due to the actual problem but about how the data gathered needs to have a time frame to see how big the issue is and then be analysed, they then need to think about what possible changes they can do to make it more balanced and test each idea out.
its not always as simple as changing some numbers around.
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Yeah sure, like with the addition of EGC they waited for all those stats and numbers to show % on how many survivors' heads exploded with Piggy's RBTs before even considering touching her power.
They also waited for stats to show the insanely high number of people getting trapped in the basement during EGC before touching collision (only on the stairs, of course).
They spent months gathering info on Plague too, before even considering touching her movement speed while charging her power.
And the most notorious case of them all, they waited a long, long time before touching Freddy after release too.
It's not as simple as changing numbers around when the issue affects killers, obviously.
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By reading your response, I can infer you've obviously never played a single match as killer in the red ranks.
And makes me doubt about your survivor skills, too.
In the red ranks a single non-hit, weapon wipe, LOS and sprint burst can extend a chase for 40 - 60 seconds. Half a gen. 3 other guys working on gens at the time means 1.5 gens get done with a single MoM hit. Now consider at least 2 guys have the stupid perk. There you go, game over. And the worst thing is, the killer getting punished for HITTING the guys. Not even punished for whiffing.
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The fact is, MoM came with a money-only DLC. Draw your own conclusions.
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"And the worst thing is, the killer getting punished for HITTING the guys."
Damn, this tilted the scales for me.
I've been 50/50 on this subject and damn, you made a good point.
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What?!?!? 4 hits against good survivors is huge. It's gg. Even 1 hit can change the outcome of a game. You say there are killers that can deal with it, but that's exactly the issue with the perk in the first place. It's completely unfair that the best counter to a perk is to limit your choice to 3 killers. These are the same arguments that get used against NOED, that players get forced to change builds or playstyles based on a perk the opposing side might have.
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Yeah in the initial MoM discussions I was trying to make analogies, and I thought it would be similar to getting 30 or 40 seconds of your gen progress wiped if you hit a fourth skill check. What am I supposed to do then? NOT hit skill checks?
Same with MoM, what am I supposed to do? NOT hit people?
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Perk usage does not equal power
Just because you are not getting your will does not mean devs are ignoring you. It just means they do not share your opinion and thus there is no need to act
Mettle Of Man is still a horrible perk, just use Dead Hard instead
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DS was changed because they wanted mom
not because ds was unfair or unfun.
think about it. Do u all realize how bad It would be if we had prenerf ds and mom.
they probably won’t mess with mom. as it’s intended to be hence the ds nerf
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Each of those instances had a PTB, the pig's change was announced BEFORE the ptb, Plague was tested on the chapter PTB and that is why the change was made, you know thats the whole purpose of having one, the basement any fool can see it could give easy kills and its one of those easy number change fixes as the basement has been in the game since release so they know exacllty how it works and the potential for free kills.
ASH did not have a PTB and was put straight out for sale which means as full product the stats are a lot more widely spread and take longer to gather, its not rocket science.
Players had to purchase them, play the char get the perk and teachable and spread it out, while most players who want to jump into the ptb have lots of BP saved up to get what they need instantly as its announced way before its released, lets not forget the whole pupose of a PTB is there to directly gather stats and feedback so changes can be made, the live game is a completely different scenario.
Are you so jaded towards one side you cant see part of the reason they havent done anything to MoM as yet and need to gather more stats is due to the Freddy scenario? they will not just nerf so willingly as Freddy was a lesson to be learned from and not to be repeated, bringing Freddy into the discussion actualy shows why they shoud have more data to make a proper decision and not jump instantly when people start raging on forums.
If you have a scenrio where you test 10000 players compared to 1 million the results will be a lot different, its not rocket science.
Take of the killer tin foil hat and use some common sense instead.
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I disagree. The first Dead hard of the match will extend the chase for 5 seconds maybe. Ten seconds tops if they managed to reach a pallet or a window with it.
The rest of the match DH can be baited and it'll just give you 1 - 2 extra seconds at the most.
Besides, having DH means no room for BL, SB, Lithe or any other exhaustion perk. Unless a survivor doesn't know how exhaustion works, they won't pack 2 of those any time.
MoM lets you keep your precious exhaustion perk without affecting it.
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Your answer just reinforces my points, meaning they're acting quickly when an issue affects or hyphotetically will affect survivors, with little or no evidence to back it up.
Piggy's nerf: ZERO data needed, no one asked for it, destroys her endgame strenght.
Plague's nerf: PTB data, no one asked for it. How many Plagues have you played against?
Freddy's burial: Roughly one week worth of data. Freddy is the punchline.
Basement nerf: ZERO data. Hypothetically possible to trap people there. This one I'll give it to you, although several other scenarios got indirectly affected too.
Legion change: 3 months of data. Or should I say, of DC's. Legion was a mistake from the beginning, let's be honest.
DS change: Two years of data.
Exhaustion change: Year and a half of data.
Ash comes packed with an obviously OP perk in a money-only DLC, without a PTB. Talk about common sense.
Obviously they knew the huge backlash they would've drawn if they made a PTB, that's why they didn't make one.
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No it does not.
The pigs change was designed along with the EGC and put out on the PTB as it was something they though about when designing it and the implications it could have, the bear trap could guarantee a free kill as it was, its a change that was needed but they should have buffed her in other ways to compensate.
Plague's data was taken directly from the PTB, you know that place where they test things soley to gather information? I have played versus many plagues but thats an irrelevent question tbh as it means nothing in the context.
Freddy I already convered that, its due to the Freddy scenario they dont just jump on things instantly anymore after release and use PTB's, that was also in 2017 talk about living in the past and not seeing how they learned from that.
The basement did not need data, the whole point of the EGC was to stop people from hostage situations, the basement is an area where with the EGC had the potential to grant free kills which is not what the EGC is about, now I think they could have looked at making the change only happen when the EGC became active but in the short term it was a fix that stops cheap kills.
Legion was changed more than 5 months after release, he was buffed prior to that, moonwalking wasnt touched even though it was in the PTB and feedback was given on it, they wanted more data before doing something major hence the longer wait time.
DS was changed around 4 times in that time frame, it may not have been the changes you wanted but over 2 years a every 6 months a new iteration of it came about, thats almost the same time frame as what happened to the Legion.
Exhaustion perks also had changes before they introduced that mechanic and had a couple of changes to it after its release so gain its a work in progress, you know after they compiled data.
Leatherface had no PTB and was released just like ASH with arguably one of the best killer perks out there, your point?
There you go again tin foil hat time on yet again, ASH did not have a PTB like Leatherface as it was a surprise DLC, both of these only needed animations and to fit in with the existing game with no new map to be tested out, again its not rocket science.
The PTB when a new chapter is due not only brings in two new chars along with a new map but also usually have lots of other game changes so your point ASH had no PTB argument actually holds no water and is pure speculation, those who think this way are normally type of forum user who cant see the whole picture and one the devs shouldn't really take note of as they dont think outside the box and jump nerf this or buff that without thinking.
The above shows why they would now rather gather a lot more info before making a change and most of that is due to the fact they jumped on Freddy so hard straight away due to backlash, if that taught them anything it was to bring out a PTB for anything with major game changes, make changes from the PTB they believe need to for balance purposes and once its released apart from major bugs look at the stats for a longer period to make sure they dont make the same mistake again.
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We're really not speaking the same language here. Once again, I'm telling you, they're "fixing" stuff affecting survivors even BEFORE it actually happens, while stuff affecting killers takes AGES to get "fixed".
I'll just talk about piggy's changes, since the rest of the conversation is going nowhere, nor it will.
You're saying they foresaw a "problem" with EGC and Piggy's RBTs mechanism, so they changed how they work BEFORE they implemented the main change, to prevent "n" number of survivors dying from the traps during EGC. They completely rendered her powerless in the process.
Don't you think they already completely and absolutely knew what kind of "problem" would MoM bring to the game? Do you actually think there was no one telling them? They chose to release it that way, because they knew testing it would only bring them flak.
LF got released without a PTB, fine. Another low tier killer with a perk DESIGNED to encourage and reward people to leave hooks. You know, since camping is a problem mainly affecting survivors and their fun.
I don't intend to keep discussing this issue, if you answer I'll make sure to read your text but I won't reply any further. Have a nice weekend.
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this
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Played 11 killer matches this week between rank 11 and rank 8. Saw 3 MoM. All died.
The crying about this perk is nonsense. But, that is what many do on this forum, cry, cry, and cry some more.
MoM is fine, yes it is tough when 4 survivor SWF runs it, but that is still not as bad as when they all ran DS with instant blind flashlights. Get better at hunting and MoM will be less impactful.
P.S. I'm colorblind and have to hunt by motion due to severe color clashing. I can't see scratch marks and gen auras are very hard to see. I main Trapper and still get to purple and red ranks regularly. What's your excuse that makes MoM so bad?
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Remove the nurse and then maybe they can balance MoM
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Nurse is balance the better you are with her the stonger you get
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I love how killers always rebound that nurse is balanced. lol, nUrSe Is BaLaNcEd btw
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Nurse is only strong cause survivors are so dependant on looping to stay alive and she can't be looped by conventional methods.
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When i play survivor i try to hide and when she find me i just run to the closer building most of the time i win those game
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iM a rAnkeD 20 sUrVivoR maIn whO caNt miNd gAme a nUrsE
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