http://dbd.game/killswitch
Minimum and maximum distance between the Exit Gates
The closure of the hatch activates the two gates, the last hope for the last survivor. It must be an unsafe opportunity, but not impossible either. The procedural system must therefore be modified so as to force the two gates to spawn:
1) 48-72 meters from each other with 110% killers;
2) 64-88 meters from each other with 115% killers;
3) 80-104 meters from each other with fast killers (Wraith, Spirit);
4) 96-120 meters from each other with lightning killers (Billy, Nurse).
If the structure of the map does not allow the observance of the distance range corresponding to the killer, the procedural system adopts the immediately lower range.
There is another issue, bigger than the first. The purpose of having two gates with only one killer is that they cannot patrol both of them at the same time: everybody can have their own ideas about the minimum and maximum distance between gates, of course, but the killer's ability to patrol both of them standing still, or moving for a very few meters, is against the design and the logic of having two gates, instead of only one.
What do you think?
Comments
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If there's gonna be a minimum distance there needs to be a maximum too otherwise the killer is most as likely to have no chance. It goes both ways.
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@ClogWench Maybe 72-108 meters?
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As Clogwrench said, it may be very difficult if the gates are too close but it is also basically a free escape when they spawn on opposite sides of the map as well. Something that is even guaranteed on maps like The Game.
The devs have also already recognized these two outlying situations and have decided that they balance each other out and don't need changing. Some games you'll get the bad scenario and some games you'll get the good one.
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@Blueberry I don't believe in the justice of the case: mathematics is a better guarantee. I edited the OP accordingly.
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It isn't a case of mathematics or justice. They just quite simply like the scenario of sometimes it's good and sometimes it isn't.
If you just want to show your case for a distance based on the killer that's fine, maybe it will change their minds. Keep in mind though you are basing this entirely around balancing how well killers can monitor each gate and they have specifically given each killer different speeds because that is part of their balance. They don't WANT all the killer speeds balanced, even if it is in relation to the gates. They simply want some to be better or worse at it, not equal.
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@Blueberry I'll ask them if they like my concept of balance. :)
@Peanits What's your opinion about the OP? Isn't it unfair to have two gates at 48 meters of distance against a Nurse or at 120 meters of distance against a Hag?
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It's just rng baby. That's just how the game goes
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@ClogWench They changed the spawning rules for the Jigsaw's boxes. I'm suggesting to do the same with the gates. Read again the OP: I added minimum and maximum distances, according to the killer's speed.
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I'd like to know who is the brilliant guy who votes down all my posts here, just because I wrote them. Belly fan and no argument, one of the main problems of this community. Is it so difficult to comment constructively? Boh...
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I believe Super Buu said something along this regard.
I think you fail to see the massively unfair advantage a solo survivor at the end has against a killer that can patrol/view both gates while a literal death timer counts down your demise above.
You're lucky if you find a purple key in a box and the hatch before the Entity comes out of nowhere and 86's their ass.
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This isn't bad idea but it isn't perfect either. Perhaps, add a minimum distance of 64 meters and a maximum of 88 meters so the survivor has a chance but not too much of one if they are lucky with RNG. Also, the exit gates should never, REPEAT, never ever spawn in LoS from each other period.
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As for this post, I like the concept of where this is going. While the rough draft is just that "a rough draft" with some time and thinking we can deduce any issues this current suggestion may cause to maximize a balance between all killers speeds and the gates length from one another for each specific killers.
We must also consider certain killers powers as well though, since Billy and Nurse are unaffected by which ever location the gates spawn so killers like these are the hardest to manage.
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@FireHazard Mine is not a perfect algorithm, but it's unacceptable the Hag and the Nurse have the same treatment about the gates' spawning points. A remedy should be introduced quickly, otherwise the EGC for the last survivor would continue to be a death sentence or a free escape.
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I'm sure you'll think of something reasonable.
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I would like to state something. Solo vs SWF has absolutely no place in this argument. Its a 1v1 situation. Unless other members of that SWF are spectating the Killer, they know as much as the Survivor in the game and vice versa.
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Aren't some of these numbers impossible?
Like how Coal Tower is simply too small for Hillbilly & Nurse's numbers.
Or how The Game only allows the top floor to have Exit Gates, removing half of its total size.
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@FireHazard I'm not a developer: I'm just promoting a public debate among the users to solve the "gates issue". All reasonable ideas are welcome.
@Boss Like hooks' spawning rules are ignored, if the minimum number of hooks cannot be reached, even gates' spawning rules can be ignored, if the map's structure doesn't allow a full compliance.
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Sounds weird since they don't work the same at all, but i won't dismiss the idea.
It's something i'd have to see in-game to be convinced on the idea.
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I'm aware you're not a dev, but this is your idea. So like I said, i'm sure you'll think of something.
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Gates feel really problematic at the moment for both sides.
My biggest issue at the moment is that the entire point of end game collapse was to prevent survivors hanging around in the game as long as they feel like to taunt the killer. Now the only difference is that they leave both the gates at 99% until everyone's good and ready to leave and then touch them.
There is no 2 minute "pressure to get out," it's a joke.
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Just to clarify, they decided atm not to change but left the doors wide open for this topic to be revisited. They simply didn't want to change too much right now and await feedback. I do agree there needs a minimum and maybe other things. The Killer can perpetually see the Exit Gate panel and knows when progress is made, basically hand being held mode. It would be interesting if the panel wasn't visible so the Killer has to actually memorize something and it could provide some challenge. The Survivor is time pressured to escape, and if they have invested time in opening a gate and the Killer returns? It's over, the Killer simply has to camp that Exit and guarantee the Kill. There is no incentive for them to chase you or provide some challenge. It's just camp that Gate for the kill.
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Ironworks of Misery: a Nurse could patrol both gates by standind still and rotating her body. That's disgustingly unfair, unacceptable.
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The survivor should not be guaranteed another chance when they failed 2+ times already. They didn't get the gens, their team died, and they couldn't get the hatch. How many more tries do you need? The gates after hatch has been closed should be a long shot for the last survivor, if they want to make it they should have to have a lot of luck/skill
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@Jacoby2041 You speak without knowledge of the specific trial. A killer who can patrol two gates by standing still is as wrong as a survivor who spawns in front of Ruin: just a bad mechanic. The meaning of having two gates, instead of one, and seven gens, instead of five, is to prevent a killer from having the certainty of the victory: no side has the right to win, but both sides deserve fair opportunities to win. The last survivor must be clever to open a gate during the EGC, must be skilled and wise, but even a champion cannot win if the killer sees both the switches from the same position.
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Not every killer is the same and I prefer gates be random. Sometimes its in their favor and other times they are at a full split. Its better that they be unpredictable cause its not always a single survivor killers have to deal with. Even when close together the team can best a killer.
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@DemonDaddy The issue is with the last survivor: I explained it in the post immediately before yours. :)
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I get that, but planning around a 1v1 scenario dramatically alters the outcome when that ratio changes. Even more so when factoring in that each killer brings their own variables . I'm not denying that 2 gates in sight is in the killers favor, but since its randomized egc is only presenting a range of difficulty for both sides. I have opened gates just as much as I have been denied, neither side is overly favored with randomized spawns.
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Gates are fine. Should've done gens
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When I play killer and there is only one survivor left, I close the hatch and let the survivor open the gate because it's pretty stupid how close the gates are sometimes.
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Entita, don't bother.
This forum is just oozing with salty Killah Mainz who pride themselves on destroying the game for 4 out of 5 people with things like CAMPING and TUNNELING because they claim "iTz A LeGiT sTrAt!"
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@DemonDaddy You believe in randomness, even about two gates patrolled from the same position, so do you accept sometimes Ruin spawns in front of a survivor and sometimes it lasts long minutes or do you think a hex totem next to a survivor is a bad mechanic? My answer is the second: no hex totems destroyed in a few seconds, it's unfair.
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I mean at the same time not only does the survivor get 1x free escape with hatch chance. If you particularly fail that the game now gives you a 3 minute timer and 2 chances to get out. I think this is fair enough as is. If not sided heavily with the survivor.
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While I find it hard to compare gates to totems, I do still consider randomness better. Is spawning on a hex great for the killer, no and its the main reason I have stayed away from all but 1 of them (tier 1 devour hope, prior to last change). Where the gates are situated for both parties to see from the start, a hex is primarily meant to be hidden until found. On top of that totem spawns locations are fixed and only the selection is random.
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@DemonDaddy Yes, the gates can be seen by both sides from the beginning of the trial, but the purpose of having two gates with only one killer is that they cannot patrol both of them at the same time: everybody can have their own ideas about the minimum and maximum distance between gates, of course, but the killer's ability to patrol both of them standing still, or moving for a very few meters, is against the design and the logic of having two gates, instead of only one.
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I think leaving it to RNG Is fine, If you make it too short then it'll always be in the killers favor and too far and it'll always be in the survivors favor.
Just look at maps like Lery's and the Game, With how they are laid out it's almost always a 50%+ chance at escape for the survivor which as a third chance is quite high.
If you really want that 50%+ chance though you can always skip looking for the hatch and hide near an exit gate. Sometimes you'll even be out before the killer can get to one of the gates.
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The entitlement some survivors have is adorable sometimes. The problem with trying to design a “fair” EGC gate system is that “fair” is subjective. What’s “fair” to a survivor is not “fair” to the killer.
In a vast majority of these 1v1 situations, the killer has:
- Prevented all five gens from popping off
- Killed the other survivors
- Found hatch first and closed it
And after all of this, they’re expected to give the survivor a “fair” chance to escape. How is that fair to the killer exactly?
Imagine a MOBA game where all of your towers in a lane are destroyed and your base tower is gone, but the team still expects a “fair” chance to defend 😆
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem Your point is this: the killer prevented the fifth gen to be repaired, killed three survivors, closed the hatch, then they deserve 4k. Choose one of the following: 1) the closing of the hatch sacrifices the last survivor; 2) the closing of the hatch powers the gates. If you want the first, be bold and admit it. The idea of the EGC is that the last survivor can escape: it must be difficult, of course, but not impossible. A killer who can patrol two gates by standing still is as wrong as a survivor who spawns in front of Ruin: just a bad mechanic. Bad because the EGC, in theory, allows the last survivor to escape, if they are very clever and skilled, but, in practice, the gates' location makes it impossible, i.e. 2 useless minutes for both sides.
@Peanits Do you think a Nurse should be able to patrol both gates just rotating her body left and right?
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The flaw in your arguement is that it doesn't take into consideration the shape, size, and composition of the map - all of which play into how the map plays for both killer's and survivors which in turn affects how fast a gate can be gotten to.
For example, Sheltered Woods is tied for second place in size - but due to it's wide open nature, getting from one end to another is much easier than a simularly sized map such as Mother's Dwelling or even Blood Lodge.
Then you got the strangeness that is maps like Asarov's Resting Place
Your calculations also fail to take into consideration that the fast killers (Wraith and Spirit) are addin-Dependent to achieve this speeds.
I'm all for exploring the idea and I applaud the attempt - but you need to stop and consider that there's more than minimal distance to think about - there's ease of traverse for the map.
I believe it can be done on a map by map basis - afterall, they were able to achieve pallet count limits on a map by map basis
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Well, more than likely I'm using Billy/Nurse anyways so just how long can you loop me? Lol.
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@Entità that wasn’t the point. A killer doesn’t “deserve” a 4k. They still need to find, down, and hook the last survivor, or wait out the timer. Closing the hatch doesn’t mean certain death for the last survivor, and powering the gates by closing hatch sounds lame as hell, so no thanks to either of those 👍
Ive escaped plenty of times as the last survivor and I’ve died. Doesn’t bother me if I die, I understand it’s RNG and plus the killer has already done their job.
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Still its only a chance that gates spawn close and even if they do there us no garantee that it will be a single survivor trying to open it. If they are that close ensuring you have a partner become a primary concern for escape.
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I've said it before EGC existed, and i'll say it again: You won't be in this situation if you win before the endgame. Do gens, open gate, and leave. Don't tick around to farm or save anyone, don't play altruistically and get hooked for someone else. Win and leave.
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