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Ghostface: Let's Talk.
So based on what we know so far, this is how he functions (these are subject to change, but I doubt he'll vary too much on release):
- He can crouch and move at full speed (4.6m/sec) with a terror radius of 0.
- Survivors must be stalked for 4 seconds individually and are exposed for 20 seconds after the fact.
- Survivors that are in his 32m terror radius who see him for at least 1 second disable his power (so long as they keep him sighted, I assume).
- All of his perks are dreadful and basically a BP sink with no real return (for me, this highlights how out of touch the developers are with how this game is actually played and what is valuable/useless in this current meta).
- Unless his add-ons are ludicrously powerful, he is completely unplayable against SWF. As in literally unplayable. You'll spend the entire game without a power against any team with a sliver of coordination.
Opinions? Thoughts? This is looking pretty grim, and while I'm happy to have Ghostface in DBD, I'm -not- thrilled that survivors have complete control over yet another killer power. Remember Plague? Yeah, me neither.
Comments
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Just for the math: Stalking survivors for 4s allows them to run 16m, which takes 26,6s to catch up, while he only has 20s of exposed.
He seems like a strictly worse Myers overall. First impression is weak.
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Yeah, and that's without sprint burst which is already looking like his hard counter. Most chases against standard killers last at least a minute on average. I'm not fully understanding where they're getting these numbers or what made them think this was even a good baseline to start at.
Baffling. I'm just confused about it is all.
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His powerlevel is probably based on survivors who dont look around and dont loop. Lets see how he plays out, but i doubt the current version will see play after the initial hype, when Myers does everything better.
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To be fair I was also thinking I’m going to run SB on the initial ghost launch bc all the ghosts we’ll get. It’s like legion in frenzy you can literally outrun them. It’s 100% going to destroy his exposed (it seems like it needs to be longer)...which is concerning given also being seen for 1s takes you out of stealth... what happens if survivors start having lookout roles at gens and as soon as one person gets downed/exposed etc people are going to be vigilant like with Myers only ghost has a lot of counters already and not many strengths to compensate. It’s not looking good. But the thing is we won’t know for certain until PTB where people can use SB, practice his power etc.
About the perks I’m all ears (the TR thing is a bit dumb though, it’d be much more practical in general during a chase etc) and tremors look interesting, but I’d like to see the tier values etc.
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What the developers haven't figured out yet is that stealth killers -DO NOT WORK- in this game based on how it is played. Maps are also designed in such a way on average as to make most stealth downs close to impossible against non-potato tier survivors. Know what else makes stealth awful? The fact that survivors cameras are in 3rd person. They have no limited vision like killers do, and thus, if they have any environmental awareness, they'll always get a fairly sizable lead on you in a chase. That's not even factoring sprint burst into the equation.
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Don't like his perks, though I do have some in mind for him, but I do like his power. The only thIng that worries me is the fact that he gets knocked out of his power if a survivor spots him. Seems like an odd choice. I hope they remove that aspect before he releases .
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I would love Thrilling Tremors or whatever it was IF it blocked off currently worked on gens.
What's the point of it? Even if you want to dodge BBQ you just have to stay on the gen until the person gets picked up, and then you have all the time it takes to get to the hook to get into a locker.
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Now, unless he changes fairly drastically from PTB to live (which.. I don't think has ever really happened for any killer in a positive sense), it looks like he'll have the same problem pig does - sprint burst.
Thus far he appears to possess no stall and no map pressure (two key elements of a good killer). In theory he can end chases before they begin, but with the prerequisite that the survivors are completely blind or on one of the few favorable stealth maps (Lerys, for example).
I'm not sure how he'll function against even semi-coordinated SWF groups with his power being disabled at the low, low cost of.. panning your camera in his direction in his TR. Does anyone else have any possible theories as to how he could play out? For me, I figure the exposed effect needs to be increased for sure. What I would change already:
- Increase exposed duration to 60 seconds.
- Remove all 'sound' tells that Ghostface is nearby. Stealth is hardly useful if your enemy is getting sound prompts that 'something is up'. Use your eyes.
- Survivors can no longer disable his power. This has to go or he'll end up like Plague - weak, forgotten, and thrown in the dumpster after the initial hype week.
- For a limited time when coming out of stealth after exposing a target, he receives increased lunge distance for X amount of seconds.
- I'm All Ears: Perk adjusted to show auras of survivors vaulting within killer's terror radius - cooldown 10 seconds.
- Thrilling Tremors: Generators currently being worked on by survivors are blocked instead of those not being worked on. That way, you stall the game, AND know for sure which generators are being worked on.
- Furtive Chase: Gain up to 4 tokens each time the obsession is hooked. Each token reduces your terror radius by 2/3/4 meters and reduces your red stain by 50/75/100%.
Those would be my ideas for a start. He's sounding a lot more threatening compared to his current iteration.
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They're also forgetting about the maps that are very open where he may never have a chance to sneak up on the survivors.
Or SWF groups who dedicate someone who's good at looping to follow the ghost around so he'll never have a chance to be sneaky.
When the ghost goes to take that survivor out they engage hyper-loop mode and gens will be finished within a short period of time.
I think he'll end up being similar to myers where the stalk meter will be filled to 99% and then activated when the hit is guaranteed.
Then he'll be nerfed.
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See this is the kind of stuff that anyone who actually plays the game can not only predict, but actively see as an issue before the content hits live. The smug satisfaction of saying.. "I told you so, BVHR." wears pretty damn thin when you're right every single time without fail. When it becomes routine, and you still have only 3 killers at red ranks, you start thinking.. "Oh, I remember this experience from 2016/17/18.." It's stale. Really stale.
I wish they'd just give us some bullshit overpowered killers that they tweak (within reason) to be competitive and fair for both sides. Right now, they have a track record for releasing weak or useless garbage near constantly despite having all the information on the game itself; how it's played, what perks are used, what maps are troublesome, what the current meta is for both sides, etc.
Frustrating as hell. I want this game to be better or I wouldn't waste my time here. It definitely seems like it has been a waste thus far, though.
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Could you perhaps explain why you feel his perks address SWF issues and which ones? I'm confused.
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His perks may be the worst part, I don’t see using any on any killers.
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+1 this exactly. Maps are designed to where stealth killers just aren't viable against survivors that aren't potatoes. Lots of gimmicks with nothing practical.
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They all look weak to me and none of them address any SWF issues at all.
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Nice. Those sound like good changes.
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Ghost Face is going to bring a lot of chaos.
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I'm not entirely sure I agree with you. He'll likely be figured out as fast as Pig, if not slightly faster since he's pretty straight forward. At least with Pig you can't disable either of her powers just by existing near her.
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good thing over 50% of games are solo (accordings to the stats ) and 2% of actual games are 4 man swf, meaning, your skill as ghostface matters and you'll need to adapt/learn the killer, you haven't even seen him on ptb yet and you're worried hes not nurse tier. Also, plague by all means is not weak, staying exposed vs a 4.6 with tracking is pretty insane. You're not supposed to win everygame, take the outplay like a champ.
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SWF isn't a major issue lol. People CAN play with their friends, if survivors work together as a team, people complain, when killers often say "Survivors need to work as a team to overcome the powerful killer." Stop with the cognitive dissonance.
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Why would having your camera on him for 1 second disable his power? some people have their camera on Myers and have 0 CLUE as to where he is because he might not actually be in plain sight!
And for a stealth killer, losing your tokens that actually make you stealthy if the obsession for whatever reason dies is rather silly. It's terror radius within chase, its not that big of a deal in most scenario's.
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Oh wow, I didn't notice this.
I thought constantly stalking was the reason for the survivors taking his power away but looking at the numbers there's really absolutely no reason have this mechanic.
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"People CAN play with their friends"
I never said they couldn't. You're imagining things that I don't believe.
I don't think you know the definition of cognitive dissonance because that isn't taking place here.
"SWF isn't a major issue lol
If you don't think SWF is a major issue you don't play at rank 1.
"when killers often say "Survivors need to work as a team to overcome the powerful killer."
Saying survivors need to work together is NOT the same as saying they should get into coms to work together. You are using a strawman argument.
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The figures you pointed out regarding SWF was confirmed not 100% accurate by the Devs and they told everyone to take it with a grain of salt.
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Guys.
You do know that he'll be on PTB soon right
So
Maybe
Wait before declaring him dead before he's even out?
I think you guys are overreacting but I'm not even going to theorycraft his power before we can even try it.
EDIT: and please stop proposing changes before you can try him. Some of you sound like the folks asking for the DS timer to be 120 seconds because 60 "wasn't enough to avoid tunneling".
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As I said in the topic post, this -could- change. I seriously doubt it will based on how BVHR has done things in the past, but it might (how often does it, though?).
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Same, kinda Skeptical on his perks and the being spotted element cause if someone is looking in all directions he cant use his power ever lol.
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What I'm hoping is that the drawback of his power was poorly explained. If not, then I guess it's been made very clear that the designers of this particular killer do not play their game. It's not an unreasonable conclusion to draw based on what they've shown us. Unless this is a major prank and Ghostface + his perks are entirely different from what we saw on the anniversary stream, we're kind of SoL.
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He should have a 0 terror radius whenever he is crouching.
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I'm seeing people say his perks could be #########, why? That one perk that blocks Gens not being worked on is awesome. If you down someone when no one is working on Gens then ALL the Gens could be blocked for 16 seconds, that's massive.
They also didn't say if there was a cooldown or not, if you're good enough and enough luck you can conquer an entire team by downing people and constantly blocking Gens before they start working on one.
You got Corrupt Intervention for the first 2 minutes, if you down someone within that time with Ghost's perk as well then every other Gen not being worked on is blocked and BAM you know where the next Survivor is because it's still red.
His other perk that reveals Survivors with a quick action is basically a Killer's version of Alert but meh. I can see this working on 24m TR Killers.
His last perk I will agree that I cannot see much use for it. If someone can explain how it can be used effectively then please go for it.
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The only way the last one would have been anywhere useful is on curren Freddy (not the reworked bull[bad word]) throw it on with the paintbrush sleep the one going to the hook and hook them when they get the obsession then with full stacks tunnel like [bad word] while in chase you would be 0m TR and see everyone in dream no matter where on map try to hide behind that rock 3 ft from me? Nope trying to wall juke me? Nope
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I can't wait to see him on Blood Lodge.
"Oh god, where's the killer?! Oh, there he is, half the map away trying to be stealthy with 3 different people disabling his power all at once."
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I wouldn't go far to say his perks are terrible. But i would say that they fit a niche role except for one of them that can help block gens which is universally useful.
His second perk that reveals i do not see being useful on most killers unless they have a low terror radius already like myers/hag+M&A primarily because most survivors wouldn't rush vault or anything outside the killers terror radius unless they are trying to distract you. Even then because how many large maps there is, unless your able to traverse the map quickly i doubt its uses.
His last perk, I can only really see a few uses. Paired up with RememberMe it can be useful, you got someone on hook? Great, now chase after the new obsession to fill up those stacks quickly. Perhaps if you have rancor and you get lucky you can kill a certain survivor you want dead? Other then that i don't see much use of it.
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Tomorrow is the day of the PTB. Let's see what little we can find and inevitably get nerfed before he goes live. Good luck, guys!
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Either his stalk should be faster or the time it takes survivors to cancel him should be longer. His power only seems useful for one or two people at a time. Also SWF will be annoying AF.
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ding dong u are wrong
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Played against him on ptb as solo. He is a powerless m1 killer cause just panning over him with a camera spin breaks the stealth. They say its bugged but there is no skill need to counter him right now.
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You quite literally just used a strawman argument and a slippery slope , and a circular argument lol, also I do play at rank 1, if Im being outplayed I try to adapt, I don't complain, SWF isn't a major issue, the stats even show that. Also, you should look up cognitive dissonance and a straw man argument. You clearly don't know how logical fallacies work. Rank doesn't have anything to do in an arguement, that's red herring. Devs released stats and even literally explained them to you, stop appealing to ignorance.
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Well, the general consensus on Ghostface is that not only is he terrible, but he basically has no power. So, to get back on the topic of discussing this dreadful killer, I present to you my ideas for GHOSTFACE: Top 5 Killer Edition. These changes aim at making baseline Ghostface as competitive as reasonably possible (as far as maps will allow for non-mobile, M1 killers). The intention of these suggestions is to make him competitive at high ranks and add another potential pick to the killer pool against competent survivors.
Ghostface Changes:
- Stalked survivors gain the Exposed status until they are hooked. This allows for sneaky plays and sudden downs which will allow the killer to gain momentum at a reasonable rate. It also ups the ante of being stalked, since getting away doesn't give you a free pass while the effect wears off. Keeping your eyes peeled for Ghostface is much more necessary after he's gathered the 'intel' he needs on the survivor.
- Night Shroud can no longer be disabled by survivors. The reward for 'seeing' Ghostface is a head start on the chase if he's caught on time, and that's not factoring in sprint burst. Be aware of your surroundings or pay the price.
- Ghostface moves at 4.6m/sec while crouched, losing his terror radius and red stain (FOV remains lower than normal).
- While crouched, Ghostface is immune to all detection perks.
- Ghostface can now stalk survivors running through corn/reeds etc. but not other vision blocking elements (walls, rubble, etc). This helps differentiate him from Myers, who cannot stalk through corn, but who can potentially down multiple survivors with his power.
- The first attack against a fully stalked survivor gains increased lunge range. Again, this helps with getting a fatal opening hit on unaware survivors or those that spot him too late.
- Survivors injured by Ghostface's basic attack have the 'Trauma' debuff applied to them. Trauma decreases a survivors repair speed by 30% over 30 seconds until they are healed. Ghostface's attack has left the survivor shaken and paranoid, incapable of focusing on their task as diligently as before.
- Ghostface no longer gives survivors a noise notification when he enters stalk.
- Stalk time remains untouched.
There. +1 killer to red ranks. The funny part is, despite all of these very powerful buffs, I don't think he'd be good against the best survivors or SWF. For that, he'd need an entire overhaul of his kit, but this was in keeping with the developers vision for the killer (while removing the idiocy).
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his ribbons ruin everything, kill the scare factor 100%
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- No, that makes no sense. Why should it last for that long? If anything it's gonna make the game unplayable as Survivor, especially in SoloQ. Everyone's going to be shitting their pants. Also, Ghostface could just stalk all Survivors and leave them and suddenly everyone is an easy one-shot.
- I do agree that being able to cancel his power as a Survivor is a little weird, so I'm ok with this change.
- Isn't that how it works? I thought it worked that way.
- No. Myers can't stalk through corn. Why should Ghostface be able to? It's a vision blocking thing and it's there for a reason. When you're in the corn, there is legit nothing around you.
- I would support this if hitboxes were working the way that they are supposed to. It's honestly ridiculous because some of the hits are stupid, and we all know about the window vaulting hitboxes.
- I think this should apply only if he one-shots them with his power. Of course, it would have to last for a lot longer. That way they're getting hooked, but also getting a slight gen debuff after they're unhooked if they don't heal right away.
- I mean, I don't know, after all, he can walk at 4.6 m/s when crouched with 0 TR and no red stain. Survivors don't get notified when Myers is stalking them because his TR isn't 0 and moves at a slightly slower speed than 4.6 m/s. Also he's pretty tall. This change is a maybe from me.
Those are my opinions, so please don't kill me after you read them.
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So let me explain why I've chosen the 'until hooked' stipulation on his exposed. In fact, you nailed it - "Everyone would be shitting their pants." Not only does it add scare factor to him (everyone being scared of going down and being super paranoid) but it also adds the ability for him to end chases quickly or before they begin. As the game is currently played, killers have to be able to secure quick downs to be decent if they're not mobile. With both, they're typically top tier (see the big 3).
Without mobility but with the potential to end chases before they begin or at least shortly after they begin, he becomes a seriously threatening presence. That's what this game is missing, at least, in my eyes. I always try and balance for a 'horror' experience, where the killer is a powerful, legitimate threat. This first change is integral to that.
Also, we're allowed to have different opinions. I appreciate your input. : )
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We're allowed to have different opinions. I appreciate your input. : )
Here are two reasons why I think this first change is essential, and you nailed one of them:
- Fear factor: survivors shitting their pants is something I'd love to bring to this game. Enforcing a certain level of paranoia that causes survivors to take the killer seriously is something I will always push for.
- In order for a non-mobile killer to be considered decent, they need to be able to secure quick downs before or during a chase. If they're also mobile, they typically end up being top tier (see the big 3).
- The exposed length is to contribute to the paranoia mentioned in my first point, but also to get survivors out of this 'I'm safe' mindset. Getting away from Ghostface grants you temporary safety, at best. But he has his intel on you, so if he finds you again, he could very well capitalize in a lethal capacity. When he hooks you, you lose exposed and he has to stalk you again, but until then he applies the repair debuff to promote healing and slow down the game should survivors choose to remain injured.
I hope this clarified a bit better.
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We're allowed to have different opinions. I appreciate your input. : )
Here are two reasons why I think this first change is essential, and you nailed one of them:
- Fear factor: survivors shitting their pants is something I'd love to bring to this game. Enforcing a certain level of paranoia that causes survivors to take the killer seriously is something I will always push for.
- In order for a non-mobile killer to be considered decent, they need to be able to secure quick downs before or during a chase. If they're also mobile, they typically end up being top tier (see the big 3).
- The exposed length is to contribute to the paranoia mentioned in my first point, but also to get survivors out of this 'I'm safe' mindset. Getting away from Ghostface grants you temporary safety, at best. But he has his intel on you, so if he finds you again, he could very well capitalize in a lethal capacity. When he hooks you, you lose exposed and he has to stalk you again, but until then he applies the repair debuff to promote healing and slow down the game should survivors choose to remain injured.
I hope this clarified a bit better.
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@BadMrFrosty If we remove survivors looking at him kicking him out of stealth then why would he ever not be in stealth?
And if his crouch is full speed then why would he ever stop doing it out of a chase? And what's the downside to doing it IN a chase?
While it would certainly make him stronger these buffs DON'T lead to interesting gameplay, and that's far worse than any balance issue.
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Hey man, I stuck with the Myers-esque vision the devs had for the killer. I would've given him a different design entirely to be honest. But to answer your question, the reason you'd leave stealth/crouch is mostly to get a better view on some maps/on certain tiles, but otherwise you wouldn't want to leave it - ever. Stealth killer spends most of the game in stealth. Seems fine to me and makes sense.
In a meta where gens fly by, the fact that he can't traverse the maps quickly is already a massive disadvantage. Giving him normal speed while crouched will help a bit here, but it still won't remedy the lack of mobility he has.
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Why play Ghostface when you can play Myers or Pig? Myers can stalk and expose survivors regardless if he is seen or not. Pig can crouch and have zero terror radius regardless if she is seen or not. It is just way too easy to for survivors to break him out of his stealth so he is basically an M1 killer. I believe Ghostface should naturally have a slightly lower terror radius (24 meters) and survivors should be DIRECTLY looking at him for at least two seconds before breaking him out of stealth. Maybe also a little bit shorter of a time to expose survivors? Ghostface just shouldn’t be as easily seen. Even the towering Myers is more stealthy than Ghostface.
Also, Object of Obsession shouldn’t show Ghostface while crouched. It shouldn’t show the Pig’s aura while crouched either.
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