Suggestion to self care?
What if self care only allowed you to heal one full state and you can't self heal anymore, but it still has the 10% medkit consumption reduction?
Comments
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That would be interesting. Maybe increase the proficiency with medkits. Medkits having very little value and can be nulled by a perk is bothersomeakbays35 said:What if self care only allowed you to heal one full state and you can't self heal anymore, but it still has the 10% medkit consumption reduction?
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@akbays35 said:
What if self care only allowed you to heal one full state and you can't self heal anymore, but it still has the 10% medkit consumption reduction?no bad boy BAD BOY
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That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.
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@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I should emphasis that the self heal would be faster than a medkit but for one full health state for yourself and have the medkit efficiency. Yeah but I feel like they are buffing bleeding timers just to counter self heal, there are other ways of healing through bond and pharmacy. I've gotten quicker healing for myself and team mates from that green medkit than from self care. I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
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@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.Oh hell no what about the poor Freddys they have it hard enough time with this perk also. Your helping players heal faster when players land greats lets not make higher rank play harder then it already is. Did you know when the depip squad was running a no perks challenge they found Freddy were significantly more dangerous then the average killer. Ya turns out self care is a super hard counter.
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@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I should emphasis that the self heal would be faster than a medkit but for one full health state for yourself and have the medkit efficiency. Yeah but I feel like they are buffing bleeding timers just to counter self heal, there are other ways of healing through bond and pharmacy. I've gotten quicker healing for myself and team mates from that green medkit than from self care. I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
Empathy is actually pretty powerful on a stealth builds as it gives you the location of an injured survivors letting you know where the killer likely is. Its redundant on swf teams for obvious reasons but nonetheless is insanely powerful.
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What I want for self-care is one of two things:
- Limit the heals to 1-2, and increase heal speed.
or
- Turn self-care into a basic function for all survivors (i.e. no perk required), and severely reduce healing speed. As well, introduce the heal reset mechanic when interrupted.
The first option just plain makes the perk healthy in my opinion. The second option is for the (potentially) overwhelming masses that rely on the perk to the point of being unable to let it go. Regardless, I just want to promote more team-oriented heals over letting survivors keep their ability to be totally independent, as well as potentially increase perk variety. Hell, I'd even say you can even improve this new innate self-heal with perks to revert it back to its original power (or improve it further). Maybe the new Self-Care will remove the heal reset mechanic when interrupted, for example.
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@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
One, no, it's a very standard perk for solo players. Unlike SWF, you can't meet up with people, unless you get lucky. Secondly, there's no point in having a perk that does the same thing (but weaker) than an item. It would be like the sabotage perk. It's already slower, and has more skillchecks than using a toolkit (just like selfcare/medkit). The difference is that sabotage is unlimited, but slower and slightly more difficult, and the item is limited in nature. The changes here basically makes the perk into an item....that takes a perk slot. The entire purpose of it is to be unlimited. Doubly so when someone else could heal you at a faster speed, as a regular action.
And I run empathy when I play solo. It lets me know when the killer is chasing someone (after they get hit), and if they manage to get away but don't have healing, I can head to them.
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@Chrona said:
@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
One, no, it's a very standard perk for solo players. Unlike SWF, you can't meet up with people, unless you get lucky. Secondly, there's no point in having a perk that does the same thing (but weaker) than an item. It would be like the sabotage perk. It's already slower, and has more skillchecks than using a toolkit (just like selfcare/medkit). The difference is that sabotage is unlimited, but slower and slightly more difficult, and the item is limited in nature. The changes here basically makes the perk into an item....that takes a perk slot. The entire purpose of it is to be unlimited. Doubly so when someone else could heal you at a faster speed, as a regular action.
And I run empathy when I play solo. It lets me know when the killer is chasing someone (after they get hit), and if they manage to get away but don't have healing, I can head to them.
You can meet up with people in solo play. A perk called bond helps with that. It's a Dwight teachable. Self Care is a crutch for a reason. People use it while they're getting chased to get another hit in. They use it when they can't find an ally or when they're by themselves in a pinch. It's quite strong, really. I would say that more frequent skill checks would counter Freddy even harder. Having a limit would be good. Like once or twice fully healed if that can even be implemented. Otherwise, incorporating stacks that the survivor can use to heal themselves could also work. If they stop the action, it gets rid of a stack as to discourage them from using it while looping.
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@fluffybunny said:
@Chrona said:
@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
One, no, it's a very standard perk for solo players. Unlike SWF, you can't meet up with people, unless you get lucky. Secondly, there's no point in having a perk that does the same thing (but weaker) than an item. It would be like the sabotage perk. It's already slower, and has more skillchecks than using a toolkit (just like selfcare/medkit). The difference is that sabotage is unlimited, but slower and slightly more difficult, and the item is limited in nature. The changes here basically makes the perk into an item....that takes a perk slot. The entire purpose of it is to be unlimited. Doubly so when someone else could heal you at a faster speed, as a regular action.
And I run empathy when I play solo. It lets me know when the killer is chasing someone (after they get hit), and if they manage to get away but don't have healing, I can head to them.
You can meet up with people in solo play. A perk called bond helps with that. It's a Dwight teachable. Self Care is a crutch for a reason. People use it while they're getting chased to get another hit in. They use it when they can't find an ally or when they're by themselves in a pinch. It's quite strong, really. I would say that more frequent skill checks would counter Freddy even harder. Having a limit would be good. Like once or twice fully healed if that can even be implemented. Otherwise, incorporating stacks that the survivor can use to heal themselves could also work. If they stop the action, it gets rid of a stack as to discourage them from using it while looping.
This is true, but you know what I mean. I've played entire matches as a survivor without seeing another survivor. It happens.
Having a limit would make the perk objectively terrible. Why would I take a perk that is simply worse than an item? A yellow basic medkit would be objectively better if the limit was 2. Yes, if I die, I lose it, and it's weak to franklin's demise, but it would still be better. It would have more charges, and be faster.
Now, something that makes it go slower the more times you use it? That could be fair, and still maintain the integrity of the perk. For example, it starts at regular speed, but each time it is used to successfully heal, it gains a token. For each token it has, self heal takes 25% or something longer, capping at 4 tokens or so. This means that it is still very valuable, but it ends up taking a very long time if you take a lot of hits.
The ONLY reason to run self care over a medkit is because the perk is unlimited. Limit it, and it is functionally useless.
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@Chrona said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Chrona said:
@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
One, no, it's a very standard perk for solo players. Unlike SWF, you can't meet up with people, unless you get lucky. Secondly, there's no point in having a perk that does the same thing (but weaker) than an item. It would be like the sabotage perk. It's already slower, and has more skillchecks than using a toolkit (just like selfcare/medkit). The difference is that sabotage is unlimited, but slower and slightly more difficult, and the item is limited in nature. The changes here basically makes the perk into an item....that takes a perk slot. The entire purpose of it is to be unlimited. Doubly so when someone else could heal you at a faster speed, as a regular action.
And I run empathy when I play solo. It lets me know when the killer is chasing someone (after they get hit), and if they manage to get away but don't have healing, I can head to them.
You can meet up with people in solo play. A perk called bond helps with that. It's a Dwight teachable. Self Care is a crutch for a reason. People use it while they're getting chased to get another hit in. They use it when they can't find an ally or when they're by themselves in a pinch. It's quite strong, really. I would say that more frequent skill checks would counter Freddy even harder. Having a limit would be good. Like once or twice fully healed if that can even be implemented. Otherwise, incorporating stacks that the survivor can use to heal themselves could also work. If they stop the action, it gets rid of a stack as to discourage them from using it while looping.
This is true, but you know what I mean. I've played entire matches as a survivor without seeing another survivor. It happens.
Having a limit would make the perk objectively terrible. Why would I take a perk that is simply worse than an item? A yellow basic medkit would be objectively better if the limit was 2. Yes, if I die, I lose it, and it's weak to franklin's demise, but it would still be better. It would have more charges, and be faster.
Now, something that makes it go slower the more times you use it? That could be fair, and still maintain the integrity of the perk. For example, it starts at regular speed, but each time it is used to successfully heal, it gains a token. For each token it has, self heal takes 25% or something longer, capping at 4 tokens or so. This means that it is still very valuable, but it ends up taking a very long time if you take a lot of hits.
The ONLY reason to run self care over a medkit is because the perk is unlimited. Limit it, and it is functionally useless.
You would take a perk rather than an item to not waste the item. The perk being unlimited isn't the only reason. It's so that it doesn't get hit out of your hands with frankies or so that you don't lose a med kit from using it up or dying with it. I don't think it would be useless if it's limited.
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The point that it makes a medkit useless is ridiculous, it allows people to bring in toolboxes. I like how identity v handled this, self care is the character trait of one character alone. This made for variance as all characters had unique traits. One can vault quicker, one uses flashlights better etc. A character is more than just a skin.fluffybunny said:@Chrona said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Chrona said:
@akbays35 said:
@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.I feel like Self Care allows for more bodyblocking and toxic behavior from survivors since it's so versatile. Plus, no one grabs empathy and it has the largest aura read of any perk.
One, no, it's a very standard perk for solo players. Unlike SWF, you can't meet up with people, unless you get lucky. Secondly, there's no point in having a perk that does the same thing (but weaker) than an item. It would be like the sabotage perk. It's already slower, and has more skillchecks than using a toolkit (just like selfcare/medkit). The difference is that sabotage is unlimited, but slower and slightly more difficult, and the item is limited in nature. The changes here basically makes the perk into an item....that takes a perk slot. The entire purpose of it is to be unlimited. Doubly so when someone else could heal you at a faster speed, as a regular action.
And I run empathy when I play solo. It lets me know when the killer is chasing someone (after they get hit), and if they manage to get away but don't have healing, I can head to them.
You can meet up with people in solo play. A perk called bond helps with that. It's a Dwight teachable. Self Care is a crutch for a reason. People use it while they're getting chased to get another hit in. They use it when they can't find an ally or when they're by themselves in a pinch. It's quite strong, really. I would say that more frequent skill checks would counter Freddy even harder. Having a limit would be good. Like once or twice fully healed if that can even be implemented. Otherwise, incorporating stacks that the survivor can use to heal themselves could also work. If they stop the action, it gets rid of a stack as to discourage them from using it while looping.
This is true, but you know what I mean. I've played entire matches as a survivor without seeing another survivor. It happens.
Having a limit would make the perk objectively terrible. Why would I take a perk that is simply worse than an item? A yellow basic medkit would be objectively better if the limit was 2. Yes, if I die, I lose it, and it's weak to franklin's demise, but it would still be better. It would have more charges, and be faster.
Now, something that makes it go slower the more times you use it? That could be fair, and still maintain the integrity of the perk. For example, it starts at regular speed, but each time it is used to successfully heal, it gains a token. For each token it has, self heal takes 25% or something longer, capping at 4 tokens or so. This means that it is still very valuable, but it ends up taking a very long time if you take a lot of hits.
The ONLY reason to run self care over a medkit is because the perk is unlimited. Limit it, and it is functionally useless.
You would take a perk rather than an item to not waste the item. The perk being unlimited isn't the only reason. It's so that it doesn't get hit out of your hands with frankies or so that you don't lose a med kit from using it up or dying with it. I don't think it would be useless if it's limited.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
The point that it makes a medkit useless is ridiculous, it allows people to bring in toolboxes. I like how identity v handled this, self care is the character trait of one character alone. This made for variance as all characters had unique traits. One can vault quicker, one uses flashlights better etc. A character is more than just a skin.It makes a medkit useless? Do you remember the fact that medkits heal twice as fast as the perk, and with the perk, they go even further. It would be like saying sabotage (if it was more effective than it is now) is broken because it makes the toolbox useless.
And without teachable perks, the game would frankly be far less fun. Far less interesting builds, and far less progression overall. Seeing X survivor SUGGESTS that they very well might be running X Y or Z perk, but they could run any, which is the fun of it. Not to mention, that's the reason killers are allowed to see the survivors, and survivors aren't allowed to see the killer. The killer is locked to one power, so seeing the killer would give a massive advantage to survivors. Hence why it's alright for the killers to see the survivors: nothing is locked to X character.
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I've been feeling that the ease of healing leads to a lot of oft complained about issues (like tunneling) . I'd personally like to see a ptb where injured state actually DOES something to the survivor (like slows action speeds at least) , and self healing is only available with a medkit. I have a feeling Gena would immediately take longer to be finished, and that many killers would be letting a lot more injured Survivors go in order to interrupt gens/chase a fresh one. May be wishful thinking though.0
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I think three full heals is pretty fair.
If you need more than three, chances are said survivor is being very reckless.
Of course, if killers get the buff they need then Self Care can stay as is.
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Never said medkits dont heal twice as fast, but doesnt matter for top tier survivors. Not saying to eliminate teachables, saying to have some way to give characters individual traits. Maybe claudette can selfcare faster and heal others faster, etc. I know how self care affects the game, I didn't say get rid of it. Just saying it would be cool if each character was more than just a skin. And the amount of survivors scene with selfcare is low compared to bbq or revealed through whispers anyway unless maybe nurse but more revealed through bbq on nurse anyway.Chrona said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
The point that it makes a medkit useless is ridiculous, it allows people to bring in toolboxes. I like how identity v handled this, self care is the character trait of one character alone. This made for variance as all characters had unique traits. One can vault quicker, one uses flashlights better etc. A character is more than just a skin.It makes a medkit useless? Do you remember the fact that medkits heal twice as fast as the perk, and with the perk, they go even further. It would be like saying sabotage (if it was more effective than it is now) is broken because it makes the toolbox useless.
And without teachable perks, the game would frankly be far less fun. Far less interesting builds, and far less progression overall. Seeing X survivor SUGGESTS that they very well might be running X Y or Z perk, but they could run any, which is the fun of it. Not to mention, that's the reason killers are allowed to see the survivors, and survivors aren't allowed to see the killer. The killer is locked to one power, so seeing the killer would give a massive advantage to survivors. Hence why it's alright for the killers to see the survivors: nothing is locked to X character.
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I'm glad this post got some more notice, I do have a feeling the Devs are going to be look> @Mister_Holdout said:
I think three full heals is pretty fair.
If you need more than three, chances are said survivor is being very reckless.
Of course, if killers get the buff they need then Self Care can stay as is.
what kind of buffs are killers getting? havent been playing much since I got Dead Cells and Evil Within for cheap.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
Never said medkits dont heal twice as fast, but doesnt matter for top tier survivors. Not saying to eliminate teachables, saying to have some way to give characters individual traits. Maybe claudette can selfcare faster and heal others faster, etc. I know how self care affects the game, I didn't say get rid of it. Just saying it would be cool if each character was more than just a skin. And the amount of survivors scene with selfcare is low compared to bbq or revealed through whispers anyway unless maybe nurse but more revealed through bbq on nurse anyway.Side note, you're doing something weird which makes your posts hard to quote.
My point is that killers are allowed to see the survivors because they ARE nothing but skins. And tiny powers like that would just make it needlessly complicated, honestly.
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What am I doing weird lol. And not really as once again it will add some cool variety. This game gave characters an unofficial class type and if there was an official class type, it would not be so complicated. Identity v is super simple and has specific traits. It isn't that complicated to grasp. It would add some variety as killers have varying traits as well. That's just your opinion and this is just my opinion.Chrona said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
Never said medkits dont heal twice as fast, but doesnt matter for top tier survivors. Not saying to eliminate teachables, saying to have some way to give characters individual traits. Maybe claudette can selfcare faster and heal others faster, etc. I know how self care affects the game, I didn't say get rid of it. Just saying it would be cool if each character was more than just a skin. And the amount of survivors scene with selfcare is low compared to bbq or revealed through whispers anyway unless maybe nurse but more revealed through bbq on nurse anyway.Side note, you're doing something weird which makes your posts hard to quote.
My point is that killers are allowed to see the survivors because they ARE nothing but skins. And tiny powers like that would just make it needlessly complicated, honestly.
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@Chrona said:
That is the kind of nerf that takes a must-pick, and turns it into a never-pick. If I remember correctly, even the highest one heals at about half the speed of a common medkit. It's a very good perk, no argument. But I feel it is relatively balanced. I would say, at most, more frequent skillchecks, which would give survivors more of a chance to mess up, and end up notifying the killer.Dont think that SC is balanced just because you are not directly impacted like DS. SC enables the survivor to be insanely time efficient because they dont have to search each other to heal up.
Try palying solo survivor without SC, you will end up playing no mither without its bonus basically
The fact that 99% of survivors use SC should be reason for a decent nerf already
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