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Please undo the vault changes...
I like everything with the patch... but the vault changes are bad, i get the idea. but noone asked for it. They suck, and i hope you revert it
Comments
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The vault changes are the first step in killing infinite loops, sorry, but thats the direction the game is headed. If you already have a problem, you are going to be very unhappy as the map reworks start.
Edit:Also, a LOT of people have been asking for this actually. These loops need to be addressed, period.
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i'm okay with the reworks, but vaults was never complained about. and now its #########... if you dont like windows... bring bamboozle
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the problem with this is that it ruins tons of loops that are not infinites
instead of fixing the problematic loops themselves they made a catch-all change that impacts survivors extremely negatively
it's a bad change and i hope it gets reverted
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What was the change? Was it that thing that involved being able to fast vault at a very tight angle?
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To my knowledge these changes were made because people were able to angle themselves in a way that would still allow them to fast vault areas where they weren't supposed to in the first place. Although I can see the possible frustrations with this change, I don't think it's a big deal.
That being said, with how I understand it perks like bamboozle and mechanics like entity blocker & bloodlust were all bandaid fixes to problems that couldn't be addressed right away such as the maps which was why when a lot of problematic maps got fixed up, bloodlust got nerfed. You also shouldn't be preaching for people to use bamboozle either because although it helps with certain loops, it also deletes gameplay at otherwise balanced loops such as the jungle gyms (LT walls, Long walls, etc).
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This is like saying always bring "Calm Spirit" because you don't like the doctor screaming, despite not always having him.
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The entity blocks windows after 3 vaults... you have a perk that blocks it if you vault... They are reqorking the maps to make loops smaller... and now they break fast vaults.
Its the right direction to take if they want to kill their game. With a vault change noone asked for, they nerfed something that didnt need nerfing
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Blockers have recently been bugged. Bamboozle is a waste of a perk slot when killers need other things to compensate for that particular killer's weakness. The whole angling thing is going to suck for me on ps4. Some people actually needed it to be generous because of other reasons.
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This blade cuts both ways.
DS screws killers that don't tunnel, too.
Legion nerf screwed killers that didn't abuse the mechanics, too.
EGC screws survivors that didn't troll and were jerks, too.
EGC screws Piggy players, too.
And so on.
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what exactly is changed with the vaults? i haven't noticed anything.
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and i think they should fix pig, and make a change to ds... But it seems like you're saying "If you screw something up for killer, instead of fixing it, just screw things up for survivors"
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this isn't really a legitimate argument regardless of the validity of any of these points (and i don't really agree with any of them, to be honest) because breaking something else to add to the pile isn't the solution either way
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What I'm saying, and I'll have to spell it out to prevent misunderstandings, is this:
Real, fair, effective solutions to problems in this game take a bigger amount of work and are not preferred over:
- quick, unfair, ineffective and partial solutions, which have been the norm for a long time now.
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Now, my key point is that I understand why the change was made as the areas that had a wall infront of them were not meant to be fast vaulted from those sides to begin with. It's a logical change and I'm sure when we see those map reworks then we will likely see some of the non-problematic loops be changed as needed. That being said, for the actual broken loops my point was that a perk or mechanic shouldn't be needed to deal with them as not only should those loops not exist, but the bandaid fixes usually also punish people for just being good at using actually balanced loops.
To be fair, everything on that list was better for the health of the game itself.
Yeah, not everyone abused Legion but they still had an unintended playstyle that needed to be patched out and so they did exactly that and buffed the intended playstyle. With that being said, I believe now Legion is in a spot where it's much easier to know where to change them from here.
DS does need some adjustments in my opinion, but it's way better now than with the old DS so I don't really mind if I get hit by it every now and then.
At first I was upset with the pig changes but at the same time, like many of these other changes they were done with the health of the game in mind to avoid situations where you were completely powerless as unfair mechanics or tactics were used to guarantee a win in those scenarios. Not everyone will win with these changes, but overall it makes the game way more enjoyable for a larger group of people which is a smart thing to do. I'd imagine the vault changes are in line with this and obviously of course it would make sense to change the balanced loops with this in mind as soon as the map reworks start going.
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Fine, that's your opinion.
I typed what I think it's happening in the game. Not what I would like to happen, or my idea to balance it, or my wishlist. Whatever.
"The blade that cuts both ways" is meant to represent the seemingly preferred method of patching problems with band-aids, over the more effective way of fixing broken stuff by reworking chore mechanics in the game.
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right, but even if i agreed that "the blade cuts both ways" (and i don't), that doesn't mean vocalizing complaints about this specific change isn't totally fair and justified. they've even indicated that they're looking at redesigning maps, and they've mentioned a desire to change problem windows for a while now. with that in mind, this change seems very out of left field
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They changed vaults a while ago so they're split into slow/medium/fast vaults. Slows vaults are the stealth vaults, medium vaults happen if you're running but don't have enough momentum to jump quickly, and fast vaults are for if you're running directly at a vault for at least 3 meters before hopping it.
Fast vaults were bugged since this change, and could be used in far more circumstances than was intended. Specifically, you could turn and trigger the vault in such a way to go through it at full speed, even if you were running perpendicular to the vault before hitting it. This artificially extended a lot of loops that the devs have been trying to make less problematic.
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Get used to getting BHVR'd if you intend to play this game for long
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oh don't worry i've been used to it since i got bloodlusted at my very first pallet so very long ago
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The vaults only count if it is in a chase. This is why this change is being made.
You could fast vault in areas you weren't supposed to, this lead to breaking the chase for just a moment, which resets the window blocker, creating an infinite.
McLean also said that these spots were always intended to be medium vaults, and that this was an EXPLOIT. Whether or not anyone asked doesn't matter, it was unintentional so they fixed it.
Funny how you tell people to bring Bamboozle. Why don't you bring a perk like Resilience then?
Telling someone to bring a perk to fix ######### up gameplay mechanics isn't the answer. In fact, it doesn't solve jack #########.
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So why not just fix those areas then? why break every other vault because of that?
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This doesn't change fast vaulting in areas that you normally can fast vault.
You literally just press space half a second before you hit the wall and you get a fast vault.
This change hasn't affected my gameplay whatsoever, because I never waited until I touched the wall to vault in the first place. You have a good full second the prompt appears to get the vault.
Explain to me how this breaks vaults? Are you upset you can't fast vault from a standstill anymore or something, something that you were never meant to do in the first place?
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you do realize that the angle you would get a fast vault by was changed right? now you have to be almost at a 90 degree angle to get the fast vault... I agree that you should get a fast vault if youre too close ofc, but they didnt need to change the angle.. The meat-tree vault could be fixed by just making the wall a bit longer, then you wouldnt be able to fast vault. But instead of doing small changes like that, they change the vaults itself. Thats why i think its broken. They dont look at the actual problem areas, they break everything else to make it seem like its not broken
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The angle was changed like, a year ago. They didn't adjust the angle in this patch.
This change doesn't affect normal vaults, no matter how much you act like it does. Vaults that you cannot get fast vaults anymore were NEVER supposed to have them in the first place.
If you can't fast vault, you either aren't supposed to, or your angle was bad. Two different issues.
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