Ghostface has anti-fun mechanics
Ghostface was weak on the PTB and buffed up (which was needed) but now that he has been live for a bit I wanted to talk about some of his mechanics that seem to be unfun to play against and can and will be abused as more players figure him out and get more games on him similar to old legion. the mechanics I'd like to point out are
- Stalk progress doesn't decay- When Ghostface Stalks someone and either gets taken out of stealth or loses the person their stalk progress doesn't decay. meaning he can 99% the progress on someone and pop it in their face (similar to Michael). Which isn't that much of an issue on one person but if he was to 99% everyone and one shot them all that can get quite annoying where as Michael can only do it to one person. I think either the stalk progress on everyone should go away when he hits one person or stalk progress decays after a short period of being out of chase or when not being stalked. the progress would then decay until it is at 0% or until the survivor gets back into chase or gets stalked again.
- He can stalk while survivors are knocking him out of stealth- This is the bigger issue I see with his kit along with the next point as well. He gains progress towards stalking while survivors are knocking him out and with some addons he can almost get the full stalk off in the time it takes to knock him out. Why try to add that kind of counter play to his kit when it only seems to hurt survivors for attempting it? they stand still or try to take the time to put him in the center of their screen only to be exposed by the time they are able to do so and knock him out of stealth? Trying to run away only delays the inevitable similar to how old legion worked. you can run away to try to mend but eventually you are forced to stand still and mend while legion freely downs you. Or in this case Ghostface follows you getting bits of stalk progress each time until you are exposed. Pausing the stalk timer while being knocked out of stealth not only would improve game health but would help strengthen the stealthy stalking assassin fantasy Ghostface is meant to have.
- He can stop the knockout timer while keeping stalk progress- This is the part I find most frustrating as I cant find a way to fix this part of his kit to make it feel better to play against. Say Ghostface is lean-stalking you around a corner and he starts to get knocked out by you. he is able to just lean back behind the corner and keep his stalk progress and then poke his head back out and rinse and repeat until you are exposed. You could tell me to run away but then it leads back to the "Legion issue" I talked about in point #2. Not to mention he can gain stalk progress from you in positions where you cannot break him out, making the counter play low again.
This is my current frustrations with playing vs. him and It's possible I haven't figured out all the possible counter play but I think these points will be issues down the road as players figure out his mechanics more in depth.
Comments
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I agree with 2, though not 1 and 3. Stalkers dont keep stalking their prey when they've been spotted. Michael's an exception, since he's watching survivors and can't give a damn if they know he's there.
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I personally don’t think he is very fun to play against. I can’t really say he needs any sort of nerf though. He isn’t overpowered, he can be looped like most other killers.
We aren’t always gonna see Ghostface either. People will revert back to their basic Billy, Nurse, and Spirit within a week. Ghostface is not very viable in high ranks.
I’ll just roll my eyes and scoff the same way I do when I get a Legion.
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You need to break line of sight for the majority of your body then he can't actually stalk you while you break him. The key to countering ghostface is hyper vigilance. Once you know it is ghost you've got to prepare in advance. You're effectively playing spy vs. spy and need to be the better surveillance operative.
A big part of what the devs said they wanted was for ghostface to be able to reposition to get his marks. In PTB it was impossible to do until they made the changes. They want him to actively use the leaning and even made it so stalking is faster while leaning. As for number two, that's a mixed bag as people are having wildly differing experiences. I can break ghost while running as long as I don't need to make a turn. You're seeing a lot of footage of high rank players breaking ghost constantly and others not breaking him at all. You need precise aim which requires you to know the exact center of your screen. A lot of survivor mains don't because nothing in the game requires them to aim until now. People who have experience on killer are having easier times. No matter what you're always going to be in a "delayed inevitable" situation.
We tested decaying stalk and it was a messy interaction. Survivors who couldn't break him instantly would just run and all the stalk would be lost. Ghost 99ing someone's stalk is fine. It isn't exactly game breaking and why should he be discouraged from optimal play at loops? Myers' isn't and he can drop your whole team on one tier 3 pop. While it is rare Ghost will ever mark all 4 survivors and then drop them as he only has 45s and can be hidden from just like Myers. You want to see ghost with a stealthy assassin fantasy, but part of the fantasy is stalking people from places they can't adequately protect themselves. If that's the fantasy and he gets in that position then he's doing it just right.
You also have to take into account that if someone gets marked and downed Ghost is out of stealth for 30s at base. During that time he's limited to just basic attacks and crouching. His basic attacks also remove any stalk he's got on you should you get hit. So, if you're healthy a counter is to force him to m1. You get a speed boost, lose stalk progress and break his stealth.
Post edited by ReikoMori on3 -
Agree. I am not saying he is OP like something crazy but what I rly dislike is how he can easy stalk you even when you directly looking at him or in chase. That's NOT stealth, that's like better Myers. It feels so bad when he can IN CHASE just right away one shot you when he is supposed to be stealth killer. It's like better Myers then.
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I agree with Reiko up there, when I play against Ghostface I can break him out pretty easy because I know what I'm doing and even though I get Exposed during that time sometimes it doesn't matter because I am a Survivor and I can loop him.
When I play Ghostface I get varying instances of people breaking me out, a lot of times it's easy because I can't find a good vantage point most of the time. Other times it is harder for Survivors to break me out and it doesn't happen at all during other matches. This is all attributed to Survivors needing to practice.
Your points sound solid but I want to go to Myers for a second. Your argument is that you can stop his ability but he can stop you from stopping him lol Well you can do the same thing with Myers. You're both out in the open and you're being stalked but you hide and deny him the stalk. You can hide from Ghostface too and just like Myers, in the end it doesn't matter how much you hide you'll eventually get Exposed. But you're not complaining about Myers. Both GF and Myers can give you a surprise Expose when you least suspect it, the difference is that if you can force GF to hit you out of Stealth you're fine, you can't do that with Myers because he'll just stare at you.
I think Ghostface is a balanced Killer until that Hotfix screws him over. Survivors have all the tools they need to get away from him, being a good looper, don't be stupid, make smart choices, etc. Where as Survivors need to react to Killers, Ghostface reacts to Survivors because his ability is completely linked to their skill. I have been Exposed several times by many Ghostfaces and managed to escape the timer by clever movement on my part.
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He's quite fun to play as and against. Definitely doesn't need any nerfs or "adjustments".
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Make survivors cringe, rage and cry from frustration is what entertains me the most. Don't change GF please ;-)
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Survivors cant see stalk meter - only when they are exposed already.
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People be complaing about ghostface when he is literally the same as michael myers but can only stalk people individually smh.
I don't see people ever complaining about Michael Myers power Evil Within, it is very much the same as Night Shroud.
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Strange how the Shape has the exact same mechanic and less counterplay but has never been mentioned for "anti-fun" mechanics. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the Ghost Face being anti-fun and everything to do with you being punished for misplaying against the Killer.
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No, shape is supposed to stalk people all the time, any time, in chase or not and also it takes longer to stalk for him being able to one-shot, also he have it LIMITED, so he can't tier III all time. Ghostface can and he can even faster level up one-shots than Myers. Ghostface is about stealth, not about stalking in almost open-space.
That anti-fun aspect comes when you have "counter-play" to looking at him, but that doesn't work sometimes so you can get one-shoted even if you looking at him all time. That's why it's anti-fun.
I saw clip of video where both ghostface and survivor were in corn fields within each other like 4 meters away. Survivor was looking at Ghostface all the time, still that survivor couldn't stop it from happeing and got one-shot anyway. That's why it's unfun, because this is not how it should work.
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I disagree.
If he's focusing you. Then it's your job to distract him. Break line of sight, hide, and loop. Unlike Myers, he's not a global threat once he pops that exposed on you.
Nerfing anything in his kit would make him just Trapper level of garbage. He's already not viable in high rank games anyways.
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You know absolutely none of this matters, he could have perma-exposed and he is still an m1 killer, with a fancy gimmick of removing red stain. He has a harsh cooldown too. Hes strong, probably stronger than Mickey. (Who exposes the whole team, btw, and can do it for the entire game with a tuft. When you think about it, as long as tuft of hair exists, the fact that you have any way of stopping the expose at all is enough. If you get exposed... just hide/run awaay/loop him. Its not like Legion, who can vault pallets and dog someone across the map to get a down, GF is vulnerable to the same things that almost every other killer is.
He still has 0 map control, and hes fun, but in no way opressive. The onlypeople whining are those that can't loop or do anything in chases.
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