Is it possible to alter the map RNG based on what Killer it is?
Anything is possible, but could that be a thing in DbD? Having what Killer is played determine the map's RNG in pallet spawns, tile setups, ect?
In thinking of how DbD could be better balanced I had an idea that a universal map RNG isn't really working. Nurse can do well near anywhere but other Killers often fall behind based on a number of things. How good Survivors are is one massive factor, but the map itself is in my opinion the biggest reason. It takes mid/low tier Killers too long fighting the map instead of killing Survivors. So I had a thought of adjusting the map RNG based on what Killer is in play. Or based on their "skill level" seen in the Killer selection menu.
If the Killer is stronger than average, maps spawn Survivor sided. More pallets, better loops, more soft cover to hide in, the map just spawns favoring the Survivors to bring more challenge to higher tier Killers.
If the Killer is simply average, the map spawns neutral. Not really favoring either side.
But if the Killer is weaker, the map spawns in the Killer's favor. Less total pallets, less soft cover to hide in, and shorter loops to give weaker Killers the edge they might need.
Instead of trying to balance EVERYTHING at once, something that often isn't possible anyway due to how different some Killers play and how many of them there are now, section it off into manageable chunks. Making a map balanced for Nurse is nothing like making a map balanced for Trapper. It's the same for comparing most Killers, their needs in pros/cons/counterplay are just too different.
If the map spawned according to the Killer, then more Killers could be played as more of them could be viable from not having to deal with map RNG their powers can't deal with.
Comments
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@Chewy102 Honestly, it sounds like a really cool idea. Although it sounds ideal, something tells me there might be something missing or not quite right. I agree that some killers adapt to many situations way better than others, but it'd somewhat of a shame if someone who mains possibly Trapper or Wraith wanted a good challenge and can't because the maps that spawn are always consistently easier. It could be an option maybe? I'm not sure. Regardless, it's a pretty cool idea.
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It sounds like a good idea.
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I would like something like this but it should go by good/bad maps for a killer. For example, every map that is not Macmil or Autohaven are bad for Huntress, so every map but those should have killer favored RNG if it is Huntress. And then like, Doc is borderline OP on Game, so it should always favor survivors if it's Doc. Something like that.
However the issue is, how do we determine which maps should favor which killer/survivors and to what extent should they be favored. In that sense, I feel like something like this would be impossible to implement in a actual fair way.
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It is more to standardize difficulty between the Killers. Currently, playing a high tier Killer is more easy than playing a low tier Killer. In an extreme example, a good Nurse will dominate a game compared to a good Freddy struggling to land a single kill. Both players can be equally skilled, but the Killers they play as chooses their challenge.
But if the map RNGed to somewhat even that challenge out, then maybe low tier Killers would be played more often in higher ranks. And then the ranking system could be what defines how skilled the players are instead of what Killer they play as.
Trapper for example needs to spend some time setting up traps. That's time spent to "maybe" get a reward and is time you often don't have to start with. Trapper after setting up still needs to run though loops, breaking pallets, and landing hooks. But if you spent time early game setting up, then mid/late game you can't defend anything with gens spread over the map. And trying to setup mid/late game is even harder as your traps can be disarmed faster than you set them, can be destroyed for a while, and you still have to travel the entire map multiple times over to gather the damned things.
If Trapper had map RNG that spawned less pallets, or more in his favor as a slower paced Killer, the time he spent setting up is worth a LOT more! Less places to be looped means your traps see more use and the time spent on setting traps isn't really wasted when there are still 20 other loops right next to them.
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That's why you don't do it by individual Killers and by individual maps. You base it around the devs picking if that Killer fits into strong/average/weak groups and balance the map RNG around those groups.
In a VERY rough example not based on anything but to give an idea.
High tier Killer played, spawn 25 pallets.
Mid tier Killer played, spawn 20 pallets.
Low tier Killer played, spawn 15 pallets.
High tier Killers should be strong enough to deal with more pallets and loops so they get more of them to give Survivors more chances. But low tier Killers can't deal with that many pallets due to any of several reasons, so they get less pallets to give the Killer more chances.
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I totally understand everything you're saying. I absolutely agree it'd be definitely better for a Trapper, for example, to have these nicely generated maps. An option would be nice to have, though. Not sure if they'd do your idea, and if they did do it, I'd imagine they wouldn't give an option.
Regardless, anything that makes low tier killers appear in high ranks more often will put a smile on my face, and if your idea helps with that, I'd be happy to see it :) I did hear they wanna do ranks based on Killer and Killer, instead of by Killer and Survivor. On top of that, I think it's also based on Wraiths vs Wraiths, and not like Wraiths vs Nurses. I feel this has more unforseeable consequences than your idea. Just like you said about how a good Freddy needs to catch up way more than maybe a good (or even #########) Nurse main, I feel the ranking system BHVR is striving for might see more Wraiths/Trappers/anybody in red ranks, but how are they gonna go against good survivors with good loops/map RNG? We'll see how it all goes down. Your idea would be really cool to be taken into consideration.
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One of the biggest issues that's obvious already is that Nurse is mostly strong because she ignores pallets entirely, or uses them for a free hit. Adding more pallets to a map doesn't make her more balanced.
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It's really needed. Lery's for example, it needs less rooms for Billy to use his mobility but for compensation some more pallets for survivors. That would balance it out around one specific killer
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Nurse is the odd man out. Can't really do much to balance a good Nurse other than accept death. But every other Killer in the game can be balanced around adding or removing the total amount of pallets.
Billy can deal with more total pallets from his chainsaw. But Cannibal has a chainsaw as well, but can't really deal with higher number of pallets from having weaker mobility when using his saw. Having both of these Killers face the same map RNG isn't really balanced at all as one is going to be clearly stronger than the other. Making the Cannibal less and less played the higher in rank you go.
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That's actually not a bad idea, I think it could even the odds a bit for lower tier killers. However, I'd prefer they just made weaker killers better directly as opposed to giving them slightly more favor in maps. I want a killer to be good and viable for who they are and what they do, not for what effect they have on the map's RNG
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That isn't really possible though. Killer powers are just too different for them all to be equal. It would end with less unique Killers in total. And the uniqueness of Killers is a main factor in DbD.
Plus that's a ######### load of work attempting to balance, rebalance, and rework each of the 16 Killers over and over and over again as the game progresses. Work smarter, not harder.
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This would be awesome, but I doubt it would even make it to PTB because that would be hell to co
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But then you are disproportionately affecting killers. Huntress is a top tier killer but only when she's on a good map. If she gets a bad map she becomes a lot weaker. Or Billy, who is a strong killer on most maps, would be punished EVEN MORE on Lery's or Game. And then a weaker killer like LF gets a bonus on a map like Shelter Woods where he's actually pretty good because it's a good basement map.
It would need to be on a killer-map basis, not just purely the killer.
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I don't think you understand just how much work you are asking for.
If you balance each map for each Killer, then you would have to adjust each of the 27 maps for each of the 16 Killers. That's 432 combinations right there of what Killer and map it is! 432 different games of gameplay you have to account for in overall balance. It doesn't even take map RNG into factor at all either that drives the total possible outcomes into the tens of thousands.
It's an insane amount of work and just isn't going to happen. Even if you ignore map RNG, that's still 432 combinations of map/Killer and you'd have to adjust balance for EACH ONE if you go by individual Killer.
But if you group the Killers into the 3 top/mid/low tiers and balance around those. Then it is just 81 possible map versions you have to deal with. You don't even have to work on all 81 maps either as the game already has systems in place that automatically adjusts the map. All you would need to make is 3 forms of map RNG and link the Killers to those based on the devs/communities tier opinions and current meta. Then simply let the game do the work for you and adjust as needed.
And if there happens to be a Killer that doesn't do well in a certain map. Deal with it. RNG is RNG, Survivors can't pick what Killer they go against so the Killer shouldn't be able to cherry pick the map. But if you really need to have a certain map or avoid another, just use a map offering like everyone else.
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I think about conditions for pallet spawn.
Atm its just minimum amount of pallets, based on formula, as i know.
So, adjusting pallets amount ll not be that hard
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One thing, only one thing...
They're already going to cut down on the longer loops.
That's it, continue without me.
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