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Do stuff to ACTUALLY punish face campers.
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They get the satisfaction of buying their (smart) team mates enough time to get out, making the Killer lose.
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Gets a lot better at higher ranks, but get out of those low ranks can be tough, especially when you haven't played for multiple rank resets. Between bad survs that aren't doing gens when the killer is clearly occupied and camping/tunneling killers. People often suicide when it is clear the killer is camping/tunneling. Even if you are decent and don't get hooked, before you know it, it is just you and the killer.
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Then the devs didn't think those ideas through. Like they don't take affect if another survivor is within a certain area of the hook. Idk what ideas they tried though, tbh.
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For the devs, 'thinking an idea through' means listening to survivors, who were of course all in favour of it. Killers warning that survivors exploit every flawed design that they find was ignored; until the devs did a PTB on it and survivors did exactly what killers said they would.
This remains the case and if the devs won't listen to killers, they need to at least stop listening to survivors also.
When it dawned on the devs that punishing killers for tunnelling and camping was fruitless because of the way survivors would always try to abuse it, they turned to the carrot rather than the stick. Survivors still don't seem to realise how it was their persistent feedback on hook-camping that led to BBQ being introduced as an incentive for killers to leave the hook and to not tunnel until they had hooked everybody at least once.
Survivors screamed the house down about BBQ for well over a year, neglecting to use their own counter-part to it: WGLF, giving them the exact same benefits(save for what they already have in their base kit, aura-reading the hook) and working in conjunction with BBQ. They had asked for this feature unwittingly and then complained about it. Their inability to understand what it is they actually want is a key reason why the devs must stop listening to them. They'd get better informed feedback by shaking a magic 8-ball.
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This has already been tried in the past and it failed horribly because the survivors abused it.
The solution isn't to punish camping. The solution is to understand WHY killers camp and fix that. Camping is a symptom of the actual disease which is game imbalance. Balance the game, fix camping.
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I still don't know what "it" is so I can't comment on that.
Exploiting is not a survivor vs killer thing. There are players on both sides who do it.
I don't understand why you speak as if survivors are one monolothic being. They "don't know what they want" because they're all different people with different wants.
With every change there will be some kind of reaction or adaptation to it. People will invariably complain. Either because they didn't foresee the consequences or because they didn't want the change to begin with. I don't see the point in creating some narrative and lumping all survivors or all killers into one group.
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SImple, don't stay near him will he is "face camping", that way he doesn't pip, you pip and you won't have to deal with him once you are ranked up
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As someone who is ACTUALLY in red ranks as Surv, this is blatantly false. You very very very rarely find camping Killers in red or even purple ranks unless your team is being toxic hook circling altruistic jerks.
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I think your reply is very reasonable, so I'll drop my usual pretenses.
I have an issue with the standards many people who play this game adopt when they try to make arguments. These standards matter because the devs do appear to listen to feedback and many changes can be read as originating from feedback; we don't know for sure though because the devs rarely talk about their design intent.
I understand exactly the frustration when you no longer are able to meaningfully participate in a match; the killer is forcing you to ######### on the hook or wait for what happens which on balance of probability means dying anyway. This is a catch-22 decision that a survivor is forced to make, so the debate becomes: is it right that a survivor can be forced to have to make it?
The problem for me is anyone arguing that it's unfair is arguing for a certain standard, but that standard is vague: do they support the same standard when applied to killers for example? My estimation is that they don't: they want to apply a double-standard, one rule for survivors who must not face an uncomfortable and unfair catch-22, a different rule for killers who by design face constant catch-22 decisions, some of which survivors expressly lobbied for.
The first idea the devs tried as an anti-camping stick was to make the first phase of being hooked indefinite in length as long as the killer was within a certain distance of the hook. So a survivor gets hooked, but their progress towards stage 2 will stop whenever the killer is within X metres.
They tested this on the PTB and it was not just a balance catastrophe, but rife with griefing of both the killer and the person on the hook, who would often be left to die having been hooked for the entire match. They still have the catch-22 of having to decide to kill themselves or see what happens. The killer has the catch-22 of having to give away a free-unhook or chase someone who loops straight back to a hooked person they might have no intention of saving.
One common scenario was when the hook got swarmed because everyone knew no hook progress would happen if the killer wouldn't leave and the killer couldn't leave without commiting to a chase and giving a free un-hook; it was no longer a consideration about map-pressure because they were all at the hook. Killer hits one of them, they run off and if the killer doesn't follow they just do a gen whilst the other two are baiting the killer. When the killer makes moves towards one, they start running away and the other starts moving towards the hook, forcing the killer to go back or let them make a save which they will wait until just before stage 2 to do.
The only people being spared a catch-22 were the other survivors, who were often SWF whilst the hooked person was a solo. However the idea got adjusted, it would be abused. Make it so it doesn't apply in a chase doesn't work because these stand-offs were happening with everyone spaced apart and popping in and out of view, tea-bagging. It would require greatly improving the game's system for deciding when a chase is happening, for times when someone is looping around near a hook, but the devs didn't even bother doing that when they implemented the suggestion to reduce killer emblem points for staying near a hook.
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Because they did that and Survivors just looped near hooks to penalize Killers.
You'll never eliminate camping entirely. The hooks were an error in game design IMO, at least when made mandatory by abandoning the option for manual kills sans mori. All you can do now is incentivize leaving the hook.
I keep suggesting much slower, interruptible kills on the second down, because most players will let someone be unhooked for an opportunity to kill them directly, but that opportunity only arises if they catch them in isolation.
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Camping is a strategy get it
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Thank you for explaining that. I'm on PS4 and I either wasn't around when this was tested or not as invested in the game so I didn't hear about it. That does sound like a nightmare.
I don't necessarily think camping or tunneling need to be punished anymore than they already are. But I do think the game could give players more incentives to killers not to do those things and to survivors to stick around when they are being camped or tunneled. Things like giving killers bonus BP for hooks if they hook different survivors rather than the same one two or three times in a row. Maybe make it so gens regress faster when a survivor is on the hook, giving them even more reason to patrol the map. Etc.
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Why can't this happen in my games. I get face camped for no reason half the time and not a single gen gets done in the time I get facecamped. The survivors just sit behind a rock staring at me for 2 minutes lol
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If you stand right in front of the survivor on the hook its bullshit thats what I consider face camping.
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Im sorry but did everyone just forget that the penalties only happen if another survivor ISNT present within the hook area? "ITLL BE ABUSED BY SWF!" No it wont the penalties dont occur if a survivor is present
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also the whole "Rewards not punishments~" Idea is dumb af considering we got rewards and killers still don't care. Im not even a killer main im a flex main I play both ends more killer at this point because killers decide to tunnel, camp, and just be mad when I play stealthy or aggressive.
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Okay salty killer main who blames survivors for everything
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Yeah im in red ranks too dude. Lucky you you dont get face camped all the time like the rest of us.
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I disagree.
Camping is part of the theme of Horror movies, Suddenly the Killer is back at the basement while you try to save your friend, its very satisfying to the theme, but very much to you because the Killer outsmarted you. At Least you have pallets.
The Killer would have no freedom if you removed the ability to Camp, What you want is a AI Killer that does intentionally stupid things to let you escape. This won't happen.
Punishing Campers is also a bad idea, because then the people who are most likely to camp will end up in low Rank, scaring away the newcomers to the game and the Rank 20s.
Its possible Campers as low Rank, wont have to camp since its low rank games, but that's seems like a stretch to me.
As a Camper myself, I think Camping is a response to the absurd gameplay most survivors are capable of producing for a chase. I don't want to chase you around pallets for 7mins.
Maybe Camping wont be an issue if there were more elements to the game, but alas not.
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Playin both sides at red ranks, i dont see that much camping when i play survivor. It´s already tough to pip as a killer. But i also dont tbag the hell out of a killer, maybe thats a reason for some killers to facecamp ?!
I can remember i had some killers, most times at green ranks after rank reset, that camped me cause "i camp everyone who blinds me with a flashlight ..." or other stupid reasons, or they thought, we played as a swf.
When playing killer, it´s situational. When someone´s hooked and the doors are open, what else should i do than to proxy?
Most times i was "camping", as states at the chat after the game, a survivor ran to unhook and í´ve seen the scratchmarks. This leads most times to a "ring around the rosie" around the hooked one: i want the grab, he wants the unhook.
SO, i dont see this problem at red ranks, but i´m sure, it´s annoying as -insert a bad word with F- at lower ranks, especially for solo´s, when the team dont realize fast enough, that someone´s gettin camped.
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Then don't be the person on the hook. You just have to be less easy to find, catch and down than at least one of your teammates
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Yes. I mean look at it from the killers pointo of view one kill is better than no kills
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Well yes, of course they're to blame for a great deal that is wrong with the game. Killers can't be blamed, because we're not listened to: we had virtually no hand in how the game has developed since release.
I was once of the view that no one can be blamed for what they use in order to win in the game, that it was entirely on the devs to make sure the game was fun and fair for everyone. This changed when it become clear after six months or so that the survivors could not benefit from the status of bystanders; their feedback was actively steering and misdirecting the devs. This is how a broken feature like Bloodlust got introduced, on the justification that it would 'help against pallet-looping'.
The devs didn't actually know what pallet-looping was though. They thought it was a survivor looping around a pallet that had already been dropped. This was because for months survivors had responded to complaints about the brokeness of pallet-looping from killers with "just break the pallet", indicating to the devs that this was not about looping around a pallet before dropping it. The devs could not understand why killers wouldn't just "break the pallet".
Bloodlust needs removing from the game because it's only good against low rank solo survivors and does nothing against experienced/boosted survivors in higher ranks and the devs need to stop listening to them.
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I see campers at all ranks from time to time depends how bad tempered the killer is
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It is a legit strat. Stupid, but legit. Why else would they have that perk that completely gets rid of your terror radius when you stand still? There is literally nowhere else to use it except to either face camp and hope they dont have mics, or camp nearby but behind a corner so the hooked survivor cant see you. Plus they have a perk for survivors that shows the killers aura when a hooked survivor is looking at it. So face camping isnt even that effective against survivors that arent swf.
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Face campers got to go I'm a high rank but i still get put in a match with face campers they need to get band it just makes the game not fun and plus you can end up messing up ranks I hate face campers
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Take it as a complement obviously you did something to gain that Killer's utmost hatred and as a survivor you should feel proud that you tore down yet another person trying to have fun.
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It's a tactic, a scummy one yeah, but nonetheless a tactic
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Why camp? Because its my answer to genrush, 2-3 gens pop during a first chase, another one when i hook that first survivor. Then i check the map only to see last gens far away from each other... so then i get bored of this situation and switched to cannibal. No matter how good u hold m1, 2 of u will die.
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You'll get a depip. And that is what sux.
But as much as I hate it, we can't police every action in this game. Gotta let people play how they want and not reward it by trading hooks.
In the end the killer is limiting their own growth as a killer and will never get any better.
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16 meters is not face camping
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How did this get revived? Wasn't this posted in July?
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I have no idea
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If you cant punish flat camping then your gameplay is just plain bad. If decent killer is camping its because he knows that you camping the hook. Try to be more active.
And then if killer came back to hook and is just camping survivor until the second stage then killer would be stupid if he didnt do that.
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I can guarantee that a facecamping killer will not give the slightest of ######### about losing a couple thousand bloodpoints.
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