Why is tunneling bad?
Survivors need to escape the killer. The killer needs to kill the survivors. If the killer goes after you, despite you just have being unhooked recently, he is basically just forcing you to literally play the game. Running away from the killer IS the game. Why is that considered bad? Being forced to play?
I hear people say that it's bad because it shortens the survivor time in the match. Now, what you do the majority of the time that the killer is NOT going for you? You press your mouse button for a couple of minutes while staring at a gen. When I play survivor, I like whenever the killer comes for me because it means I will actually have some action and test my looping skills against the player playing killer. If it keeps coming after me it's even better. Said that, it bugs me why would any survivor say "Hey, killer, stop coming for me and let me stare at this gen for a couple of minutes."
Want you or not, looping is the majority of a survivor's gameplay. You shouldn't be mad that the killer is playing the game and forcing you to do so too.
And I'm not talking about tunneling in the sense of the killer downing you immediately after you got unhooked, because unless it was camping, it is entirely your teammates fault.
Please, maybe I'm seeing things the wrong way, so tell me why is it so bad that the KILLER keeps coming for you?
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Tunneling is bad for survivors: it can force a depip even if the tunnelled survivor does everything right, because they're not able to participate in the rest of the scoring events.
Tunneling is bad for killers: it can allow even a skilled killer to be looped long enough for genrush to actually be a problem, whereas juggling survivors, keeping them injured, and maybe slugging a recent unhook so you can down another one quicker is overall a smarter play - it'll keep one off the gens, get another into chase, and maybe another off gens to heal the slug.
Tunnels are a part of the game, like camping, slugging, and meta/crutch perks, because people mistake objective with participation. Overall, the survivors only doing generators and killers only hooking is going to result in a lesser experience, with fewer bloodpoints, and fewer pips. A lot of scoring events are getting more passive, which makes it so this is less of an issue, but the fact is that as things stand there's problems with aspects of intended gameplay that run counter to progress in the game.
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Tunneling isnt fun for the one getting tunneled, often times you can be tunneled without even deserving it.
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The game is out of your control when you're not the tunneled one. All you can do is gens and hope, the tunneled survivor can loop well. If they cant loop well, you cant help them either, they will be sacrificed very soon, turning the game into a 1vs3. If its early on, its already gg and you had no impact on the game, but you already lost.
Tunneling is basically a 1vs1 and not interactive for the other 3 survivors and the game result depends mostly on the 1vs1, while the rest holds M1.
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It's just boring. One person gets chased the whole match while the others get to wait there turn and poke there fingers in a gen.
There's three others that are waiting there turn!
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Because it's effective, and that's bad.
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I see. I thought people complained that isn't fun being repeatedly chased by the killer, which I think it's fun. I didn't know that it was because it isn't fun for the others who are NOT being chased. That makes more sense, and changed my perspective, thank you.
How so it isn't fun being chased? How do you deserve being chased? I don't understand your opinion.
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There's a little variation in the definition of what tunneling is.
There's the kind of tunneling where a killer fixates on the first survivor they find and won't disengage until that survivor is downed. This leads to penalties for the killer as chasing one survivor for too long means you aren't earning BP; it takes your pressure off of the map, which means less ranks in the Gatekeeper emblem; and less ranks in the Chaser emblem, as you earn ranks in that emblem by finding survivors, hitting them, and downing them in as little time as possible. A good killer needs to know when chasing a certain survivor isn't worth the time sink, thus when to break off and disrupt other survivors to exert pressure on the map.
There's the kind of tunneling where a killer fixates on a survivor that's unhooked, to down them and put them right back up. This is what most survivors complain about because, all salt aside, it's objectively not fun to be on the receiving end of it. The tunneled survivor has literally no control over the situation when a teammate greedy for altruism points or WGLF stacks and without Borrowed Time rushes up to save them while the killer is within spitting distance. They're getting punished for a teammate's bad decisions, sometimes ending up losing rare items or offerings and not really getting to benefit from them.
Thus, fixating on one survivor for too long has the potential to either ruin the experience or screw players on either side out of progressing via emblems or BP.
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Very bad, it is not fun for the tunneled survivor, and they get no chance to do anything else. And because of tunneling, I lost 3 ranks, that's how bad it can be. (10 to 13 then rank reset had to happen) Getting mega tunneled means you will barely get points and have a high chance to depip to the low ranks with more potatoes. Wastes time for killer, but even worse for the tunneled survivor. I prefer being tunneled to facecamped, but both are bad for survivors and killers.
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Here's a solution to "tunneling". Survivors, if you don't have borrowed time, stop making the ridiculous mistake of unhooking right in front of the killer's terror radius. If no one has Borrowed Time, and the killer is camping, just do gens. When I'm being camped, I'd rather you do gens and get out so I can get to the next game and have fun rather than the camping killer get a 4k because you all messed up. I'd also not like to be immediately put back on the hook for your sorry ass mistakes. Stop unhooking in front of the killer and tunneling doesn't exist.
Any other example of "tunneling" is tunnel vision, and that's a separate beast because every survivor claims that tunneling is getting knocked down right after being unhooked. In that case, you don't get objective as much but you get much more boldness. Is it bad that the killer has tunnel vision because you brought a key? Maybe? Did you sort of entice it by bringing said key? Definitely. There's usually a reason for tunnel vision.
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Tunneling is only considered bad for bad survivors who want to toy around with the killer with made up rules. It's annoying, but an effective way to eliminate people fast.
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Even with BT that doesn't give license to do stupid saves with the killer nearby unless there is no other choice i.e. camping.
Guess you never had a killer race back to the hook as fast as they can soon as the notification goes out. Some of those killers can race back pretty fast.
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@darktrix The only ones that can get there in time to reach the survivor before they're healed in my experience are teleporters. I run We'll Make It because I actually intend to be the one to do hook rescues. If another person is there with me, it goes even faster. If other survivors played like this we wouldn't have problems. I do however agree that that doesn't give license to make stupid saves. I'm just saying that if you have borrowed time, you still have the option if forced to.
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What's worked for me to quell accusations of tunnels: while I do tend to slug the unhooked immediately on an unsafe hook, I leave them on the ground to ideally chase the unhooker. Takes them off gens, gives them a chance to recover a bit, and takes someone else off gens to heal them. Haven't gotten accused of tunnelling since I started consciously doing that instead of taking only the easiest hook, and frankly it makes games go smoother overall.
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Tunneling makes Survivors get mad cause you won't give them a chance at life, you're supposed to kill anyway, a dead Survivor at 5 or 4 gens will make the other group lose hope.
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So ? You have not read the sacred book of rules for killer?
I would also like to invent a new word for survivors who continues a regressed generator instead of starting a new one.
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If there are 3 gens left and ruin is done for, one survivor has to go to even the odds.
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Q: Why is tunneling bad?
A: Because it is no fun for the tunneld Survivor (and eventually for the whole team). The same is valid for Camping or Survivor who try their best to piss off the Killer.
Also, if a killer has to tunnel a Person or camp the hook, he is simply not good enough.
I would never tunnel anyone, just for those 2 reasons (no fun for anyone and it would be a concession that i am bad)
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Like we all keep saying - a generator is not a player.
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Its bad because you win that way. If you wont tunnel because survivors dont like it you going to be survivors ######### for the rest of your life so dont be a wuss and play the way you can win. While tunneling is effective no not tunneling i d say eliminating one survivor as fast as possible it is.The real tunneling(consistently chasing one person until he dies) will make other survivors consistently staying on gens not being afraid of you which may end up in you gettting gen rushed pretty fast. So if you want to tunnel make sure that that survivor is not going to reach another pallet after he gets unhooked.
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Not many killer players (players, not the killer itself) have the capability to keep up pressure by hunting and hooking survivors at a good pace. Especially newer killers will then rush back to the hook to get a lead on another survivor - but since the unhooked is injured and much easier to find being in a panic to get away from the hook cause the killer is coming right back, they get tunneled. Then when they are on last hook, well it's just one more hook til death, so they get tunneled again.
That's how most tunnels go because the one who saved just runs off and hides, not presenting another target to go after and therefore not really protecting their save. Now there is a lot of true tunneling going on where the killer will outright ignore closer targets, just to run after the one that got off the hook, but the majority of the time it is the case I just mentioned.
Tunneling is a subset of camping - used by killers who are not sufficiently skilled or confident in order to insure kills.
If you have to ask why is tunneling bad - I suggest you actually experience it for yourself and play survivor more than just once or twice instead of asking for random opinions, especially play solo where you do not get to choose your 'teammates'.
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But killing the survivors is the goal of the killer and repairing the generators and then running away is that of the survivors.
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i agree but while i normaly never camp or tunnel there is one thing thatll force me to be that kind of toxic... thats those toxic survivors tbag at every pallet drop and such ill tunnel him and face camp and laugh as the rest of the team gets a free pass
ive even had survivors thank me for face camping the toxic survivor after they crouched walked in circles as he died on hook before crouching out the exit the salt was glorious
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I've been waiting for devs to give survivors shotguns so we can go face to face to settle things, but sadly - survivors are left with just doing gens and running away.
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I tunnel and i dont feel a bit bad about it.
Why should I do survivor feel bad about if they gen rush me in 3 minutes no they dont.
The argument that the survivor wont pip is bs couse when survivors gen rush the killer wont pip as well so as long as gen´s are going so fast ill tunnel 1 person down and play the rest normal to have a chance :)
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Exactly, the game punishes you if the generators are done quickly even if you kill 3/4 survivors. You lose a lot while camping, but tunnel is always beneficial for killer.
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Tunneling is a show of insecurity. When you focus on one survivor until they die, you're A) ruining someone's game play, B) too insecure that you have the skills to secure a kill any other way, and C) neglect the 3 other survivors. Those survivors get to relax and focus on gens, totems, and chests (& finding tools that aid their survival). Killers who hook a survivor and then put pressure on the other survivors and regress gens are generally the most nerve-wracking, because they are not allowing survivors to let their guard down. You tunnel one survivor incessantly, you can't complain about instaheals (it's only fair) or gens popping left and right.
And when I play killer, if someone is stupid enough to make an unsafe hook...of course I'll down the unhooked survivor. But I leave them. And then I pursue the idiot unhooked and give the other teammates time to up the downed survivor. If they don't get him up after a minute, then he's fair game. But I have no problem avoiding tunneling because in my opinion, it screams weakness.
Also - survivors shouldn't depip from being tunneled.
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I play a long game with other survivors. We do not Gen rush. Usually we have to find and break totems to even start the game. By the time the totem is broke we're usually down a survivor who was tunneled and camped and another survivor with 1 hook remaining or recently with ghost face, 2 survivors murked and the other 2 bargaining who will be a sacrificed while the last finds a hatch, hopefully. Maybe I suck as a survivor and killers should take note when no gens are done and they're just murking an entire team 🤷♂️ I've yet to see a horror movie boot up and evrryone get murked to boot but if you wanna be that killer I guess we'll be the survivors who all DC. DC is also part of the game 🤷♂️
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Because some killers are mad corny and don't know how to play. They have a camp or tunnel to get kills. Even if the survivor isn't an a**hole they still get camped or tunneled. Some killers don't respect good juking skills either. It hurts their little pride but boosts their own ego.
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Camping and tunneling are completely different. Camping is something done by bad Killers and if you lose to it as the noncamped survivors you are bad survivors.
Tunneling, however, is an effective and time efficient way to secure hooks/kills and to swing the match in your favor as a Killer. Its not always the best thing to do, depending on different circumstances and where you are and what is happening but no Killer should have to avoid downing/hooking someone that was just unhooked if its the smartest thing for them to do.
Are we seriously asking Killers to go easy, and to stop killing survivors, if said survivors are bad and/or getting stomped? Am I going crazy?
"C) neglect the 3 other survivors."
This is camping, not tunneling. Please stop pushing this false narrative. Tunneling is chasing/downing someone who was just unhooked. It is NOT staying by the hook, or ignoring what other survivors are doing. A Killer who is choosing to ignore other Survivors, and chases one specific one all game until they go down, including refusing to hit other survivors is essentially camping them all game. When most decent Killers refer to "tunneling" they are not refering directly to this behaviour, and if your team is bad then you will lose to this just like you lose to a Killler camping hook.
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Using a effective strategy suddenly means you're not good at the game? I'm not seeing your logic.
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Tunneling is awesome. There is nothing more rewarding in this game then when a killer decides to stop wasting time with you after 3 gens and no hooks.
Just use every tunnel as a learning experience. Once you master the loops, you have helped your team tremendously. GET THOSE BOLD POINTS!
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People who regard tunnels as 'effective strategy' are people who mistake kills for victory. You have four emblems to fill, not just one. They get easier with a kill, but they get even easier if you learn to take the blinders off and play intelligently.
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Tunneling is an issue depending on who is involved. From a purely competitive stand point, it makes sense that the killer would want to remove one survivor as quick as possible to reduce the chances of that team winning by forcing a 3v1. Realistically, it’s a jerk move. I’m not gonna rag on the people that do it, they can play how they want and it’s not game-breaking, but it’s still a bit of a jerk move. I don’t recommend doing it as killer, purely so you can get better at the game. Conversely, as a survivor, like @WildDovami said, use it as a chance to get better. Getting tunneled is great for me when it’s a 5 gen chase, and while that def won’t happen every time, it can force you to improve even without you realizing.
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@ElusivePukka kills ARE victory. If I onehook everyone and they all die, I won. If I have a lot of chases, hook everyone two times, but in the end they all escape, I failed miserably. Eliminating people is the fun part of the game. Don't let the devs deceive you with their false ideas about "emblems" and "rank". These more or less reward a play-nicey style, which is boring. I want to utterly destroy survivors. Survivors should work to make me fail. That's what a real fun game is about.
Or do you prefer farming? Ugh.
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@darktrix I play survivor plenty and I never blame a killer for what you people call "tunneling". I blame the ######### survivor who unhooked me right in front of the killer's eyes. That bastard needs to learn to play. "Tunneling" is not a subset of camping. "Tunneling" is that greedy ass survivor who unhooks you right in front of the killer's face, runs off, leaves you to die, and then blames the killer for "tunneling" because he did an unsafe unhook(which is still considered a safe unhook as long as you don't get downed in a few seconds because why have logic?). If a killer is CAMPING, then he's the problem, but if some survivor who wants his friggin altruism points comes up to me and unhooks me in front of the killer's face(which is what ALWAYS happens when the killer "tunnels"), it's the survivor's misplay that caused my ass to go down a second time. I'm still waiting on a way to deny survivors from unhooking me, or at least a loss of emblems/bloodpoints if unhooked right in front of the killer's face without borrowed time so that people actually learn when to unhook and when not to. Playing solo is EXACTLY why "tunneling" exists. Because those ######### ass "teammates" decide to unhook you right in front of the killer's face, which AGAIN, is a bad play without borrowed time. The survivor was the cause of your death if you're "tunneled", not the killer.
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To everyone saying "it's not fun": this ain't co-op, it's PvP. The killer is not your teammate, they're your opponent.
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Going chase to chase and being able to rapidly down new survivors means you are better than them. Killing people on their first hook or proxy camping them down doesn't really prove much. Now I love playing a campy basement hag game; but no it doesn't take too much skill to do.
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A killer might not care about showing the survivors that he is, what survivors describe as good. They wanna eliminate people as fast as possible so tunneling is very effective, but annoying when you're the survivor.
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This is PvP. Your opponent doesn't give a ######### if you think they're skilled or not. The fact that you lost already objectively proves you're worse than they are.
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People want the killer to play the role of the host and judge and will not worry about breaking your totem before the first minute or making the generators in 5 min.
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@George_Soros kills aren't victory at all. You can get a 4k and depip.
Kills and chases, I'm not gonna get into a subjective and semantic debate over which part is 'the fun part of the game'. Don't let toxic Youtubers and streamers deceive you with notions of "salt = fun." All that says is these people have little excitement outside the game. You want to destroy survivors? Get good enough that you make them thank you for not killing them sooner, rather than pretending that cheap tactics show you're either skilled or worthy of victory.
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Heh. Pips have nothing to do with victory, a sweet 4K does. But yeah I agree that there are cheap ways and fair (or even stylish!) ways of doing it. I hate moris more than survivors do, I mean I use them but only after second hook. Likewise, camping is just meh... Dead By Boredom. But none of this means that "victory" has any other criteria than killing survivors. That's why I frown at criticism thrown at tunneling. I know it's frustrating for the target, but hey, if someone so much dislikes being killed, maybe they should play a game where, you know, you don't get killed? The best and most objective measurement of how well you're doing as a killer is the number of survivors killed. You know, making the world a better place.
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@George_Soros The best and most objective measurement of how well you're doing as a killer is the number of hooks you've earned. Tunnels are taking an easy way out, and that's my primary objection to it: it's cheap on both ends. Hooking someone thrice while giving them time to recover is thrice the skill to making it so they can't be safely unhooked - it's part of why I like Devour Hope, speaking of moris. You earn those cinematics :P
And typically those who say "if you don't like it, play something else" aren't likely to be much fun in general - wanting the community to be lesser isn't exactly positive.
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@ElusivePukka God I can't resist arguing. Oh well.
You need to understand, killers are constantly on the clock. We can rarely catch a break. Unless we constantly put pressure on survivors, we're lost. One survivor out of the game early means a solid 25% decrease in repair speed, giving us some much needed room to breathe. In theory, it sounds nice to "give them time to recover", and sometimes, when I realize I'm facing very casual players I do that. But it's a luxury we cannot afford on high ranks. And by the way, this "tunneling is cheap" attitude is exactly what I hear from survivors who can't get over a loss. It's just an excuse to explain themselves why they lost. Not that I don't curse "goddamn crutch Adrenaline" sometimes, but let's face it: these are just made up excuses, meant to make us feel better about ourselves (and they fail at that btw).
Most importantly: a game is not fun if everyone tries to play nice. The reason I'm always advertising the most possible sweaty-tryhard-dirty gameplay is because that's where real excitement is. Other than actual cheating, lagswitching, etc, ANYTHING that's possible is allowed. Bring your best perks, items, whatever, I'll do the same. I will stop at nothing to annihilate you... and I expect you to play in the same fashion. Anything less than that, and I might as well play Pony Farm Builder 2 in coop mode. Boring. It's a game. The whole point of it is that I can do things I always wanted, but can't in real life: removing people's faces with a chainsaw, eating their livers, you know, fun stuff. So... there isn't really any argument to hold me back from doing these things in a virtual environment at least. *Sigh*
Oh and just a little note about Devour: just like Ruin, it's not really an "earned" thing. No Hex perks are. If it gets found early, then survivors gain advantage purely because of luck. If it does not, killer does. Nothing to do with "skill" or whatever. Unfortunately, Hex perks are horribly RNG.
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@George_Soros A measure of a killer's skill is being able to take control of that clock. It's not a luxury to allow healing, it's a thrill. This 'tunneling isn't cheap' nonsense is exactly what I hear from fellow killers who can't be assed to improve their own skill.
I'm not saying play nice. I'm saying be good enough that they know you could play dirty, but don't have to. That's where real domination happens, when they know they're beaten despite having all the 'crutches' and second chances they possibly can.
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Ah, ok then. I guess we just draw the line differently between "cheap" and "ok". For me, cheap starts at a mori. Tunneling is well within the limits. But I'll stop now. Cheers.
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How is it if you were dicharged from the hospital and get hit as soon you get out of the exit to be forced back in hospital instantly? People denying that tunneling is bullshit gameplay are the last people needed in the game.
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I disagree, the best killers and streamers almost never tunnel and camp. They win with solid 10-12 hook games. If you can't catch someone 3 times they are probably better than you. There is nothing better than moonwalking backwards around a loop to cut someone off and completely outplaying them for an easy down. That is skill; camping is not. Sorry.
Post edited by Apple2o on4 -
Bad are people complaining about tunneling or camping. If others are doing gens during this time killer instantly looses with one kill.
But yeah, it takes more than 50 iq to hold M1 and jab spacebar from time to time.
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I am a survivor main and even though I am of the opinion that there should be no rules for killer. You do what you have to do win. Sure as a personal goal you can not tunnel and have everyone’s experience at least be fair, but you don’t have to go by this and killers shouldn’t be discouraged all because someone complained about it at the very end. How I see it, there are no rules for survivors so there are no rules for killers. Funny how are usually toxic survivors will complain at the very end about tunneling but they teabag the whole time. there is no rule that says survivors can’t teabag so there should be no rule that says you can’t tunnel.
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