How to fix SWF
Here's a solution for the SWF problem.
When survivors choose to join a lobby as SWF, the killer gets two additional perk slots, and one additional addon slot. The killer will then have a total of 6 perks and 3 addons.
This change will give the killer significant advantages, nullifying or getting ahead of the advantage of SWF communication and teamwork. It would open up the door to broken killer builds that could potentially crush SWF teams, to balance out how good SWF teams ######### on killers.
All killers would benefit immensely from this, not just nurse. Nurse would probably be broken beyond imagination, but at least SWF would get ######### on. Doc would have some pretty fun cancer builds for sure.
Looping would still be an issue (arguably the main complaint of killers), but two extra perk slots opens up for an easier time. An extra addon will also reduce the amount of time spent chasing a looper.
Comments
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You know I was ready to tear this down for whatever reason but honestly I kind of like this. Maybe like 1 perk extra for 2 swf survivors, 1 perk and 1 addon extra for 3 swf survivors and 2 perks and 1 addon extra for a full group?
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Could work... Problem is, during SWF I notice that Bodyblocking, Flashlight spam, Gen Rushing and pallet looping is a lot more extreme. How would giving two extra perks prevent these from happening?
Not hating on the idea, it is DEFINITELY a step in the right direction. Some problems will still be there though.
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@DocMain said:
Here's a solution for the SWF problem.When survivors choose to join a lobby as SWF, the killer gets two additional perk slots, and one additional addon slot. The killer will then have a total of 6 perks and 3 addons.
This change will give the killer significant advantages, nullifying or getting ahead of the advantage of SWF communication and teamwork. It would open up the door to broken killer builds that could potentially crush SWF teams, to balance out how good SWF teams ######### on killers.
All killers would benefit immensely from this, not just nurse. Nurse would probably be broken beyond imagination, but at least SWF would get ######### on. Doc would have some pretty fun cancer builds for sure.
Looping would still be an issue (arguably the main complaint of killers), but two extra perk slots opens up for an easier time. An extra addon will also reduce the amount of time spent chasing a looper.
To me this change would be JUST AS GOOD as a SWF indicator, when I see more slots, then dodge. But hey maybe the additional perks would make a difference and the game might be tolerable.... but I doubt it.
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I like this idea and I've considered it for a while, but it doesn't solve some major issues, like looping. It might also encourage some solo players to lobby dodge.
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Lemme get this straight.
You want to punish a solo Survivor for queueing into two and three man SWF lobbies????
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the only fix that needs to be implemented for SWF is to remove every single indicator that a group is SWF and killers need to just play the game as intended.
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@Ivoshkov said:
the only fix that needs to be implemented for SWF is to remove every single indicator that a group is SWF and killers need to just play the game as intended.Not remove comms like the game was intended to be played? I mean if it was intended to be used it would have been added to the game right?
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Although I like the idea, the problem is solo Survivors. Any suggestion regarding how to balance SWF has to take the following into account:
- Solo Survivors. You can't indirectly punish them.
- The Killer's rank relative to the group. SWF groups have longer queue times, which will naturally increase the search parameters, and likely put them up against Killers who are even easier to crush than average.
- The number of available players who would willingly go up against SWF. There are few, if any, players who would willingly go up against SWF all the time.
- Killers can't become too weak. They're already fairly powerless against SWF.
There are two ways to balance something. You can either nerf it to bring it down to the same level as the rest, or buff everything else to bring everything to the same level and then make other changes based on that information. Due to the nature of SWF, the latter might work better than the former, but it'd require Killers to become so powerless (temporarily) that it might just kill the game altogether.
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I play in a four man SWF, and maybe it's because we don't pallet loop unless necessary or to play mind games (I consider pallet looping the extreme kind) , but our games are often really balance. Sometimes we all die, others we all escape, sometimes 2 of us live and sometimes only 1 does. It's a variation. We're all Rank 1 minus one guy but nonetheless there's not that many problems.
And if the Killer got 2 more perks and an add on slot with our games, it would make it totally unbalanced for people like us... SWF with comms is only OP and not to mention irritating when shitheads pallet loop to the extreme and clickity click their goddamn flashlights at every pallet. Otherwise, we've gotten some good killers who are able to achieve 4ks without tunneling and camping.
This game is fine when you actually mindgame the Killer with pallets and windows and not loop. The problem lies more within mechanics than it does as a whole such as the ability to loop a pallet. Smart and skilled survivors are attempting to drop the chase ASAP with mindgames and unpredictable movement instead.
Just saying.
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@Orion said:
There are two ways to balance something. You can either nerf it to bring it down to the same level as the rest, or buff everything else to bring everything to the same level and then make other changes based on that information. Due to the nature of SWF, the latter might work better than the former, but it'd require Killers to become so powerless (temporarily) that it might just kill the game altogether.I doubt they'd buff solo survivors without buffing killers. You'd have to be willingly blind not to see that they've been pandering to killers for the last six months. To suddenly drop that on its head? Yeah, I don't think so.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Orion said:
There are two ways to balance something. You can either nerf it to bring it down to the same level as the rest, or buff everything else to bring everything to the same level and then make other changes based on that information. Due to the nature of SWF, the latter might work better than the former, but it'd require Killers to become so powerless (temporarily) that it might just kill the game altogether.I doubt they'd buff solo survivors without buffing killers. You'd have to be willingly blind not to see that they've been pandering to killers for the last six months. To suddenly drop that on its head? Yeah, I don't think so.
If by "pandering to Killers" you mean "addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers", then yes, I know they've been "pandering" to Killers. That doesn't change the fact that to balance SWF by buffing solo Survivors, you'd need to buff Survivors to the same level as SWF, collect data over a relatively long period of time, and only then resume addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers.
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You know people who don't communicate in SWF exist right?
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@Orion said:
If by "pandering to Killers" you mean "addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers", then yes, I know they've been "pandering" to Killers. That doesn't change the fact that to balance SWF by buffing solo Survivors, you'd need to buff Survivors to the same level as SWF, collect data over a relatively long period of time, and only then resume addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers.Appeasing. Satisfying. Addressing killer-imbalance concerns. Whatever you'd like.
I don't think so. That is a safe way to do it, but again, I highly doubt they'd leave the killers to face every fight into SWF level. The devs aren't that stupid. I wouldn't be surprised, if the day they do actually address solo vs SWF imbalance, that they'd implement sweeping changes to buff killers across the board alongside it.
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We can start by not letting those killed see the killers perks. How often has this been suggested? Why is this not in the game yet? They have had plenty of time to produce DLC after DLC yet cant block this part of the screen till the game is over?
Come on. Whats more important? Health of the game or more DLC. I know the answer to this and its not blocking the screen.
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I’m sorry, but no. I play both killer and survivor, and a good killer can counter a good survive with friends group. I’ve seen it happen dozens of times. The only excuse for the imbalance is a lack of tactic. You can’t just lawnmower your way over the survivors the same way when they can communicate.
It’s like killer mains treat SWF like it’s the exception, but it’s not. SWF *IS* the norm. We have to accept the fact that 90% of the time at least two people in your lobby are in a group and they will communicate. Giving additional “heads up” promotes more lobby dodging, which i personally don’t do, because it’s a never ending scourge on console. Toxicity exists on all sides and we cannot be afraid to lose if our tactic doesn’t work.
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@Orion said:
@Visionmaker said:
@Orion said:
There are two ways to balance something. You can either nerf it to bring it down to the same level as the rest, or buff everything else to bring everything to the same level and then make other changes based on that information. Due to the nature of SWF, the latter might work better than the former, but it'd require Killers to become so powerless (temporarily) that it might just kill the game altogether.I doubt they'd buff solo survivors without buffing killers. You'd have to be willingly blind not to see that they've been pandering to killers for the last six months. To suddenly drop that on its head? Yeah, I don't think so.
If by "pandering to Killers" you mean "addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers", then yes, I know they've been "pandering" to Killers. That doesn't change the fact that to balance SWF by buffing solo Survivors, you'd need to buff Survivors to the same level as SWF, collect data over a relatively long period of time, and only then resume addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers.
Doesn't buffing solo survivor's provide a buff to SWF also? Any buffs to perks, offerings or gear/add-ons is going to benefit a SWF group as well.
I think they just continue working to buff killers and re-work the weaker ones. Seems to be going well so far.
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They should add it on top of all the bs they have in the ptb now. Why not when they already are going balls deep ya know?
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StalwartXX said:
@Orion said:
@Visionmaker said:
@Orion said:
There are two ways to balance something. You can either nerf it to bring it down to the same level as the rest, or buff everything else to bring everything to the same level and then make other changes based on that information. Due to the nature of SWF, the latter might work better than the former, but it'd require Killers to become so powerless (temporarily) that it might just kill the game altogether.I doubt they'd buff solo survivors without buffing killers. You'd have to be willingly blind not to see that they've been pandering to killers for the last six months. To suddenly drop that on its head? Yeah, I don't think so.
If by "pandering to Killers" you mean "addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers", then yes, I know they've been "pandering" to Killers. That doesn't change the fact that to balance SWF by buffing solo Survivors, you'd need to buff Survivors to the same level as SWF, collect data over a relatively long period of time, and only then resume addressing the imbalance issues plaguing Killers.
Doesn't buffing solo survivor's provide a buff to SWF also? Any buffs to perks, offerings or gear/add-ons is going to benefit a SWF group as well.
I think they just continue working to buff killers and re-work the weaker ones. Seems to be going well so far.
Not those kind of buffs. Adding voice coms, text chat, LFG features, stuff like that.
Stuff that basically already exists in Steam, and PSN/Xbox networks but built into the game that can turn solo survivors into the same level of team play as SWF.0
