An Update to Decisive Strike that would help against Tunneling even if no survivor brought it
Using Decisive Strike will no longer spawn an obsession at the start of the match, a survivor has to use this perk in order to become the obsession.
This would help against tunneling, because if the killer sees at the start of the match that no one is the obsession, and they're not running any obsession perks, then they can tunnel survivors all they like and benefit from it.
Alot of people seem to get really confused as to what exactly do I mean by this update, this person explained the best way possible for everyone to understand, I hope.
"Y'all, he's saying that you can tell if there is a DS in your game if you see an Obsession, usually. If you don't see an Obsession, that means there's no Obsession perks in your game, which means you can tunnel without worrying about DS. He wants to make it where you can't differentiate between the two so the killers will have act like every survivor is using DS."
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Does this suggest turning off ALL Obsession perks until a DS is used?
Or does it only mean that if DS is the only obsession perk in the game, none will spawn?
It should be the latter so as to not completely disable Killer Obsession perks.
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"Using Decisive Strike will no longer spawn an obsession at the start of the match, a survivor has to use this perk in order to become the obsession."
Specifically saying that no obsession is going to spawn when someone is using only DS, it's also written in the title that this is a DS update.
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So people will equip it just to deny the killer perks until DS is triggered, which the survivor can simply opt not to do when picked up.
This is why survivor-memes are real.
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*Facepalm*
Do you guys even read what I wrote before commenting?
"This would help against tunneling, because if the killer sees at the start of the match that no one is the obsession, AND THEY'RE NOT RUNNING ANY OBSESSION PERKS, then they can tunnel survivors all they like and benefit from it."
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Reading comprehension: a dying art and skill in the days of 250 character max status updates.
I agree. If the killer has no obsession perks and the survivors aren’t running other obsession perks, ds should only trigger brackets after it hits. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out if a survivor isn’t running ooo and if they’re not trying to get protection hits, they’re running ds.
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Y'all, he's saying that you can tell if there is a DS in your game if you see an Obsession, usually. If you don't see an Obsession, that means there's no Obsession perks in your game, which means you can tunnel without worrying about DS. He wants to make it where you can't differentiate between the two so the killers will have act like every survivor is using DS.
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I would be okay with this if it wasn't possible to proc DS despite not actually tunneling the Survivor who has it and instead just inadvertently running into them again and downing them while DS still has a bit of time left. I am not sure it would feel particularly good to ALWAYS have to be wary about how long it's been since someone was unhooked.
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So where is the #CoUnTeRpLaY for Killers to use against DS? Or is that just a Survivor privilege?
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...do not tunnel the person who just got off the hook?
Even if you do tunnel that person and really want him dead, but you strongly suspect he has DS, you can always down them and wait 60 seconds before picking them up, so there's your counterplay.
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So always 60s of immunity for when you get unhooked regardless of the circumstances? I don't think the power role needs that.
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The problem is I did read and you were asked to clarify something, which you didn't. You were asked a question particularly pertaining to killers using obsession perks and you answered as if killers didn't matter.
The fact you've been dodged twice now indicates to me that this is the actual purpose of your suggestion. Survivor gonna survivor, as usual.
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They're not immune for 60 seconds, you can instantly pick them up, but there's going to be a chance they have DS, you either just risk it or not and play it safe, and if you're playing strong killers like Nurse or Spirit, getting D striked shouldn't even be a problem for you cause you can down them right afterwards if you're good enough.
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Well survivors have to act like every killer is using NOED, which has a healthy impact of slowing the game down. This is called counter balance because you don't have enough evidence to prove someone isn't running this perk, so you have to assume they do or take the risk of them actually having the perk. :)
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This guy basically explained everything I meant
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Too late, you were asked straightforward questions for clarification and fluffed it, blaming others for 'not reading'.
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What about scenarios when you don't tunnel the Survivor with DS but instead just randomly down them later on by chance, only to find that they still have DS?
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How is it too late? Too late for what? Do you understand the other guy's explanation? If not, then I don't even know how to explain my Idea to you, so I won't even bother.
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Usually you can tell if a survivor has DS if they want to be downed.
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Except that they don't because it's very easy to deduce what perks the killer is using. Also let me know when it take 60 seconds to cleanse a totem.
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People just gotta make a shitshow out of idea that killer has to assume every survivor has DS, like survivors have to assume that every killer has NOED, because not tunneling a person who just got off the hook is too hard, and killers need info when they're free to tunnel anyone whilst not being afraid of eating a DS
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So you can stun me? hell no.
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I'm not talking about when a Survivor is trying to bait you. I'm talking about when you just randomly stumble onto them again by chance.
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You titled the thread "An update to Decisive Strike that would help against tunnelling even if no survivor brought it". This makes nonsense of the subsequent non-explanations, including NMCKE's. This along with your opening-post is the only honest thing you have said.
It's what prompted Judgement to ask for clarification, to which you gave a fudged answer to evade clarififying it because you did mean to override the killer's Obsession perks as long as survivors were only running DS, to help them 'against tunnelling'.
If you really meant what you said when you quoted yourself as saying something you never actually did say..
"This would help against tunneling, because if the killer sees at the start of the match that no one is the obsession, AND THEY'RE NOT RUNNING ANY OBSESSION PERKS, then they can tunnel survivors all they like and benefit from it."
...this is the opposite of helping survivors 'against tunnelling'. It's a complete reversal.
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Hold on, clarification; you did say that, but decided to add BLOCK CAPITALS as if that would make it any clearer who you were talking about, the survivor or killer.
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60 seconds is a bit ridiculous, you would have to nerf every Hex perk in the game to compensate for that amount of time, let alone what Thrill of The Hunt can do.
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I'm seeing an Apple on the table and say it's an Apple.
Another person comes by and asks if that's an Apple, I answer that it is indeed an apple.
Another person comes by and asks if that's a Watermelon, I answer that it's not, and perhaps the person should pay closer attention.
The same person says again that it's a Watermelon, I answer that it's not Watermelon, and the guy next to us already explained to you that it's in fact an Apple.
The same person calls both of us liars, and says that it being an Apple makes no sense, and it's most certainly is a Watermelon.
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No, you're saying something is meant to help 'against tunnelling' which in the context you've framed would require killers have a malus imposed on them. You're asked to clarify the framing, which you botch multiple times and it also doesn't square-up with the killer 'seeing no Obsession at the start of the match' meaning they can 'tunnel all they like and benefit from it'.
You don't get to call your Gordian-knot an 'apple'.
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You did read the post you mentioned, and seen the guy explain it as clearly as possible, even if you didn't get what I mean here?
If the Killer is not running any obsession perks, and Survivors are using or NOT using DS, the Obsession icon is not going to show up.
If the Killer is RUNNING an obsession perk, then the Obsession will show up no matter if survivors are using DS or not like it does right now.
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sooo basically free STBFL stacks with no downsides.
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???
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"Using Decisive Strike will no longer spawn an obsession at the start of the match, a survivor has to use this perk in order to become the obsession."
Basically the killer can just slug whoever gets unhooked and wait 60 seconds, thus no one gets to even use DS and obsession dosen't spawn.
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I framed all of this in a contex that this ONLY affects DS, without any other Obsession perks in mind would it be other Survivor perks or Killer's.
Here I mention in my last sentence that this affects ONLY DS.
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An Obsession Killer Perk is going to spawn an Obsession like usual like ANY OTHER KILLER OBSESSION PERK, just how many times do I have to mention this over and over again?
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And you're still fudging this. We're supposed to still believe you though.
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If you the killer uses an Obsession perk, regardless of what Obsession perks the survivors are using, there will always be an Obsession. DS don't hide the Obsession icon unless it's the ONLY Obsession perk being used on BOTH sides.
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I'd just like to see Hook Farmers get punished hard whether it was intentional or not. Time and time again I've been on a hook and yet despite running Kindred so the survivors can coordinate and see the killer. I've continually had babies (Often Megs/Jakes) just run up, unhook me, and then speed off as the killer instantly downs me and puts me right back up there because they waited until the bloody killer had returned to unhook me, only now I don't have 45 seconds of first hook phase up
I'm on my last. Hook Farming needs to be strongly discouraged and punished with a in-game mechanic
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I agree with this idea. I personally tunnel sometimes that I see no obsession so I can understand why this would be a great buff. In exchange, DS stun time should be decreased to 4 seconds because 5 seconds is too much in my opinion. Btw, upvoted.
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Tunneling is a legit strat. You want killers to stop tunneling? Make games go by slower. Until then, no buffs to anything that stops tunneling.
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And for Object Of Obsession it is the most effective counterplay
Also efficient against Adrenaline, why would I attack a full health survivor when I can kill the wounded survivor that was unhooked in front of me with the next hook and ensure Adrenaline can't go off?
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I don't think he's saying tunneling ISN'T a viable strategy, because I think he's implying it isn't healthy for the game I think.
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Ah. I would agree then. It isn't healthy for the game, but, it is unfortunately required for some killers.
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The problem is when there is no Obsession, the killer knows they are free to tunnel without consequence. I agree with OP in that I want killers to have to play around DS in the same way survivors must play around NOED, even if it is not in the game (You must generally expect them to have it or face the potential consequences).
But DS is an Obsession perk, and they are designed to increase the chance of being the Obsession. To achieve what OP suggests, you would have to remove this mechanic from DS, making it not an Obsession perk anymore, wouldn't you?
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People can't read to save their lives.
Also like this idea. DS could use some other changes to work only against tunnelling. I like the one that extends the timer but turns off as soon as someone else's hooked.
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I agree with that.
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