A discussion on lobby dodging and DCing
Alright so here's a discussion about asking for a punishment for lobby dodging and DCing.
First things first, DCing isn't fun but it's something that just happens. It's a video game and it's not real life. ######### will come up in their real life, and it's impossible for a game to know with 100% certainty that your DC was for a good reason or not. Not to mention that again, it's a video game. It's meant to be fun. If you're not having fun, don't play.
Second, lobby dodging punishment will ultimately hurt the game. Why? It's a simple cause and effect timeline. You start punishing lobby dodging, survivors start being more obvious with their builds. This leads to killers either DCing more or just sitting in a corner and not playing. This will lead to the killer playerbase dying significantly, leading to longer than the already atrocious wait time for survivors. Now, this is bad enough on its own, but here's where it gets more "potentially" and with less certainty. One of two things happens. The killer playerbase gets so small the game dies due to a lack of willing participants, or the devs try to grow the killer playerbase more. They do this with buff incentives, many of which will piss off the survivor base, leading to more people leaving. Thus, leading to a dead game. Do you see the issue?
tldr, lobby dodging punishment will kill the game.
Comments
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Lobby dodging shouldn't even be considered punishable. Nobody is hurt, survivor lobbies take seconds to join, i can dodge for whatever reason, from me not wanting to sweat against swf after a bad day to pizza delivery guy ringing the bell.
Classic useless survivor mains request.
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I have no problem with lobby dodge, I aleays get into a lobby in seconds as survivor.
About DCs, I'm agree, but they should make it like the first times in a month doesnvt have punichment but after the third or fourth DC you get warned and then banned.
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Regarding DCs:
It is correct that not every DC is intentional. And even if it is intentional, it is not in a bad intend. But once it happens too often, it should and needs to be punished. Like, if you DC because your food just arrived, ok. But if you ordered food, you may want to think about not starting a game of DBD after some time has passed since you ordered it.
Also, if you have a bad connection and your internet dies - happens. But then dont get into other games.
Regarding lobbydodging, this should also be punished after X amount of times. And I dont see any problems with Survivors being more obvious with their builds, Killers claim they want to see the Survivors to prepare for the game. But in fact they only want to dodge if there are too many Items (or any other silly reasons). I mean, Last Second Switches are Bullshit, but they only happen, because Killers would dodge otherwise. I cant even imagine, why someone wants to go into this horrible Queuetime, just because he is afraid of a brown Medkit.
Killers (and Survivors) need to except that not every game will be winnable.
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tldr, lobby dodging punishment will kill the game.
Lobbydodging, along with queue times, is one of the main reasons why stopped playing DbD for a couple of months.
People who lobbydodge just need to either:
A) grow a pair
B) switch to pve games
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also can go for people who Dodge mori's
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Lets summarize: lobby dodging and dcing bad.
Doing something about it: even worse.
???
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Basically all we can do is deal with it cuz that is the only why cuz the cry babies always wanting to have a sure win and not ,oh let me try and if I win the heck ya,but since people want to be winey stupid people we have to deal with them
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And I'm not saying everyone does it I ran into I killer who quit cuz of my team perks, and same goes with me being a killer people will quit when u have too good of a build
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Every game punishes a player the instance they disconnect with a competitve cooldown, even if it is the 1st, the 2nd or the 999th time he/she dc'es and this should be implemented here as well. If you order food then why are you playing the game? When you start a multiplayer game you take some responsibilities, so don't start a game if you know you can't finish it, at least in respect for the other 4 players playing, you will ruin their experience because of selfish reasons, as simple as that. And this should be a rule for every game, if you know you can't finish the match, don't queue for it.
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I thought that if survivors were punished for dc'ing then there'd be less survivors to play with which equals more wait times for games. People will dc regardless of the punishment. If they wanted to curb people from leaving games they should've never gave them the option.
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Lobby dodging has to be a thing until dedicated servers come up. I wont stay in a lobby with 150 ping or more and i feel like that accounts for most the lobby dodges. As far as DCs are concerned, they need to start figuring out WHY people are DC'ing. You can punish people for DC'ing people will find a way. Easiest is to suicide on first hook.
As long as things like 5 blink nurses, prayer bead spirit, iri head huntress and mori's are in the game, people will DC.
You cant just incorporate unfun addons/perks/offerings and expect people to roll with it
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If they kill themselves on 1st hook, you report them for unsportsmanlike, easy.
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I wait 10 minutes as a survivor with my friends to play a game just to be dodged and forced to wait another 10 minutes because the killer was too much of a pussy to face me and my friends. I don't play this game to play lobby simulator. I've had days where I get dodged every other game for using a damn flashlight.
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My SWF mate and I almost never get dodged. Try not bringing in items, that usually does the trick.
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I don't see why I should be forced to not bring in my items just to play the game. I should be able to use them all I want without having to worry about getting dodged every time I load into a lobby. It amazes me people are still scared of flashlights in 2019. I really think there should be a minor penalty for dodging. Not as severe as DC'ing, but still a small punishment. The only time I think its acceptable is when pings are crappy. Maybe they could make it so you can back out if someone's ping is over a certain mark. Like 300.
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Nobody's forcing you to do anything. It's just a piece of friendly advice based on my own experience with lobby dodging.
Bottom line is, the devs probably aren't going to punish anyone for dodging, so you can either try to prevent it by yourself, or you can play lobby simulator.
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I know. I'm saying that there needs to be something done so I don't have to prevent it. I should be able to load into a lobby and get ready to play a game, not be dodged every time. Like I said, I shouldn't have to not bring in items just so I don't get dodged. This Is why I believe a small punishment for dodging is needed.
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And I know punishments don't work. See, for example, the chaser emblem change.
Maybe if you'd give killers some bonus BP when survivors brought in items or were playing SWF you could curb dodging, but you'll never get rid of it unless you create bots.
Killers are players too - what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for them, and like any normal human being, they'll avoid things that aren't fun.
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@Aven_Fallen Lobby dodging because of too many items is not a silly reason. Too many toolboxes or insta-heals simply are unbalanced. Not everybody has an ebony mori to bring to even the odds.
"Killers (and Survivors) need to accept that not every game will be winnable." No, no, no. A player should always be able to win when he is more skilled than his opponent. When items decide the outcome of a match and not skill, then there is something fundamentally wrong.
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Nope. It'd just drive killers away as survivors forced them to play unbalanced matches.
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I mean I lobby dodge on both sides, mostly for ping on survivor. Only times I dodge as killer is if it's clearly an SWF with all matching names. Those tend to be more toxic than not. Bonus points if I see a lot of items (though often I'll just switch something out for franklin's instead) or if you have a VAC ban on record. But I really only dodge if everyone matches in some way (all clauds, all similar names, etc) But I don't really see the problem with lobby dodging for either side.
As a survivor I'm not playing in anything 150+ ping, and as killer I'd rather not spend a quarter hour getting tugged around because I'm not very good. AFAIK there's nothing toxic about me wanting to play a game with (supposedly) toxic people.
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I guess it's okay for me to DC. I should not have to face a prayer Beads Spirit and have to face punishment for it.
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That's nowhere near on the same level as survivors who are just there to make killers as miserable as possible.
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Technically one is leaving before a match and one is leaving during it. So... Yeah. You should face punishment for it? As a survivor main and if you dc because of prayer bead spirit or iri head huntress I don't blame the killer, I blame you.
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I play more solo than swf.
I rarely bring items.
As a killer i never dodge, no matter what.
Last but not least: swf, items and everything are all intended features. If you think you can't take it then switch to pve games, and don't forget to set them on easy mode to feel more comfortable.
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Maybe i don't get kicked as much as you do because i got better by not dodging swf
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Prayer Beads are the most miserable thing in this game to face as survivor.
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Point is, he's saying he shouldn't be punished for not playing against something he doesn't want to play against. That's why I said that.
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I disagree, but, again, there's a difference between someone who intentionally goes out of their way to troll you and someone who does something you happen to dislike.
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Lmao i'm wrong for not dodging and being against it, ok :)
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Prayer Beads to me are more miserable than playing against a 4 Man Sweat squad. That's my opinion though. Someone who trolls is just as bad as someone who bring Prayer Beads in my eyes
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And, for the third time, there's a big difference between someone who's out to ruin your day and someone who unintentionally does something that ruins it.
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You might be a gamer but you certainly are not a pvper.
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Ok so are you done? Finally...
Bye
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A pvper wants balanced games where both sides have a fair chance winning and skill will decide the outcome of the match.
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At least there's something you can do about it as a killer though. Don't let them make you miserable and beat them. Too bad you can't do that verse Prayer Beads.
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Yeah, and some Killer Add-Ons are also unbalanced. So can I please have the option to know who is the Killer and what he will be running?
Franklins Demise-->I will unequip my Item.
Omega Blink-->I will Dodge
Prayer Beads-->I will dodge
Iridescent Head Huntress-->I will dodge
"Not everyone has an ebony mori to bring to even the odds"... I am playing not that much Killer, but even I have a good stack of Ebony Moris. In fact, when I wanted to use an Ivory Mori for one player, I did not have one, but 35 Ebonys. And that is only on one of my Killers. They are not as rare as they should be, especially on Killers which have no Pink Add-Ons.
Every game is winnable at the start. But when I play Trapper, I cannot expect to have the same results when I play Spirit. I need to expect that it will be way more work for me. Same as Survivor, if I go into a game Solo, I will need to play way more optimal than I would when I would play in a 4 man SWF.
It is simply a shame that Killers can cherrypick their Lobbies. Maybe it will not bother me, when Dedicated Servers arrive and I do not need to rejoin everytime (I think on one PTB I was in a Lobby and no Killer was present. So maybe when Killers leave the Lobby, the Survivors stay in there. But when I get dodged 10 times in a row (which happend more often than it is funny), even if I am not the reason, it is simply annoying. And well, if Players lose more often, they will derank eventually, getting to Ranks where they belong.
EDIT: And not to forget: Why should Survivors not be allowed to use Items? They spent Bloodpoints on them... I mean, I never use Keys, but I have 30 Pink and 30 Purple Keys on my Main. This is 360k BPs there which is simply dumped into the Trash. Not to mention all the Key Add-Ons.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on1 -
This game is quite well balanced (not perfect) and both roles have broken op stuff. If as a survivor i don't have any problem with ebony moris, prayer beads and stuff i expect the same treatment with my instaheals, keys or whatever (and the same when playing as a killer).
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Prayer Beads are extremely strong. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about them as a survivor. It's pretty much like OmegaBlink.
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Please for the love of god don't use them lmao
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The reason survivor had the option to see killers profiles removed was due to many abusing it to cherry pick what they played versus.
Dodging for anything which is in the game and fair to use really shouldn't be an option. People should be able to play with who and what they like as long as it's allowed by the game.
While dcing is a worse act both are being used to avoid playing versus something they don't like. The only acceptable reason to dodge is ping anything else equates to cherry picking a game plain and simple.
Both sides dislike many things the other has and this argument will never go away but to say it's ok for one side to dodge as "its not fun" and the other has to deal with it for me is being highly hypocritical.
This is why we can't have nice things in DBD as the community ends up just abusing what they give to try and help them.
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@Aven_Fallen The problem is the imbalance. Imbalance is unfairness. You are correct when you say that Trapper is not as strong as Spirit, for example. A Spirit might be able to handle 2 toolboxes, Trapper won't - a very good example for imbalance.
Why should a killer have to play an unfair game? Imagine forcing one football team to play with 7 players while the other team is allowed to play with 11. It doesn't make sense to even start playing that game.
And of course survivors are allowed to want to use their items. It's not the survivors fault that this game is unbalanced. But it isn't the killer's either.
If killers weren't allowed to dodge, survivors would bring even more toolboxes and insta-heals, creating more frustrating experiences for killers. Less people would play killer. That's not the way to go. We don't need punishments for lobby dodging, we need a balanced game.
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The closest I've seen to what I was trying to say in the original post
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"This game is quite well balanced" and "both roles have broken op stuff" can't both be true at the same time. (The latter statement is correct.)
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If only one side had broken op stuff then it wouldn't be balanced, that's why i said it is.
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That is not how balance works.
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K
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So like here's a real question for survivors.
Why is it I'll have 3 survivors with 30-60 ping and then have that one with 100+ why can't that one leave vs forcing me to leave and "lobby Dodge"
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Re: Imbalance:
DBD will NEVER be 100% balanced. It is simply not possible to balance SWF vs Solos, good Killers vs bad Killers and RNG. DBD is currently the closest ot Balance as it ever was and there will be more Buffs for Killers and more Nerfs for Survivors in the Future, I am sure about that. I mean, just look at the recent Chapters, Survivor Perks are gimmicky at its best (except for MoM, but that was a Cash Grab), while Killer Perks are at least solid and can actually be used ingame. Good example: Spirit vs Adam. Adam has at max Deliverance which can be decent, Autodidact is Trash and Diversion is gimmicky. Spirit Fury on the other hand is Meta, Haunted Ground also used quite often, Rancor situational. Same with Plague vs Jane. Plague has Corrupt Intervention which can be used on slow Killers (or in general), Infectious Fright which is godlike on Nurse. Her last Perk is Trash, but two of three Perks of Jane are Trash as well, while Head On is funny, but too weak and unreliable.
Re: Unfair game:
tbh, competitive Football Teams cannot really choose who to verse. I mean, Panama had to play vs England at the World Cup 2018. They cannot say "Nah thats too hard, can we play vs Saudi Arabia instead?". And this should not be the same Case for Killers. They need to adapt. I mean, vs Items, they even have a Perk, but as I already mentioned, it is apparently only ok for Killers to say to Survivors that they should use Mediocre Perks (like Small Game) and not the other way round. I mean, what is the problem? Then dont use your BBQ which you only use for Double BP anyway, because your Killer is too slow to actually make something out if it, and equip Franklins instead. But this seems to be no option. Rather dodge than adapt and prepare.
Re: Usage of Items
When I get dodged for using a Toolbox, I am obviously not allowed to use Items. I mean, I only use Medkits most of the time, I suck at Flashlights, I think Key are too unfair and I dont need Toolboxes. But those are Millions worth of BPs, I basically cannot use. The time I save in a game with my Toolbox does not equal the time I need to search for a Lobby. It is a farce that Survivors need to renounce on Items, because Killers would dodge otherwise. And those who still want to use their Flashlights (like, Flashlights are not a problem anymore...) they switch at last second, which is also Bullshit. But they "need" to do that, because otherwise they would be dodged, because apparently it is too hard to look at Walls these days.
(This sounds like a Rage from me, but this is just my way of arguing. Please dont take it personally, I really appreciate your opinion and I know that you are open-minded, but still, lobby-dodging is something that really bothers me, especially because I know from myself that Killers can have fun without doing it)
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I am still waiting for option to diselect maps and killers you dont want to play on or against, today i ve only goten the game, lerry, red forest maps and spirit, billy, freddy killers. I play entire day today something like 6-7 hours and i am already tired of this.
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