Why do people want desperately a nerf to Spirit?
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Well when the best killer Nurse is getting "looked at" its only natural they'll go after the next strongest.
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Biased and unrealistic? What's the point of not using perks to gain advantage against the killers in general?
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I agree with the OP. Despite what some claim as having no counter play, she does indeed have counter play. But it's not as easy as other killers because you need to have good prediction and reading skills. You have to understand what is the most optimal choice and take it. You can't hesitate either, you need to make a decision and do it ASAP. The longer you wait to do something the more likely she will get you. Sometimes making a bad decision quickly is better than making a good decision slowly. Remember she has to track you while she can't see you, and scratch marks take about a second to pop up. You have room to work with that.
Also, people fail to understand a very important thing about Spirit... she can't vault during phase walk. That means windows and downed pallets are your safest option to counter her, even to loop her. While most of the really strong window loops are just good in general against almost any killer, they are ESPECIALLY effective against Spirit because she has to stop phase walk to vault, or waste her power trying to cut you off. Unlike Hag she can't break the loop. Unlike Nurse she can't just ignore the loop and teleport through the wall. Unlike Huntress she can't get a cheeky long range hit at certain angles (which to be fair Huntress is still hurt badly by these loops too, just making a point that she's actually better at those loops than Spirit). So if you want to consistently beat a good Spirit, use windows. LT windows are not nearly as good, and neither are jungle gyms, but depending on the context they can work. If you run to a pallet drop it right away, because pallets are not safe against a Spirit.
I seriously can't tell you how many survivors, who I've played and are really good loopers, just become complete potatoes against Spirit. It's like their brain just leaks out their ears. Too many survivors just run blindly and don't even try to predict you, some survivors overthink it and do really dumb stuff to try and mind game you, and other survivors don't seem to understand stealth at all. Then there are those few chosen ones that actually understand what to do and do it well and consistently. I had a game the other day I was trying a fun build (Insidious, MYC, Prayer Beads, you can figure it out) and I got a group of players I'm friends with. I decided I will play normally and then ease up, mess around, and let them go because I know PB Spirit is lame and my build was super lame. Anyway, one of them I chased around a small pallet loop for literally like 2 minutes. Granted I was screwing around trying to mind game her, but she didn't fall for ANY of it. I could have easily brute forced the loop, either normal chase or in phase walk, but I was practicing stuff. She predicted everything I did, avoided getting hit for a very long time, and had that been a normal game I would say that she was the reason they all survived (outside of me just letting them survive) because she occupied a lot of my time as this one loop.
These survivors exist, and counter play does indeed exist against Spirit. Her power is not infallible, it's just very hard to wrap your head around.
You know there is almost always an optimal choice that she can't beat right? If you see her standing still walk away and break LOS. If she is phasing, no scratch marks. If she is not, you force her to either chase normally or phase after you without knowing your exact position.
People don't understand that it's not really a guessing game as much as it is a calculation of the available options. There isn't an infinite amount of things she can do in that situation, there are 2. Stand there and wait, or phase walk. And unless you are in a really bad spot most of the time you can get away by just saying to yourself "well if I do this, she will have a harder time tracking me in phase walk and I can use that time to make it to this next loop". It really isn't rocket science. The problem is survivors overthink these things and do really stupid stuff like vault the pallet into her face or try to hide in plain view, or just take off running with no care whatsoever.
I've been able to consistently beat good Spirit's that use the stand still mind game. And as Spirit, I've had many survivors that don't fall for a single trick I try to pull. They force me to either brute force the loop in a normal chase, or always phase walk and do what is most predictable.
It indeed is a mind game, one that survivors mostly do to themselves. There is always an optimal choice that will greatly reduce the effectiveness of this trick.
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Okay I've read through this thread and I'm trying to figure this out. I started using spirit about lets say 3 weeks ago and gotten ok with her i think. (killer rank 10 prior to recent reset) Now I'm new and am probably ignorant but i don't see the need for any nerf(YET). I've used prayer beads and didn't see much of a difference in game out come(the first time used i actually got destroyed). I didn't feel super op or anything. I can however see how it would seem so if you had other killer perks so are we just talking high tier play here? I know scooping someone off a gen when they thought you were chasing someone makes people fairly salty.....
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Because she happens to pose a slight threat to the survivors' toxic and abusive playstyle.
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Spirit does not move grass/corn when she phase walks. I have proof on my wall.
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Because some players just want it easy for them and more fun for them, instead of learning how to go against the killer and counters. Spirit is the most balance killer yet, aside from prayer beads a little cause that has a counter to it, next to that is huntress but no map pressure and then nurse
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I'm just going to copy what I said in a different thread a while back:
My problem with the spirit is the lack of mindgames. You heard me right, there are no mindgames on the survivor side playing against spirit.
- You can't know where she's coming from. Hearing footsteps is near impossible if you're working on a gen or you're running or even just injured.
- If you know she's phasing and you try to trick her by double backing, she'll just run into you because she has collision for whatever reason.
- As I said, no mindgames really. It's just a guessing game. Say she's chasing you and you vault a window and she walks up to it. She could be vaulting it, phasing or standing still and there is no way to know which she is doing. Also, she can hear your sounds way too easily and can just phase right on you, so you basically need to use a window or a pallet every time, but because the spirit knows this she will go for those specific things. Going for a pallet is a 50/50 and you can rarely make it to a window. (and she might even cut you off)
- Passive phasing. Even looping turns into a guessing game instead of a mindgame. When you're looping her and her stain suddenly disappears you can't know if she just turned around to double back, or if she just got passive phasing. This is even more dumb because of the fact that she doesn't know when she is passively phasing so she can't use it to her advantage purposefully
- With everything mentioned above, her speed after phasing is pretty insane especially with addons. This makes it so that even if you managed to make her think you went somewhere else she will almost always catch up to you regardless.
- Prayer beads.
Those are my main problems with the spirit. Now I don't want her overly nerfed, but I want the devs to introduce some sort of a way to tell what the spirit is doing, that way surviving is not just rolling the die and hoping that you get lucky, but an actual representation of skill.
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Actually, Huntress is still weaker than Spirit against these buildings, just yesterday I saw a Huntress being afraid of putting a offering for Autohaven Wreckers just because she might get Wretched Shop, LMAO.
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That's debatable, my point is that these loops are very strong against Spirit, more than all other killers (except Huntress). And unlike all other killers, she can't bring Bambo because that shows when she vaults a window so she loses some mind game potential, meaning she might get better at these loops at the cost of being worse at other loops. Not worth it IMO.
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There are perks that counter her power
if your at a loop and you know that she is using her power or think she is, don't stay at the loop, go to another nearby one
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Rin_Yamaoka read her power for that collision
passive phasing is there to help her confused the survivors more then it being used to mindgame, and its called PASSIVE for a reason, your not really suppose to have full control of it
Sooooooo you want her to be weak as wraith? and remember, its only her addons that change that, but you barely see anyone use those addons, and her base speed when she comes out of her power is not insane at all
prayer beads eh it still have a counter to one thing and when being chased? its no different
My main point is that her power is greatly in her hands, not in the survivors hands cough Ghost face and plague cough and its for the survivors to do their best to work around it and counter it
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- Agreed i think she needs a thing like Wraith like when hes invisible
- Its more effective after breaking line of site or not going strait back. I think that's more of a situational awareness thing then anything else IMO.
- I disagree i feel survivors mind game themselves. I even have done it and i play spirit. The passive phasing is RNG based without additional addons to make it more frequent(correct me if Im wrong)
- I didnt know her stain disappeared while passive phasing(Does it really?) it does during regular phasing though.
- She does move pretty quick but is not something that she can spam and still takes a bit of skill to pull off. Its not a guaranteed thing that she's going to find you just because she's fast.
- i think this is overrated as you need the right perks to make it great instead of just helpful. again IMO I'm probably just bad at the game.
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Actually, these loops are very strong against majority of the killers, even 115% speed killers usually avoid chasing survivors on strong buildings ( Ironworks of Misery, Disturbed Ward, Grim Pantry, Haddonfield ), because they are too time wasting even for them.
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You need to re-read my comments.
I'm not saying these loops aren't strong. I'm saying they are STRONGER against Spirit than other killers for the exact reason she is forced to end phase walk and vault, or continue phase walk and cut you off potentially wasting it.
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I was literally going to say the same things here.....Thank you!
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But if she cuts you off it isn't wasting. Also, she can deal with them better than other killers with certain add-ons.
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But by trying to cut you off she takes a gamble that you will continue the loop. If you run from the loop, or take a different path she won't catch you. Also unless she has MDR at some of these loops she can't make it all the way around in a single phase, especially if she was already phasing before you got to the window. So even if she predict right, she will be ending her phase walk long before she gets back around to you, which means you are now getting chased by a 110 killer.
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Sometimes she still catches up before you vault that window, depending on the add-ons she has, how far are you to the loop and your positioning. I saw plenty of Spirits hitting survivors right before jumping on the Grim Pantry window.
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Survivors uh uh uh get gud. Nothing needs a nerf from Spirit. Not even prayer beads. I've played so many games where the beads didn't do crap to good players. Just crouched away during gens and she'd appear too late everytime lol
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"Balanced"
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Wait. I only thought people want Prayer Beads nerfed. (which i kinda agree on)
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Spirit doesn't take skill lmao
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I think you misspelled "looping".
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Ah yes, because Spirit sure takes a lot of skill to use! Standing still is very difficult btw
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Because against a “good” spirit (and by a good spirit i mean a spirit with headphones) the survivors skill is ignored as long as the spirits power is off cooldown.
Not saying she needs any nerfs, but spirit is incredibly boring to play against for that reason.
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Because People crying over everything.Killers should ALWAYS stronger as Survivor's.
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She's been around for a while and now they want the devs to nerf her? I bet these are some new players or just some players that like to complain about everything.
And agian she's been around for a while and now they say this?
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Plz tell me there not nerfing her plz noooo:(
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Because killers will always complain that mindgames and loops requires them to use skill. Whiney little cry babies and nothing more. So fed up of this forum
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Mate, every time I see you, it's cringe.
I'm not running one of the worst perks in the game in the case of facing ONE out of SIXTEEN killers.
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And I can't wait, not for Nurse because I find her fine but for Spirit.
She can get outta here :D
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Couldn't have said it better myself
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Yeah guess I'll "stand still" as survivor and let you kill me 🙂
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Spine Chill is far from the worst perk in the game. It's actually one of the best. It gives you so much info, it hard counters stealth killers and PB Spirit, it can help you make better plays against Nurse. Spine Chill is a great perk dude.
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First off, spine chill is useful against like Two killers (Spirit and GF)
Secondly, every red rank survivor (minus a few) know when and when not to get off a gen or stop healing if a killer is coming straight to them.
Spine Chill is useless against more than half the killer roster.
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Why do people always bring the difficult topic? When I play survivor idgaf If you are a skilled Huntress ir Billy btw
This game has diferent playstiles
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Prayer Beads get countered by Spine Chill. I don't see a problem.
Spine Chill is a useful perk in general so not a waste of a slot.
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You came here with 0 arguments, just being sassy with everyone lol
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They aren't even remotely comparable. One makes hiding even slightly possible while injured. The other turns the entire game into cheese where, from the get go, you can be instantly grabbed and hooked with 0 warning. It simply isn't fun, nor fair gameplay.
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What can I say? It's what I do
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Plz tell me she's not getting g nerfed plz noooooo :( why are they saying this now
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LOL No it's useful against every killer dude. It's not just about getting off a gen, it's knowing which path is the safe one during a chase. Or when the killer is looking at a hook when you are about to rescue. Or when they see you with BBQ or Nurse's or other aura reading.
It is far from useless. If you think that I seriously question your abilities as survivor.
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@Freudentrauma that was my suggestion.
Btw for the long distance thing you could make it so the trail only lasts a finite distance, specifically it could last only within your terror radius.
Thus if you phase walk in a straight line then the trail only will last for 2/3rds of the distance traveled. But if you phasewalk to a survivor 10 meters away (such as in a chase) then the entire trail would be visible.
As a consequence that means if you phase walk 25 meters out and then move over a bit before heading back towards your husk then the trail will be discontinuous.
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The existence of a wrong guess implies that there is also a right guess.
And if there is a guess at all then the Spirit has to make the same set of guesses.
The details are irrelevant. If the Spirit can't guarantee a hit on reaction and you can't guarantee a miss on a reaction then you can have a mindgame.
Standing still in this case is a great example of a mindgame because outside of the psychological aspect there is no strategical advantage to doing it. The only reason to stand still is to make your opponent think you aren't standing still, and if the opponent correctly predicts this fact then they get a ton of free distance, enough to avoid a hit.
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All mindgames eventually boil down to a guess, no matter what type of mindgame it is.
This is why you can have success with things like moonwalking simply by flipping a coin to decide of you are going to fake it or not.
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This kind of IS how the Forums work:
Nurse will get looked at.
Survivors will decide if she's been 'nerfed enough'
If no:
Keep complaining
If yes:
Target Spirit next.
Spirit will get looked at.
Survivors will decide if the nerfs are enough, etc.
If yes: Target Billy next.
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the skill cap for spirit is how much money you spend on your headphones
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I use dead hard, Adrenaline, DS and currently WGLF because I want Bill levelled up (PS4).
I've done fine without Spine Chill l, just because I dislike Spine Chill doesn't mean you should doubt my abilities as a survivor, I for one find it useless and it really doesn't help in a chase because when a killer moonwalk they aren't looking at you so spine chill doesn't activate.
It's useless for my playstyle, my playstyle is to distract the killer, not be an Urban Evading Meg who can't loop with Sprint Burst and Spine Chill
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Every killer apart from Spirit is fine for me
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No, this infinite rock paper scissors logic doesn't work out. As you go into the match you understand the killer, if he double backs often, moonwalks, you can use these informations, since the red stain gives you informations even when you don't see it. The only way to tell if Spirit is phasing is trying to blind her. Plus, standing still hasn't any downsides, if they GUESS right, and leave the loop, you just phase back and reach them instantly.
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