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Let's try the camping punishment again
You guys remember that the devs tried the camping punishment in a PTB. The plan was to slow down the hook timer to give the remaining survivors more time for gens and totems.
A lot of people stated that it got abused. I personally haven't played that many matches back then in the PTB, but the matches when the killer actually camped it was working fine.
I personally think it needed that tweak: if another survivor is around x meters of the hooked survivor, the timer goes down in normal speed.
I think we should give it a try. The hatch closing didn't work the first time but now it's working and is quite balanced. We should give the slow down camping punishment a second chance.
Comments
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Your tweak literally changes nothing.
Survivors could simply wait outside "x" meters just like before.
You admit yourself you didn't play many games during that PTB, so why should we consider your recount as valid reason to give this mechanic a second chance?
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Fully agree. We should at least try it to see if it can get abused. I mean it's already implemented for the chaser emblem.
You would have to add the conditions that if a killer is in a chase, or if the exit gates are powered, those penalties also don't apply anymore. But I fully agree that we should try this on the ptb.
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PSA: When one of their teammates is getting camped, the other survivors have a very simple counter they more often than not refuse to utilize: focusing on the remaining generators. This counter produces a 75% win-rate for them, which in any normal game would be considered insanely overpowered and in need of a sledgehammer-nerf.
Post edited by Acromio on11 -
no thanks, i dont want the game to cater to survivors even more
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What he said ^^^
There’s already a severe punishment for camping, 1 dies and 3 escape free. Camping results in an auto-loss.
Besides, there’s plenty of ways to counter camping. Just have your whole team run BT and DS, If thr killer chooses to camp, all 4 can still get out if you take turns on hook.
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For the same reason why hatch closing got a second chance.
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Noed.
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The problem is that this system does not reliably detect actual camping from tactical defending the hook. Sometimes killers think there is someone near the hook, while in reality no one is nearby. They then search the area for no one. In that case the killer would get punished, just because they have got a wrong gut feeling.
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There's not really any way to detect legitimate "mindless" camping any better than the emblem penalty already does. Obviously just standing in front of someone with 5 gens up is pointless, a bad play and 90% of the time either a new player or someone fishing for reactions, but once you throw in stuff like survivors being nearby, what part of the match it happens in and more it becomes too complicated for a simple algorithm to deal with it in a way that can't be abused and worked around by EITHER side.
Educate survivors on the fact they should just do gens if someone gets camped, educate killers on how hard camping at the wrong time can be heavily punished as well, and incentivize aggressive actions towards other survivors with BP modifiers, emblem points or whatever else. It's not a thing that can just be forced away with automated systems.
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I personally think it needed that tweak: if another survivor is around x meters of the hooked survivor, the timer goes down in normal speed.
It's a double edged sword, since it would allow the killer to know someone is near and he can freely camp because at least 2 survivors are off the gens.
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I can't be defending camping in EVERY post :-P
Do gens, let one survivor die and the rest will be able to escape.
Those survivors are relentless, swarming the forum like they swarm the hooks.
Is it swarming the only thing you know how to do you little insects?! It does not usualy work with the hooks, it won't work with the forum!
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Yeah this kind of thing would just cause an exodus of newer killers , and make everyone feel once again the game is heavily survivor biased as scummy playstyles by survivors are always rewarded in some manner..so why should killer be forced to play only 1 way? Now I am not saying I dont think camping is crappy , just saying you cant tell one side they can play any way they want and not the other
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@justarandy except they added the EGC, preventing survivors from holding the game hostage once the hatch is closed.
I agree camping is boring, but it's a strategy nonetheless. Hiding forever wasn't.
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'Camping was abused...Let's let people do that again!'
Hard pass.
I love that everyone claims 'Camping will chase away new Survivors' & offer solutions that would chase away new Killers...But these same people never mention that part. 🤔
It's almost like they don't really care about balance or the health of the game. They just want to skew the power dynamic more towards Survivor & get something they can abuse.
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So long as we are talking about nonsense that shouldn't be in the game, why don't we try Nurse with 3 blinks base and increased movement speed again?
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The hatch closing was never not going to be given a second chance.........
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This isn't entirely true. It is how fast the first survivor goes down that decides how many survivors die. Sometimes it's a good survivor and 3 escape and other times the survivor is bad and gets caught fast without any gens being done which can result in the death of other survivors due to lack of time to complete generators.
Also, in any "normal" game, something like this wouldn't be nerfed because by camping the killer is basically throwing the match.
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This would make Steve's perk useless
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Punish campers by gen rushing their sorry asses.
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I bet that pretty much everybody on these forums knows that. That's simply missing the point. It's not about balance, it's about design. And how less experienced survivors don't know how to punish camping effectively. If the killer has Ruin and NOED as well, that just makes things much harder on them. It's just awfully unfun to get camped, and the devs should at least try and reduce the number of camping killers by making it less effective, even against less experienced players.
Those people want to enjoy the game as well, and will just leave the game if they aren't having fun. And this game is in dire need of more survivor players, as killer queue times prove.
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But many people don't know that, or realise to late that a killer is campig. If the killer has Ruin and NOED, it'll be so much harder as well.
We need to think about less experienced players as well, and how to maybe get more people playing survivors again, since killer queue times are much longer than that of survivors, and nerfing camping is probably the best way to do this, since it doesn't nerf skilled killers.
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Once again, there are ways to implement a punishment without survivors abusing it. Bringing up that on instance where the devs tried a punishment won't prove anything at all.
I'm pretty sure that camping drives away more survivors than having camping being nerfed will drive killers away. Getting camped pretty much makes it so you can't play the game anymore until the end of the match. Killer's can still play the game normally, and if they are led into that direction of not camping, they might get better at the game.
Killer queue times are far longer than survivor queue times right now, we shouldn't just ignore that.
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I think it should be:
1. If the killer is within 31 meters of a hooked survivor the killers aura should be revealed to all survivors (so Make Your Choice 32 meters is still a viable option)
2 If a killer is within 16 meters of a hooked survivor and the survivor dies struggling the survivor is re-spawn or the hatch could open
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While camping sucks for the person on hook, it has a huge benefit to your team. In all honesty, what screws over survivors more is when they suicide/DC on the hook. That's what you should be more upset about. Not the killer wasting time.
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Oh hell no! Nothing. NOTHING should give a Survivor a free life. This is a joke of an idea.
Imagine chasing someone who's going for an unhook; now you have to either let them, or let the Survivor respawn because you were lead too close & he gave up struggling on purpose.
Same goes for hatch opening. That idea is about as terrible as they come.
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If he\she gave up struggling on purpose they don't get re-spawn you forget
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Hatch closing was introduced as an idea the devs wanted to try out to stop hatch stand offs and they were imo much worse than camping. They didnt have the EGC during that time so the survivors during that test would hide until the killer gave up or sslooooowwlllly work on a gate. what fixed this was a 2 minute timer that put a stop to the game now please give us an idea on what could fix camping without it being easily exploitable. This is not just for you but anyone reading this that thinks they have an idea that could solve camping.
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I agree and disagree with the statement you replied to because, yes its true that gens are a counter, but the poor person who sat there waiting possibly ages getting into the game gets no points and has their gameplay experience ruined, it's not fun at all for the person being camped nor is it rewarding for them at all.
maybe giving the hooked person points for being a distraction as they are camped could help alleviate it without adding more punishments for the person on the hook, but not tons of points.
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spoken like a substitute teacher who doesn't understand the material.
if you're watching me get camped and you're trying to focus on gens and rush out at my expense, all i can say is LUL..
hope you get better at the game at some point, but the only thing i can guarantee is that i'm not gonna stick around to find out if that point happens to be the current match..
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they do give that guy that died quickly on the hook more points.. they're just waiting to be claimed by loading into the next game..
think about it, 892 max struggle points, takes a minute to claim.. if you use that minute to load into a new game there'll probably be a totem worth 1000 right next to you when you spawn..
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Lets go over the options.
Option 1, the survivors not being camped, just hammer out gens. Sure, the person on the hook dies, but every other survivor escapes, gets great points, and the killer loses the match and maybe after they get ######### on enough, they start to change their playstyle for the better.
Option 2, nah, hard pass on that because it totally means one survivor has to die! Lets add back in an element to the hook that was already tried and already abused by survivors. We screw over the killer and make it even more survivor sided than it already is. Killers get frustrated and stop playing killer = ???? = PROFIT
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And that perspective there is the biggest problem for survivors. This is a team game on survivor side. Why do you think they are trying bring solos up to swf knowledge levels.
Being selfish on survivor side is almost like working with the killer in the advantage it gives you.
Survivors complain about 'toxic' killers, and ruin and noed and bloodlust. Y'all are the biggest handicaps to yourselves that I've seen.
Everyone complains about moris. Hell suiciding and DCing is just a mori that the killer doesn't have to burn an offering for.
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I would be ok with a survivor being camped getting points for everything that was accomplished while being there, much like in a chase.
That would be more than fair i think.
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you are correct. this is a team game on survivor side, yes.
"Being selfish on survivor side is almost like working with the killer in the advantage it gives you."
what advantage does it give me being paired with survivors who still think turning on a generator while watching me die is a good idea for any reason they might make up?
"Survivors complain about 'toxic' killers, and ruin and noed and bloodlust. Y'all are the biggest handicaps to yourselves that I've seen."
if i am providing myself a huge handicap by leaving a game where my own team are choosing to allow me to be "sacrificed" for no legitimate reason, why are you the one complaining about me doing it on the forum? again i put it to you and all others that if you have written me off as a "distraction" or whatever you want to call it, i could care less about providing you anything at all, much less another full minute or more of my life. you really shouldn't even be in a game with someone on my level.
"Everyone complains about moris. Hell suiciding and DCing is just a mori that the killer doesn't have to burn an offering for."
personally i don't complain about moris, i like them. i complain about people who dc from those matches because they think moris are "toxic" partially because i understand that you thinking something is "toxic" for whatever reason equates to little more than "i've heard a brittney spears song a few times and thought it was fitting"..
things people call "toxic" are really just a one word description of things they don't like personally. i could flip it around and say avoiding moris are "toxic", leaving people on hooks to die is "toxic".
to me, stealth play in general is "toxic".. to stealth players, i'm "toxic" or "bullying the killer" because i'm not wasting more than half of my life practicing to be an inanimate object.
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Theres a difference between leaving someone to die on hook because you can't be bothered to rescue them and not being able to because killer is face camping. Yes a well coordinated team will have no problems whatsoever in rescuing even against a facecamper, but for solo players more than likely they wont be able to deal with a face camper.
I amend my statement because sometimes i forget there aren't any absolutes. Theres a difference between trying and sitting in a corner of the map going into and out of lockers to avoid stillness crows. Situations change. Although as a survivor who plays solo, i would much rather they get the generators they are working on finished before coming after me. That's just good time and objective management. It avoids the killer coming by and regressing it and losing all the progress.
As for me complaining on the forums, i will do my best to rescue you, but again, as a solo survivor, there is only so much i can do. And if im being camped i will get every last BP of struggle points as i can and waste as much time as i can for the rest of my team. If im playing, that means i have nothing else to do and 2 minutes of hanging around isn't that big a deal for me.
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and that just ruins the other survivors chances of surviving by letting yourself die as the next one will get camped, people who are being forced to serve as a distraction or taken hostage should be given something for their time.
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I dont mind campers to much, i think it is boring and annoying for the camped survivor, but i get that some like this "strategy". Still, many people hate campers, and especially new players are getting demotivated by those people quickly.
So i got this idea:
Instead of increasing the Hook timer for the camped survivor, how about increasing repair speed if a Killer is to long next to a hook? Also after like 45 seconds of straight facecamping, the aura of the killer gets revieled to all survivors.
That would Encourage survivor to rush generators, make them aware of the situation and wont give the Killer anything. Killers will loose interest in that method rather quick (maybe not the hardcore douchbags).
What do you think about that?
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@csandman1977 and @Rokku_Rorru
let me quote sandman right quick so we're on the same page..
"Theres a difference between leaving someone to die on hook because you can't be bothered to rescue them and not being able to because killer is face camping. Yes a well coordinated team will have no problems whatsoever in rescuing even against a facecamper, but for solo players more than likely they wont be able to deal with a face camper."
---> sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for newer players to attempt to learn a new skill and begin their journey towards being a better player.. handing them a tool to make it more comfortable for them to remain lousy players just doesn't sound like a good idea at all..
why should the other players get extra opportunity to "survive", "escape", or anything else when they're not skilled enough to make that happen?
when i'm new at anything, i have to learn how to do whatever it is. if i don't attempt to learn how to do it, or even just portions of it, i'm only hurting myself and everyone around me. see how that works? it's not the people around you hurting you, its you hurting them..
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what about we make it so if killer is in 32m it slows but if another survivor is in those 32m it goes normally, steves new perk works that way and so does an emblem to discourage camping they have what they need to make it happen
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Well, if he stands outside of that radius, whats the issue? The killer can chase him and the hook timer goes down normal speed again
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@justarandy you don't see the problem with being forced to give free unhooks?
Yes, it sucks, but sometimes defending the hook is the right play. Killers shouldn't be punished for playing smart.
It's also not guaranteed that you see the survivor waiting for you to leave, but it is guaranteed that you will be leaving.
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I agree that new players need a way to learn, but maybe it's an issue with hooks as they are fundementally, if there was a way to make them easy to get to, to hook survivors but more difficult to camp (maze like surroundings to make it easier to get an unhook), it's just there is a problem here and survivors should be faced with a leave them and have a better chance at living or take a risk and save them.
Camping isn't the biggest of issues unless it's done 10 seconds into the game, because the killer got an insta down/spirit or nurse just gets super lucky and it happens so often which is frustrating.
IDK the game is a mess recently connections wise, and gameplay wise, I am not the biggest fan of end game collapse as killer, I also hate that I'm punished for camping even though it feels like you need to sometimes, as survivor I hate gen rushing... I'm beginning to feel like maybe I'm just going off the game, the more I play the more I see flaws, which is naturual, I just wish the devs would take more time to fix the health of the game instead of always going "we're gonna do it"
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Tired of survivors' abusements especially like the old Legion's backwards chases (sarcasm)
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Maybe if the killer face camps the hook with no other survivors close by, the killer could receive Blood Point penalties which transfer to the hooked survivor. The other survivors could gain increased generator repair speed with less skill checks.
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no.
t h i n k - r e w a r d s - n o t - p u n i s h m e n t
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Nah.
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Pity for the camped is hard to muster. If your hooked before gaining your personal idea of enough points, then that's on you especially in early game when all of the pallets are up. Your experience after this is completely up to your team. Solo players just have to hope somebody is prepared or willing to take the chance.
If you really want a fix to this situation, its gonna have to be more enticing for the team then gen progression.
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