Perks Like The New Dying Light Are Going to Lead to Massive Issues.
Dying Light in and of itself is a fine perk. Possibly even meta. However, the fact that Sloppy Butcher and Thanataphobia already exist is what creates the problem.
Just thinking about it here, if you have everyone injured and 6 stacks of Dying Light (i.e. you've two-hooked every non obsession) then that means there's a 34% debuff to everyone besides the obsession.
Okay. Okay. So, what's the problem you ask? Survivors should have longer generator times, what's the big deal?
Assuming you know the math for how charges work, this is what a full Thanat and 6 stack Dying Light looks like on a generator:
80 / ( (1-0.16) * (1-0.18) ) = 116.14
116 seconds to complete a gen. 36 additional seconds.
At that point it becomes nearly pointless. Survivors have to spend so much time on a generator that it's braindead for a Killer to win. The Killer has A LOT more time. Unless the Survivors have multiple toolboxes, they aren't going anywhere.
This is just one of many examples, but there are very many cases, all different than this, but along the lines of "massive debuff".
Given this, what should happen? Should we nerf the perks? Should we put a cap on how slow interactions can be? Should we increase base interaction time to allow for larger debuffs?
Feel free to comment what you think, criticize me, or call me an idiot.
Comments
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Sloppy, Thanatophobia and Dying Light? How to fix that when injured? Don't heal lol.
Hex: Ruin slows the game down and requires you to play better, just live with it.
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No, Dying Light needs a buff. Thana is an extremely niche perk that adds a tiny de-buff. It is not worth it to take Dying Light and Thana. You forget that it is rather difficult to get 6 stacks of Dying Light. By that point, they should have completed at least three gens. If not, then you would have won anyway. Ergo, not a problem at all.
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Yep i even thought about using "Dying Light" instead of PGTW, but the debuff is too low. 5% should be fine. Maybe a cap of five stacks then. The stacks should stay, even if the obsession dies.
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"The Killer has A LOT more time."
Good. I'm glad you and I can agree this is a change for the better!
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Any survivors letting thana stack werent goung to heal anyways. Thus showing they dont care for that perk.
To get the whole benefit of dying light, the killer has to keep managing hooks and keep survivors alive for maximum stacks. Not to mention the obsession getting that buff and being immune to DL. (One of those boni for obsession wouldve been enough).
Keeping that line of thought, DL actually is detrimental to thanatophobia as the obsession buffs destroy any synergy.
Edit: how many generators might be done before a single stack of dl/ thana is aquired? Im hearing 2-3 during the first chase quite odten.
Post edited by Raptorrotas on2 -
By the time you get to that point there most likely only going to be one or two gens left to do.
There are like two possible scenarios I can see:
- you have one gen left to do with 4 survivor still alive. If you don't have a 3-gen cluster and a sufficently cleaned up map (aka pallets destroyed) then you won't be able to fend all of them off. If they stack on the gen then it will only take like ~50s (?) to finish the last one
- there are more than 2 gens left but there are only 2 survivors left. You already dominated and the remaining players won't even bother to think about finishing the gens anymore and just look for the hatch, so what does it matter that gens take longer.
You are giving up aura reading or chase perks to run Dying Light weakening your ability to get those hook stacks in the first place.
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Ruin hardly slows the game down, at top tier play. Good survivors can hit their greats.
I'm talking about how boring a longer bar makes the game. There isn't really a skill factor involved in making a charge bar take longer.
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That's certainly problematic seemingly, but frankly, I don't pay too much mind to it honestly. True, it takes nearly 2 minutes to do a single gen, but then again, we have waited longer to fix something. *Cough* no heal builds *cough*. So yeah, it does seem problematic, but ruin can essentially do the same thing, it's just based on if the survivor hits skill checks if they power through it.
And now you will soon destroy me with you telling me I'm painfully wrong.
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That's what I am talking about though, good survivors could care less about the debuff.
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That fixes nothing.
With Dying Light and Thanatophobia a gen will take like 100 seconds to finish.
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Body block and kill the obsession lol.
Seriously though, they'll end up killing the obsession some time.
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Then what. Two stacks of dying light and there is probably already 2 gens done.
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By the time you get six stacks for DL there will only be one or two gens left anyway.
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In your scenario, survivors would have to be getting caught way too quickly for the effect to happen on more than a gen or two. It's essentially 3 perks for the effect of Ruin late in the game. I can't imagine a killer is ending chases quickly with 3 perks that don't help in a chase.
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They should make a new classification of killer perks, similar to how Survivors have "Exhaustion" perks. A survivor can only be affected by one instance of these "slowing" perks.
To compensate, perks such as Thanatophobia and Dying Light should be buffed at least to "Ruin-level" to compensate for not being able to stack them. Thanatophobia hasn't been good as a stand-alone perk since it's creation except for with Plague and maybe Legion.
Post edited by HP150 on1 -
There needs to be a cap in my opinion. 25% action speed debuff should be the maximum. Then they could maybe even buff Dying Light to 4% per hook, so it's actually more useful on it's own but not op with Thana and Sloppy.
To be fair though, if a killer is able to get 34% slowdown with those perks, I feel like the killer would have won anyways, with other perks as well.
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Once the obsession dies the debuff is removed.
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"are going to lead to massive issues"
Wrong Dying Light is already causing the game to crash when hooking people.
<3
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Dying Light is anti-synergy with Thanataphobia.
Stacking the perks is a bad idea.
Also slowdown effects are multiplicative, not additive, so it's diminishing returns.
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EXACTLY.
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Not to mention perks like this are multiplied and not additive. So it's actualy even less than a 34% debuff
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yeah sorry bout that
0.18 * 0.16 is actually about 29%. So not that big a difference anyways.
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"Dying Light in and of itself is a fine perk. Possibly even meta. However, the fact that Sloppy Butcher and Thanataphobia already exist is what creates the problem."
And killer already using 3 perks just for that if they combine
"The Killer has A LOT more time"
Somewhere M1 killer especially Clown are crying in the corner
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@DingDongs just because the Killer "uses three perks" doesn't mean anything. I don't know why that's an argument people are using recently, but it's not a good one.
Just because a Killer uses three perks to make something broken or unfun doesn't mean it isn't broken or unfun.
P.S. 36 extra seconds makes a very big difference.
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So assuming you have all the stacks and the obession alive chances are your already in a winning position with killer in this scenario as everyone should be on death hook provided the killer didnt tunnel people down.
This also means by the time 6 stacks are active you should in theory have 2 to 4 gens done unless your team is full on potatoes with 5 gens remaining. If that's the case gonna be honest it wouldn't matter if Dying light was in the match or not.
The scenario you have presented us is in similar to a god nurse, Spirit, or Billy with Ruin. It's just there to guarentee the 4k. Yet it takes way to many perk slots to be effective.
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Um, yeah...
I think SWF can also do that with 3 perks combo that make killer unfun but sure...
*BT, DS, old MOM, Adrenaline flashback*0 -
@DingDongs I'm not being Killer or Survivor sided here.
I understand that both sides have game breaking, unfun combos, but this is a more prevalent one.
Due to the fact that these perks exist, and there could be more on the way. Right now it doesn't present that big a problem, but it will eventually.
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You act like survivors start the game all bloody and hooked twice. Try running this OP combo for a few games and see how it works in reality. See how many gens you have left by the time you get up to this 34% penalty. None of these perks help you win chases. No bamboozle, brutal strength, fire up, spirit's fury, enduring, nothing that gives exposed or helps tracks survivors.
You are using up your entire build to slow survivors down and the method requires winning chases. Also, survivors have plenty of perks that help counter thanataphobia. Adrenaline, Autodidact, Botany Knowledge, Inner Strength, Second Wind, Solidarity, and We'll Make it all help counter your build. If the survivors aren't trash then by the time your plan hits critical mass then the gens are already done.
Am I saying your build is dumb? Nah. It's worth playing around with. But there is a big difference between how something works in theory and how it plays out in reality. If it turns out to be meta then survivors already have the tools to counter it.
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