Torment Creek spawned 8 Pallets - on the whole map
Comments
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Maybe try taking a Killer's advice for a change than to just immediately dismiss it because you made some bad experiences with it at first.
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Yeah, there was also one match for me on Coal tower where there were no long L walls generated and only the small L and T wall loop, which reduced the amount of pallets a lot.This and the killer was rank 3 with a decent experience in running loops, so what this game wants survivors to rely on jukes on 1000hrs killers or something?Sme as when a rank 16 killer gets screwed over by double pallets.
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So you tried and failed, fair enough, but what keeps you from trying again? You'll never improve if you just give up. Jukes are essential for situations in which you have few remaining pallets or are caught out in the open, which can happen in every trial you encounter, especially towards endgame situations.
Do you just give up if you have no pallets left in your area?
And sorry, but even the best Killers can be juked by skilled Survivors. Saying otherwise is simply an easy excuse to not wanting to spend time to improve a skill that is difficult and tedious to obtain and master.
Those resources you speak of are not just pallets and windows, line of sight blockers also account for them, otherwise we could just as well just have Maps filled with dozens pallets and windows and otherwise nothing else.
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Because Lithe works on every map, lol. There aren't windows everywhere. Try that on the Game map, with only 3 windows, or even the new map Hawkins, I've seen maybe one or two in that one. Lithe isn't as useful as BL. The only way it would ever become as useful is if it increased vault speed on top of it's current effects, because BL prevents the stagger from falls as well. Lithe would still suffer on a few maps, but at least pallet vaulting would be somewhat useful. I used to use Lithe religiously, and while the build you're talking about is good, it's extremely situational. You need LOS blockers, as well as windows. Most windows that you can fast vault without taking a hit have nothing on the other side of them but open space. Basically you need specific maps with specific setups to make it work. Oh and by the way these new pallet changes that are coming, hurt Lithe as well, because they're trap pallets. Vaulting them guarantees a hit from the killer. So they're nerfing Lithe with them, which is already extremely situational.
Besides, it's like someone else said, it isn't like killers don't have a million aura reading perks(let's not forget addons) that are useful, as well as Whispers. The only way stealth could LEGITIMATELY work would be to remove aura reading from killers, but they're not gonna do that.
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Insulting? Sure bud, when this excuse makes you sleep better tonight lol
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What exactly do you think you'll accomplish by grossly exaggerating stuff and/or even making up some? Simple fact-checking shows that most of what you just said isn't true:
Lithe DOES work on every Map as every Map DOES have Windows.
Hawkins has many vaults spots that technically count as Windows.
There are no new Pallet changes coming and the only Killer to have Trap Pallets is Freddy. Even in that case, you can counteract that by running Small Game, which will tell you which Pallet is a Trap and which isn't.
Vaulting a Pallet never guarantees a hit.
Lithe has no incoming nerfs to itself.
Killers do not have a million Aura-reading Perks and even if, they can still only run 4 at the most and no combination gives them constant Aura-reading on the Survivors. There are also numerous ways you can use Killer Aura-reading to your advantage, by leading them on a false trail, in addition to completely blocking the Aura-reading by simply entering a Locker or getting outside of the Terror Radius.
Whispers only tells the Killer that somewhere within a large circle around them, there is a Survivor. That's literally it. It gives no direction or anything.
There are numerous successful stealth Survivor players out there and even several ones that run Object of Obsession. If the Killer's ability to see your Aura were as dangerous as you try to make it out to be, neither successful stealth nor OoO Survivors should exist, yet they do. I'm sorry, but Aura-reading is nowhere near as much as a threat as you claim.
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There was zero need to call me a "big boi", so yes, as far as I'm concerned, its only purpose was to insult me, which is not necessary.
You don't win arguments by insulting the other party.
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Although I do agree that some maps are completely garbage, it still doesn't deny the fact that juking out the killer is possible but no one cares to try and learn it. A lot of people just run straight to pallets and instantly go into the looping mindset. That explains why when some (not all) survivors go against some killers that requires you to think more about looping, they just DC or outright call them OP. Why? Because they got so used to looping that any change feels weird to them and they will most likely die due to not learning anything else but looping.
Again I'm not the best survivor in the world but I do go out of my way to learn new things. Both sides have good and bad maps that will benefit them more than the other side but that's just the game and not a survivor only issue.
@DocOctober summed up what my response was going to be pretty well so I wont really continue and repeat what he said.
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If that’s true, horrible phrasing my dude.
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No, sarcasm just generally sucks in text.
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I didn't play against you someone else did while streaming and you were a brown rank and they clapped you while you were Jeff , if you can't "juke" a brown rank killer what do you think will happen against a red rank? Look it's not even me trying to insult you but when I see you talking about knowing how to juke red ranks at the current state of the game and not the broken state when the depip squad did their test , not saying you've never been a red rank but I feel like it should be documented that you don't actually play to red ranks as a survivor while you're stating your opinion which we are all free to do
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You are still making assumptions from a single game I supposedly played, which was supposedly my account (I'm sorry, but without a Steam Link, there is no proof that that was me and not someone else, anyone can name their account to their desire, and I've seen others using my username before since Steam doesn't make them exclusive). You completely ignore any context to that game and make wild assumptions instead, such as that I never play in red ranks. You can't just claim that from a single low rank game. Did you see me in any subsequent games? No. Do you know that I never ranked further up? No, you don't know any of that. The only reason for you to know that would be if I were a streamer myself and you'd have watched it, which is not the case.
You have no knowledge of my games and my skill, so stop making dubious claims about them.
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It's not about the map being "garbage", but more about Lithe itself does not work without windows or pallets. Most pallets are far from each other and generally vaulting them on the Game map for example will get you hit. There are only 3 windows and they're all in the same exact room, so good luck there. Lithe is generally a hindrance on a lot of maps, so that build you suggested to lose the killer will not work on several instances.
As for your other thing, killers DC at loops occasionally too when it requires more than just "walk in a straight line and walk around where they threw the pallet and smack them because that pallet is a trap". And when their ruin is broken in 30 seconds, etc.
As for the response by @DocOctober , I don't generally listen to him for obvious reasons you could gather from this thread if you paid attention but I'll respond to his claims.
Lithe DOES "work" on every map, but it doesn't WORK on every map, or even a lot of them. Almost any vault on Hawkins forces you to fall to the ground, thus unless you also have Balanced Landing, you're slowing yourself down tremendously. The Game Map's "windows" are pointless as they are all facing walls and force you to go in a straight line after vaulting, and as I said, many windows if you are in a jungle gym out into the open with no LOS breakers.
I'm not talking about fake pallets, I'm talking about pallets that are 100% TRAPS if you use them. If you drop the pallet, the killer needs to only walk around and smack you. They are THAT bad. The newer maps have many of these. with these pallets, vaulting it will 100% guarantee a hit as well.
As for "no new pallet changes coming", they have made pallets much weaker on every new map they've made, and are continuing in this trend, and even going back to reworking older maps with this trend in mind. Those are pallet changes, and are nerfs to both looping and Lithe.
No, they don't have a million, but they have one for every situation just about. Aura reading gives them an area to search, and the whole "go one way, then go the other" doesn't really work when the killer can just go around to the direction you are heading and walk toward the way you would have gone. If the killer does that, he minimized the distance you created, and you can hear survivor footsteps quite well. Also you're claiming Whispers is WEAK when there are several killers that say that once you get used to using it, you can triangulate EXACTLY where a survivor is?
As for your example of OoO survivors, I'm sure they get found at some point and have to loop. There's never a survivor who cannot be found, and sure, I'll admit that some survivors may have gotten really good at using OoO, but I also guarantee that they can't hide from a killer the entire match and never be found.
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How can you guarantee that?
I've done it, others have done it too. It's not magic or impossible.
And Killers still only have 4 Perk slots, covering 4 situations at most.
As for the rest, you really need to specify better what exactly you mean when you speak of things. Dream Pallets are literally called Dream Traps, so of course I'll take that conclusion.
Then again, I'm wondering why I even bother with you if you openly admit that you don't listen to what I have to say anyways.
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if only there was a way to project sarcasm
/s
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How can I guarantee what? That falling to the ground slows you down despite vaulting with Lithe? Um, there's this thing, you see you stagger when you fall from heights, slowing you down, unless you have balanced landing. That stagger will slow you down quite a bit, and it can happen despite how fast you're moving.
You saying you have done it does not prove anything, as you have shown no proof of your claims, and one situation out of 100 is not evidence. Any good killer will work their hardest to not lose track of you. Sure, there are rare instances where they might lose track of you, or just decide to leave you, but that doesn't mean anything when 95% of the time you will not lose a killer who is on your ass, unless it's Spirit, because she can't see you while she's phasing. Now if you lose a Spirit with Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, or whatever, I wouldn't disagree or anything, as it's entirely possible to lose her, because again, she does not have sight of you. She's basically blind. Nurse can also be lost slightly because of her stun, assuming she doesn't keep her eyes on you. But again, that's one killer, potentially two if it's not a good Nurse.
Yes, killers do have 4 perk slots, and they only need one or two perks to find a survivor. Just like a survivor would only need one or two if the killer didn't have a terror radius. Again, I've seen multiple killers say they can triangulate exactly where a survivor was just with Whispers. There's also Discordance, Surveillance, Thrilling Tremors, and more, and those aren't even survivor aura reading. Those just tell you if a gen is being worked on, which is just as good. Also tell me how these OoO stealth users are able to stealth against Freddy, GhostFace, or Pig, because I'd love to see how they hide from a 0 TR killer who can see their exact location pretty much whenever they want.
Dream Pallets are NOT called Dream Traps. They are called Dream Pallets. Dream Traps are not even a thing, because the puddles are called Dream Snares, but everyone just calls them puddles. Curious where you got the info of them being called Dream Traps, because the addons specifically say "Replace Dream Snares with Dream Pallets". So you coming up with that conclusion when I said that the changes that are happening to pallets were traps is not on me, because I basically explained what I was talking about in the same sentence, and you can't vault a dream pallet.
I wonder that as well honestly.
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Your guarantee still isn't one. The stagger doesn't guarantee a hit if the distance the Killer has to the Survivor is just a little bit too great to catch up before the remainder of the sprint burst triggers. And we all know how close the next windows/pallets are located, it can be quite enough to reach the next one.
It is not a guaranteed hit, period. There are scenarios that will allow the Survivor to reach the next obstacle in time.
Have you shown proof of your claims, like those percentages? No, you haven't. That argument is mute. The same goes for which Killers you supposedly cannot ever lose, that's just not true, otherwise people wouldn't be able to do it consistently. Again, at this point, it's a matter of a skill, that you obviously don't have.
Triangulation with Whispers is only possible if the Survivor remains stationary, at which point AFK Crows will kick in sooner or later anyways. Keep moving around, even if it's just crouching around obstacles and structures, and the Killer can't get an accurate triangulation.
Then you continue listing more Perks than can even be equipped, yet say the Killer only needs 1. I'm sorry, but if you believe that 1 Perk is sufficient, then you can't use the argument that Killers have "Millions of Aura-reading Perks", of which they could equip 4 to cover various situations, to prove anything and vice versa.
Dream Traps is an umbrella term used by Freddy's Add-on descriptions to refer to Dream Snares and Dream Pallets together, if something affects either ability, since he can only use one at a time. Since there is no such thing as "trap pallet" I substituted the closest established terminology.
As for how OoO Survivors survive against those Killers? Well, your flippant remark leads me to believe that if you had OoO, you'd be one of those careless OoO users that continue to turn their camera as if they didn't have the Perk equipped, then of course you get spotted easily by those Killers, and rightfully so.
Successful OoO Survivors are very careful with their camera movement outside of a chase, slow but deliberate, only glancing at the Killer from time to time and making sure their own Aura is hidden by a Generator for example. Again, it is a skill one needs time and practice to develop.
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And I pointed out why I didn't think it necessary to use the /s.
Thanks for having been such an attentive reader of this thread /s.
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Have you even played the Hawkins map? Sometimes the hallways are empty for an extremely long distance between pallets, and the pallets it does have pretty much force you into a corner, and when you fall you are halted for about 1.5 seconds. Lithe gives you 3 seconds of speed. I think it's safe to say a killer who walks around the thing you're vaulting(talking about the stairs as those are pretty much the only vault with even any worth that I could find for Lithe as the others lead to areas you'd need BL to escape). Again, that next pallet will do no good on the Hawkins map.
My percentages come from my experience as a survivor. I could lose low rank killers easily. Now they aren't stupid, so I don't get to do that anymore. That said you're right, my percentages are just as useless as your saying you have done it before, so now that that's out of the way you can't use that as an excuse for proof anymore.
What's not a guaranteed hit? The pallets on Hawkins? Some of them absolutely are. The killer doesn't even need to be smart about it. As long as they don't get hit by the pallet, and then break it, they will get the hit. The obstacles between them are so small there may as well just be a pallet standing in thin air.
Survivor moves, killer still can triangulate the distance. Just go outside of Whispers range, go back in until you find them. You can't move far without revealing scratch marks.
I'm saying there's a perk for pretty much every situation, not that they can or even NEED to be used all together.
Except there ARE pallets that are traps, and again, I described exactly what I was talking about.
Except you may not know where Freddy or any 0 TR killer is, you look in their direction without knowing and your "stealth" just broke. I don't use OoO though. I find it to be a perk without a decent use, especially with new status effects.
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I literally mapped the Underground Complex for the Wiki and thus know its every nook and cranny. Therefore I also know that literally running parallel to those "empty" corridors, you have rooms full of Pallets, catwalks, vaults and what not. There are plenty of resources right "around the corner" so to speak and it's nobody's fault but yours if you don't use them, just because you apparently prefer to run in the corridors.
Your next arguments focus way too much on the new Map. The original discussion was opened about Torment Creek. If you want to discuss The Underground Complex, make that into its own discussion. Your points are irrelevant to this thread here.
That's again your personal experience and I attribute it again to you not being a good stealth Survivor.
"I'm saying there's a perk for pretty much every situation, not that they can or even NEED to be used all together." But you keep bringing it up as a point in your argument, that's the problem I have with it.
"Except there ARE pallets that are traps, and again, I described exactly what I was talking about." Those are called unsafe Pallets, nothing else. And they are only dangerous if you use them in the same way you would use a safe one. If you get caught at those, you either lost the mindgame or paid the price for not adapting your actions to it being an unsafe Pallet.
"Except you may not know where Freddy or any 0 TR killer is, you look in their direction without knowing and your "stealth" just broke. I don't use OoO though. I find it to be a perk without a decent use, especially with new status effects."
You literally tell me that you don't use OoO, so I suggest you refrain from making any further claims about a Perk you basically admit to not knowing how to use properly.
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Lets try to sum up the feedback so far:
Stealth gameplay should've been utilized
- I agree. I prefer Stealth gameplay whenever possible, i've recently reestablished Iron WIll as a major staple in my builds. However, there are about literally a dozen perks available to killers that completely nullify any attempt at stealth gameplay, i should know, i use them all the time because i'm awful at detection. And i still manage to consistently kill 3-4 survivors just because Barbecue, Nurses and Bloodhound save my arse
- Stealth gameplay is sort of hard to employ if the killer is a pig that just goes into crouch mode to deny borrowed time and doesnt break line of sight to the hook even once. I got tunneled off the hook twice in a row, and i was not packing DS. At that point, pallet play is all that you have, with an M1 killer walking at you. Stealth simply isn't an option if you're never left alone. Not to mention she had Surveillance so i would've been detected every time i'd go back on a gen even if i had escaped her.
Jukes and Hitboxes
- I think we can all agree that the dedicated servers and the live peer2peer session are in one of the roughest spots hitboxes have ever been in three years of Dead by Daylight. And by that i mean they are SO far off you might as well be flipping a coin every time you attempt something like it. That from me, fresh out of a game where a Spirit repeatedly hit me while i was BEHIND her, because the out-of-phasing lunge is "slightly enlarged" by whatever vi4gra lets her leave this plane of existence in the first place
"Map(s( is/are X sided. deal with it"
- You realize you're stating an issue out loud, yea?
What could i have done to remedy the situation? Well, step 1, brought DS, step 2, play survivor exclusively in 4 man squads with communication, bringing Adrenaline and Instaheals. Which i find absurd, crutchy, and boring.
I think we need some bigger fixes and map revisions and if you ask me, i think NOONE is gonna cry if Coldwind Farm is the next map-set to receive the Springwood Treatment.
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