THE LEGION!
Can we have the old Legion back please?? you make Legion from one of the best killers to the worst..
#GetBackTheOldLegion
Comments
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How about we don't bring back a killer that made players literally want to quit the game because of how unfun he was.
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All killers are unfun to play aginest if they are pro players and why not nerf nurse or spirit .. Legion needs a buff
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Most other killers have counterplay that Legion didn't have. You knew, that no matter what you did, you would always get downed. That is why it was unfun.
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He wasn't the best, they got a lot of kills because people wanted to literally die when playing against them. They need a buff, but not that kind of buff like you said.
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Problem with old Legion was that they would cought you no matter how good or bad are you. Their old power was just tunneling master machine.
Current Legion is not good, but it's way more healthy version than old Legion. So better keep this one and make him better than just putting old kit that was broken.
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Except that you dont need to be good for Legion. He also was not good at all, he was able to win a chase basically 100%, while wasting time on it and having 0 Map pressure. Not really fun.
Buffs, yes. Old Legion - no.
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Listen, I enjoy Legion and think they badly need a buff, but old Legion isn’t what we need, what we need is a solid rework that has time and effort put into it that helps the Legion into being a better and healthier Killer for both sides to enjoy. Current Legion is...Meh, but they’re not horrid. They need a buff, yes, yes everyone knows, but we don’t need old Legion.
This is coming from someone who took time and dedication to get to rank one Legion alone and has main Legion since day one of their release, so take that as you will.
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I'm all about buffing Legion but old Legion was horrible for the game. You think dcing is bad now? Almost every game someone would dc against old Legion. Wasn't fun for anyone with all the dcs. Non-toxic legions and survivors alike. Toxic ones probably enjoyed it. Examples being videos that start with "This build will make everyone dc" and procede to exploit and use Frank's mux tape with stab wound study.
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I'm about buffing Legion, but I'm actually more about reworking them. There's a reason people still give this killer flack. It's just cause Feral Frenzy much like the Doctor's Shock Therapy and it's effects? Are just not a fun way to stall the game.
And ultimately it's still pretty easy to get a free first hit on a survivor with it. Which is fine. Because Wraith gets this a lot too, but it's significantly less annoying because there's not two layers of stalling to mend then heal back up.
I'd just rework them to give a completely new power that was strong, but also fun for survivors to go against. And counterable.
That should be the requirements of all killers IMO. Strong, fun to play, but fun for survivors to go against, and they should be counterable.
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No.
Old Legion was a mistake that should never be repeated.
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The Legion had counterplay, but I am so tired of telling that over and over again survivors who have in writing nerf-threads a 10, while doing counterplay a -10.
As you survivors like to say "git gud" and watch some tutorial videos on YouTube.
And if you need additional evidence - the Legion had one of the worst kill-rates to pre patch times. That is not my opinion, that is fact, made on a official statistic posted by bhvr.
A killer without counterplay would have not a bad killrate. That should everybody with common sense understand.
What the topic matters. Yes I wish me also the old Legion back. Sort of.
I would prefer a old Legion without exploits and without op addons, but I am already so desperate after all the months were bhvr just has shown inactivity towards their Legion community, that I would even take that Legion back.
Somewhere they have for sure flying a backup around, at least I hope so.
Then I can at least have fun again if I play the Legion without addons and that implies also that I would play dbd again.
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Once The Legion activated their power you could not avoid them. Fact.
The killer did not have counterplay.
Even if Legion had a low kill % it doesn't mean he had counterplay. He was just a bad killer.
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Ok, let me take you serious for a moment...
"Once The Legion activated their power you could not avoid them."
Ok, ok... Why then could survivors avoid being caught and why they could leave the hook area uncaught?
I mean that must have happen, otherwise they would die on a hook and some after a chase thx to the moris.
Actual there was a counterplay. Every Legion who had play in high ranks could tell you that.
In low ranks I have not so often see it and it was maybe too much for a rank20, but in higher ranks you have definitely see it (if not, you can call yourself lucky, even if I would have a hard time to believe it).
Don't get me wrong. I don't blame you, that you haven't done it. You know... As example I was very bad with the Clown and Hillbilly.
But here is the difference - I don't blame the Clown or Hillbilly for it. I know that I was bad with them, because I was too bad, to have success with them (killers like Legion, Meyers, Nurse, Trapper were more my successful killers).
Edit: TL:DR We all have our weaknesses. Either because we are really to bad for something, or because we give already up, right at the start with sentences like "there is no counterplay".
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So what is the counterplay then? If a legion keeps using their power and hitting you until your deep wounds timer runs out, how do you consistently avoid it?
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I have write it down here in the forums alone... a feelend dozend times. If not more.
And I am honestly tired from it. If you really like to know how the counterplay was for a dead killer (thats how I call the Legion now), you can search on YouTube for tutorial videos.
On one good tutorial video I can remember from a guy named "Montos, Monos" or something like that.
He had show the counterplay on 3 Legions and 2 of them have also make some mistakes, but that is not bad for people that like to learn something.
Imo, you can best learn from videos like the one I mentioned as from videos where every survivor and killer plays just perfect in time. Because then they are to fast, as that you could realize what they do.
Edit: So just search there with something like "how to counterplay the Legion".
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Old Feral Frenzy had no counterplay. You were going to get hit. Then you'd probably get tunneled down with a multi hit ability because they had a way to down you with the ability, which in itself was not only annoying, but not even good killer design, because you were taking 3 or so hits to do something you could do in two or even one on a lot of killers.
And sometimes if you were really ''lucky" you'd get the moonwalking ######### who'd just walk backwards from you to make it so you weren't in a chase and get downed anyways.
It was bad design through and through for everyone involved.
New Feral Frenzy is still annoying, but there's many ways (too many maybe?) to break a Legion out of it.
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You can tell that lie a thousand times.
But as long Legion mains and survivors exist who remember the counterplay, as long as YouTube videos are up that show the counterplay and as long as the Legion holds one of the worst killrates (if I remember correctly only the Clown was worse), you and everybody who tells those lies is proven wrong.
Thats where personal faith hits the reality.
Edit: And as a pre patch Legion main I honestly don't know how you were able to put 3+ knife hits on a single survivor in just one frenzy? (if your target was not totally potato - or afk)
Sure that we here still speak about the Legion and not the Legion with something like Franks Mixtape attached?
Edit²: I say that, because then I could understand it, but then we would also speak about totally different Legion.
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he was never one of the best he was already one of the worst
they just kept him bad
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Or instead, you could just tell me how I can counter Legion's power?
Can't do that? That's because Legion had no counterplay.
Like I said before counterplay does not equal to low kill %.
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never
bring
that
back.
legion was the most unfun killer, there was no counterplay, tons of exploids, no fun to go up against - they had the highest DC rate in the entire game (for a good reason) and are in a MUCH better place than before.
yes, they need buffs, but NO, they DO NOT need to get the changes reverted.
for the sake of this games health, leave legion as is for now. we can talk about full on reworks, but old legion is a no go.
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Well Legion was not one of the best Killers but one of the most fun, but I agree, I would really like to see the old Legion back :C
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You can either:
-Search on YouTube and find it in an better english explained as mine and additional with pictures to it.
-Search in my comment history if you like to get the same, just then with a english like mine explained.
And sorry no. I don't waste time on people, that not really like to get help.
I have help survivors somtimes in the endgame chat in dbd, because there I had made jokes with them together and know that they were really interested in getting better.
My experience with this forums are that the opposite side of your argument is not interested in getting better.
This side is mostly interested in crying. Over and over again and if they have a bad experience, it is because "the others". Never themselfs.
I am sorry for the case that I put you in the wrong drawer, but I am just done with it, after staying months in those forums and reading the same crap over and over again, while survivors in the game just have done it.
And thats also why I see survivors in this forums and in the game differently.
The one crying and saying "that is not possible!!!!1111" and the others just do it.
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We need a buffs not a nerfs :)
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The forums never stopped whining till the devs finally caved and nerfed him into the ground.
Honestly, I miss how unique he was, and that's what made him fun in the first place. I tried to be as fair as possible in each match with him despite knowing how unfun he was to face, but it didn't help that other Legions were also abusing his bugs, making mend/healing times incredible long, using RUIN WITH HIM WHICH MADE IT WORSE!, etc.
Nothing could've really been done for him besides that nerf tbh, so I can see where the devs were going with him. But overall, if that was the case... why make him in the first place if THAT was their best option?
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Just remove Legion from the game and deny any questions, that he/she was ever in game. Problem solved.
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the only "counter play" legion had was "dont heal and rush the gens so we can get out of here asap", since you had literally no chance once the killer spotted you or someone else around your location.
old legion was a terribly designed killer, you couldnt avoid them and you couldnt beat them in a chase, all you could do was rush your objective and escape asap, since it took them so long to catch a survivor - and i wouldnt really consider that to be "counter play", since you couldnt do anything against the killer themselve.
thats also why they are considered to have no counterplay (cause there is none), but had such a small kill ratio (cause they were so slow at catching survivors and no one wanted to stick around in your game, so they eigther DCed or rushed gens and left immediately).
fact is: if you could not catch someone with old legion, you wouldnt have been able to catch them with anyone else. if you struggled in chases with legion, you really need to improve at this game and git gud.
and this comes from a killer main btw.
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While reading these following statements, ignore Frank's mixtape and exploits, which must've been what devs needed to change and deal with.
Legion was the second killer from the bottom in the kill rate statistic, that means something. It means that if he wanted to down you, he would but took a lot of time, which means big chase, which also means that the survivor could do something against it.
I said " if he wanted to down you he would, but took a lot of time" and you can say "Thats what made him unfun". My counter argument to that is: that happens with every single killer, having bloodlust, entity blockers and 1 chase perk you can pretty much down someone if you like, but again, you lose a lot of time.
The thing is that people didn't know how to counter Legion, he had a different way to be dealt with, pretty much like the nurse, he had a completely different chase style.
I'll give you some counters to OLD Legion:
- Use a flashlight if you want (optional)
- NEVER EVER camp at pallets waiting for Legion to break it, remember that he is recovering and waiting to vault and hit you. If that bad boy doesn't break the pallet and is waiting for the power to come back, run to another and try to hit him.
- If you don't hit Legion with a pallet or you vault a window and see him vaulting too, vault back, Legions usually miss that hit because when they vault they get pushed forward. Same for windows.
Remember that Legion doesn't see scratch marks so you can play with your blood to make him track in the wrong direction. Ex: Killer shack. Situation: God pallet dropped, Legion is waiting for the power to recover in the inside and you are outside.
If you know how to counterplay them, you would get away from the pallet. You see him vaulting away and you have that distance that you gained from running away a lil bit. Run to the back of the shack and hide in the right corner (on the left there are lockers and the window). Legion can't see scratch marks so you can run away on that brief second that he is searching where you went to get away and his power is almost running out in that moment.
There are many more ways.
Of course all of this needs skill to perform.
Watch this video for further understanding.
Now, I just think that he needed buffs on spreading hits, the power gauge shouldn't stop when vaulting and Feral Frenzy should have a balanced mechanic around exposed and injured survivors. It's another way to counterplay him. OR bhvr can bring him more counterplay through the miss hits mechanic.
Post edited by NullSp3c on3 -
No I like new legion actually
Old legion was a cheese killer
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Yeah and I am a survivor main btw. :).
Sorry... I needed to say that. It is just a not necessary comment imo and just for being clear, I was not a survivor main.
Should you ever think that you are maybe were wrong, you can maybe start listen to the people who have know it, aka. the Legion mains and/or search on YouTube.
Must be for you a special moment if you see there finaly survivors in a chase that were able to avoid being hitten more as a maximum of 1 time (op addons not counted in).
Btw. many survs rush the gens. Not important which killer they face, if I can believe those forums. I mean there are a ton of "gen rush" threads out there. That has gone a bit down because of the dlc release I think, but I am sure they will rise again^^.
Btw., imo the Legion was a very good killerdesign. It was a design that has talk to a totally new type of player. Not every dbd killer can say that about him self and something like that is always good, because it brings new players in the game.
What the nerf cryers matters - they stay anyways in the game. If you don't believe, just read the nerf threads of other killers. They have after the Legion just shift over to the next "nerf killer x" threads and so it will go on and on. They will never be able to do more, as to complain in the forums, but they will stay in the game.
Besides, some of them were pretty toxic. They were even ok with dcs and have sometimes encourage other players to do it. If you ask me, they should have been banned, exactly like the exploiting Legions, because dcing is also a reason to leave a game for other people, exactly like exploiting.
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"you make Legion from one of the best killers to the worst.."
delusional.
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Your good will to give them tips is admirable NullSp3c.
But I am afraid, it is a waste of time. They will for sure come with excuses for them self, like "that were only possible towards bad Legions, that was impossible!" and so on.
I know those type of players.
They will never learn and stay by their opinion, no matter what.
They could have been witnesses of a counterplay situation in dbd and would still either denie it, or blame it on the killer. Just so that they can tell themself longer, that it is not their fault and that they can stay still in their comfort zone -_-.
Anyways, time to watch your linked video^^.
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i really don't care about old legion, i just want them to remove this "lost power when miss a attack" thing
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Yes, you are right Mookywolf.
Thank you for searching, even I am not sure if the guys here are really interested in it.
They seem to me more the sort of people that like to stay in their comfort zone and search the faults always by others.
What the second video matters - I have not watch it yet, but if the whole Legion situation has something good, then that the exploiters got banned.
That is my opinion to that. I will watch the video later.
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I just gave them now because, unlike you, I didn't give anyone in the forum tips to counter the old legion (I think) because i don't think that they are gonna listen. Either way, just did it this time because I saw that guy saying that he had no counterplay just because you didn't say his counters again.
PS; The video is pretty dope tho, the background music went right to my playlist when I first saw the video.
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..
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Legion has always been problematic. They were never good - Legion just had exploits and extremely unfun mechanics. Say what you will about Doctor, but he has counterplay and he can’t hurt anyone in therapy and he’s actually quite fun to play and verse.
Old Legion either felt like overextending chases and giving survivors free sprint burst or Legion would use unfair mechanics to ensure an inescapable down. Not fun for either side.
Now, Legion is in a place that CAN be buffed because as toothless as they are right now, they’re in a much healthier state.
I personally would advocate for a rework that utilizes their lore as a delinquent murder squad.
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I have talk to both of you about your videos in multiple postings, but I have also always quoted you guys then :).
sighs Sorry, my english is just sometimes not what I would call good :|.
Btw. should you also speak german, I bet the Band "Eisregen" would also be something for you. Their songs "Scharlachrotes Kleid" and "Zeit zu spielen", can also remember you a bit on the Legion.
Even, imo, the Legion song for me is "Sepultura - Bloody Roots".
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I'm not German, I'm from Portugal so I only know english and portuguese so I don't know those bands.
"I have talk to both of you about your videos in multiple postings, but I have also always quoted you guys then :)."
I don't understand clearly what you said, so my reading is "I already talked about both videos in other discussions and mentioned you in them"
Sorry if this is rude btw.
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No it isn't. To read and understand my english is for sure sometimes the purest torture :).
I just mean, I have write 1 posting towards you in that I have also quoted you and I have write 1 posting towards Mookywolf in that I have also quoted him/her.
What your video matters so, I have say that I will watch it and I don't think that I have anything say about, besides the music. What the content matters, so it was a good and short video.
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he represents the communities opinion on old legion pretty well.
id recommend you watching this.
also, you love to mention this "counterplay" he had that no one here understands, yet you never decide to actually tell us what this "counterplay" is in the first place.
due to that i'll just have to assume you dont know any counterplay yourself, but pretend that "skilled players know the counterplay" to be able to just tell everyone here who says they in fact had no counterplay they just need to get better at the game and the killer was balanced.
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Oh ok. Now I understand it ahaha
The video is really well explained and done, yeah.
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I'm not gonna write everything again, so please check my 1st comment on this discussion. It has a video in it so is easy to distinguish, and what I say there is what I have to say to you.
Chases with legion are somewhat challenging and very interactive for both sides.
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"Chases with legion are somewhat challenging and very interactive for both sides."
yeah, i too would recommend you to watch the video i posted.
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I gave you the advice to either search in my comment history for it, or to search on YouTube.
I know my english is bad, but it is not that bad.
You don't like to do it. What does that say about you? You don't like to spend any effort into it and you have already made your opinion.
So... why exactly I should now write a tutorial for you (something that would cost me 15-20 minutes)?
So, that you can say me at the end, that this was only possible against bad Legions, or that the things I write were impossible?
Sorry, but I know already the most sorts of player types. This is not the first year of me in the internet, or in a game in the internet.
You have your opinion and you will stay by it.
You have for sure also not watch the videos, linked by Null3pec and Mookywolf and if you have, you have for sure already some sentence ready, that keeps you in your comfort zone.
And what your video matters, so I have not the same opinion like that guy. Maybe because I have made other experiences.
I have a friend that was a survivor main and I have very often read my endgame chat and after my experience:
-there are people also in the game who like the stealth part.
-that have enjoy the chases against the Legion
And I have read that countless times, because I could read my endgame chat most of the time.
The most time, he was either silent, friendly or happy. Only a handful of times I had a toxic endgame chat.
So... I could really read what the people think, that have play against me as a Legion main and they were either happy, or friendly.
Imo, he takes himself to important, if he thinks that he speaks for the community and I don't mean that on a bad way, but he has for sure not talk for the people in my endgame chat as example and I was only 1 Legion main.
There were more as me out there in the times back then, even if the Legion population is maybe pretty low now - I don't know.
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I saw that video a long time ago like 3 times. To clearly undesrtand what he said. Now just don't ignore the comment on the post.
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The video that says "chases are the only fun part of the game"?
Because that premise is wrong, any conclusion drawn from it is incorrect, making anything past that point irrelevant.
But ignoring that, he them says "legion chases you a lot, and that's not fun."
It honestly makes no sense to me. He contradicts himself, and concludes he's right?
Also, honestly reply to the videos people posted here, where the counterplay is shown to exist. Don't just pretend that what they said is unnimportant and must be ignored just because you posted a video too
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All counterplay against Legion relied solely on either specific items (flashlight, firecrackers) or the killer being bad. As long as the killer knew these tricks they wouldn't be a problem for them anymore.
Yes, it took time to down someone using FF but it was unfun because you knew you had no choice in the matter. If The Legion was even a mediocre player, they could down you with FF. Your skill didn't matter, that's why it was unfun.
And that was every game. FF->hit->wait for cooldown->repeat (interactive gameplay amirite?).
Old Legion was like a bad version of Nurse. He ignored survivor defenses but he was really easy to play and really bad at killing, the complete opposite of Nurse.
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The counterplay didn't rely solely on especific items as I showed before, I don't even know why you said that.
Knowing the tricks is a reward of playing a killer frequently and not all players use the same. Second of all, it happens with all killers. If the killer knows the trick, they will play around it.
"And that was every game. FF->hit->wait for cooldown->repeat (interactive gameplay amirite?)."
With every other killer: Wait for bloodlust ->hit -> Wait for bloodlust-> repeat.
This cycle you mentioned can take the entire match if you don't ignore the counterplay.
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Sometimes it is really hard for me to read out of postings like yours (no offence), if you mean the Legion, or the Legion with op addons (that were 3 in my opinion, Franks Mixtape and the 2 addons that were also be used for 1 of the exploits - I guess you know which exploit I mean).
If you talk about the Legion with op addons, you are right that in a match could situations happen, were the survivor had no chance, no matter what he has tryd (still, that was a addon problem, not a Legion problem from my point of view - reminds me a bit on the nerf threads about Spirit this days in combination with her op addon - when I can believe the Spirit nerfthreads in this forum).
If you talk about the Legion without addons, or without at least the op addons, there was a good chance for the survivor to survive. You see this Legion in the video of Mookywolf.
And that was not always because the Legion was bad - even then this explanation lets you stay in your comfort zone - it was because of the limitations the Legion basekit had.
Of Course, some Legions were bad players, but nobody can serious think that every Legion main was bad and if he does... Well... then he is definitely not the right person for such, or even any balance discussion.
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