What was life like before the Emblem System?
I've been playing DBD for a long time, but not that long. I'd like to hear about how things were before the current emblem pipping system was established.
Wasn't ranking done by survivors surviving and killers killing back then? Did this mean that high rank killers were really awesome sauce and high rank survivors were true gods among men?
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It was first based on your Bloodpoints, then Killers had to kill but Survivors kept BP ranking, then Emblems.
Details can be found here.
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Oh so in terms of ranking up it was even worse then than how it is today?
Because today it's relatively easy to get up to red ranks if you just keep playing and aren't a total disaster. You mean it was even easier before?
I thought with the requirement to kill killers would be weeded out on their actual killing skill.
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The saying "Getting to rank 1 doesn't mean anything" came from how incredibly easy it was to rank up with the BP system.
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Hah, I see!
But in the stage 2 system where killers had to kill, was there a marked difference in killer ranking quality?
Also, the way Killers had to Kill to rank while Survivors kept the BP system, it just shows you that the game is really not designed for survivors to survive.
Survivors are really meant to do stuff in game, and die. And if you happened to survive, well then that's just icing on the cake. Doesn't it?
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With the victory cube to pip a killer only needed 2 kills. 4 kills gained you a double pip and survivors still worked off BP.
The problem with this is it highly encouraged tunneling or camping (especially if one was already dead) since you were guaranteed a pip by getting someone out the game really early.
The original bloodpoints meant getting to rank 1 was really easy. Everyone could do it as the requirements were so low. As Boss said it's what coined the getting to rank 1 phrase.
The problem the game has is making an actual rank system based on skill. Too hard for one side means long queues for the other.
It's a hard one to balance as the devs want fair play and some skill needed to get to rank 1.
Personally I don't like the emblems as they promote fair but unfair play and make people less likely to play certain killers as they rank up. On paper it makes game more diverse but in practice it puts more pressure on some to use the best.
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I also started playing around that time. A month or so earlier I think. Roughly a year ago.
I hear a lot of stories of "how it used to be" and it always makes me curious, and I like to learn more of the history of this game and how the situation was. I hear so many horror stories from killers from those days, lol.
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Killers having to kill, the Victory Cube, heavily incetivized camping.
This is of course the opposite of what they want.
Survivors not surviving with rare exceptions would probably be the opposite of an incentive.
Y'know, why play when your chances are microscopic?
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You could actually pip if you 4K'D instead of having to play in a really unintuitive way. IMO, the second system was the best ranking system for killers, but it was incredibly easy to rank up as survivor.
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Then we got the Victory Cube where it was based on hooks. Each survivor was worth 4 points. 3 for each hook state and 1 for death.
0: Lose 2 pips
1-7: Lose 1 pip
8: Black pip
9-15: 1 pip
16: 2 pip
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Here comes the "back in my old days" posts
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Back in my day we had to chase survivors for 15 miles both directions. Through windows and pallet cities. You youngsters don't know how good you have it with your new-fangled Lusting Blood and BBQ and Pork.
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To be 100% Its like the 70s, they were the good old days
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I started playing after the Victory Cube was implemented. It was a simple but flawed system.
You would get points for each hook state the Survivor reached and when they died. Getting four sacrifices was a double pip. Crybaby Survivors couldn't DC or suicide to deny you hook points (which was my favorite thing about the Victory Cube). However, it encouraged camping a Survivor to death. Killers who only cared about pipping could make you have a really ######### experience. It also didn't count your gen pressure or anything else, meaning that if you did a good job at slowing the game down but couldn't get more than one kill, you had a chance to depip. If you got multiple hooks on the Survivors but only managed to kill one, you could also depip.
If you got gen rushed but capitalized on Survivor mistakes during the endgame or brought NOED 3 (back then NOED only had the instadown part at tier 3), you would double pip. You were getting the highest reward for doing poorly most of the game or bringing a perk.
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This is why killers who rank up complain survivors are too strong. It's still so much easier to rank up as a killer than it is survivors.
The good thing though is that once there you actually want to go back to green/purple so there's that.
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I think it's been a bit of a trade off and find it difficult to say which ranking system is the more difficult to climb. Pleasing the emblem system now can be really difficult with some killers but it could also be hell with a full teams running DS that they could use at any time and losing your downs to flashlights that were easier to use back then. I think I prefer the emblems though overall. They don't always reflect the work you put in but they do an alright job, encourage more skillful play from killers and make the game overall more enjoyable for survivors.
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Really easy rank one. Like... really easy.
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Seems to me that any system that heavily incentivizes camping is not a good system.
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In a certain way yes. With the BP-related rank you could have total potatoes at rank 1, with the Victory Cube rank 1 killers where the most tryhards and prone to dirty tactics to get kills. Being a rank 1 survivor (which was extremely easy) was overall a bad experience, so many deranked on purpose to stay in the green rank.
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Rank 1 was filled with rank 15s of today. You just needed 10k BP as surv in order to pip and 6k to safe pip. The killer population was lower since it was harder back then, the game was very unbalanced.
I remember getting lobbies as killer was instant until around march 2018. Queues as survivor could be pretty long, especially in swf.
Survivor playerbase was way more toxic, they were so used to escape that they were raging a lot when dying. Considering survivors one trick were the vast majority of the population killer mains had very bad reputation. Good old times, how much fun I got killing all those entitled bastards.
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I cringe every time people say Victory Cube encourages camping.
Victory Cube encourages what works and nothing else.
Camping has counterplay. Gen rush, you do it against Killers that aren't camping, so do it against the campers too.
A 1k is not enough to pip, so if you rush gens and leave that Killer won't be able to reach high ranks.
And if he's camping and getting a 4k, then that just means he:
A - Used the strategy in such a way that it was tactically sound and got a lot of use out of it (ex: got multiple Survivors hooked at once and juggled people around the hooks to get hook trades until everyone died). And thus should be ranked accordingly
or
B - Was playing against significantly weaker Survivors (ex: people that mindlessly swarm hooks). And again, should pip in order to que with stronger Survivors that won't make the same mistake.
And we know they won't make the same mistake, because Killers that pip from camping, are now playing Survivors that piped off of camping Killers, in otherwords they are the Survivors that DID survive the campers and thus must know how to counter them.
If the Killer fails to adapt and try things other than camping, then he's stuck at whatever rank he's at doing mediocre consistently (aka: facing survivors of identical skill and preforming accordingly) and if he succeeds at adapting then he will continue to pip.
In otherwords:
Situation A: Killer camps and succeeds - Pips until he is facing Survivors who he won't succeed at Killing via camping with.
Situation B: Killer camps and fails - Depips or stagnates until he takes the hint and switches strategies
Situation C: Killer does not camp and succeeds - Pips until he is facing Survivors that can counter whatever strategy they are now using
Situation D: Killer does not camp and fails - Depips or stagnates until he improves
All 4 of these situations are good in one way or another.
Killers that are being bullied eventually depip until they are facing Survivors who don't have enough skill to bully them.
Killers that try to cheese wins eventually pip and face Survivors that know how to deal with it.
Everyone wins.
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Currently a Killer that camps will depip always. Meaning even when successful they continue facing weaker Survivors.
Since the Survivors are now weaker he is now even MORE likely to succeed, and since he depips either way the camping Killers are being pushed towards the Survivors that are least likely to Survive against a camper and most likely to quit the game forever after facing one.
Meanwhile the genuinely skilled Killers have to deal with an inconsistent ranking system that ranks based off fair play rather than actual success causing them to face Survivors of inappropriate skill far too often.
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Personally before the emblem system I used to stall out around rank 8 because back then it was harder for me to pip
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The ACTUAL problem with this iteration was that it didn't go both ways. Killers that camped and succeeded would pip, but Survivors that failed to break the camp in one way or another ALSO pipped because BP was so easy to get.
This meant that the Killers would continue facing the Survivors that failed to overcome whatever strategy they used so why NOT keep doing it again?
If the Survivors used a similar system (pip for Surviving, depip for not Surviving) then the Survivors who failed to Survive against a camper would depip, and thus no longer be in the same rank as the Killer they faced, thus pushing them away from campers. Meanwhile the Survivors that successfully survive campers are pushed up, if there are still campers above them then they are pushed towards them (and since these are the Survivors that did the best against campers this is ok). And if there aren't then they will end up being matched with the Killers that found better strategies.
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This actually sums up the vicious cycle of rank in this game.
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Well I was between 8 ,9 but now I stay at 12 to 14 plus people dc every match when I'm on a 4k streak so it makes it quite difficult to rank up one pip at a time I'm not sure what's at rank one but I know they don't want me there
And I'm not trying to go to rank one until my favorite killer gets in the game
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There is no red ranks. That happens to everyone and everyone saying otherwise including those with video evidence are actually part of some grand conspiracy.
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I remember those old day's, but let's not remember those old days, ok?
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Initially it was just based on bloodpoints across the board. 7k = safety pip, 10k = pip, 20k = double pip. Anything below 7k was a depip.
Then killers got the victory cube (RIP cubes). Then their ranking was solely based on hook states/kills.
The former made it way too easy to pip. Pretty much everyone would get to rank 1 if they played enough. Even if you had a bad match, you would have been really hard pressed to get less than 7,000 points. With ranking separate from BP, you can also give people more points for things without worrying about it affecting ranking. The latter promoted camping and tunneling one person.
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Saying that victory cubes promotes camping implies that they are effective strategies.
Why should players who use good and successful strategies that their opponents are unable to figure out how to counter not rank?
Even moreso for people who successfully use bad strategies but succeed anyways, since it means the better Survivors who they'd be ranking towards need to be the Survivors they are facing in order to discourage whatever the strategy is.
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first, everyone would be rank 1.
then killers had it very hard to rank up, though survivors had it as easy as before.
and then the emblem system got intorduced - now very few people actually push to rank 1.
lets see what happens next ^^
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