The Killer Propaganda that Killers are Useless at Red Ranks
Can we please put this nonsense to rest? I don't know who started it, probably some hack Killer Main Streamer who is preaching his sheep followers the gospel, but I've been playing in Red Ranks a lot during this event and the past few weeks and all I can say is, I see far more survivors getting destroyed by any and all killers at the red ranks.
Sure, I may be solo queue, but I also got into a few SWF teams here and there judging by the names of the survivors (ran into a 3-Man group with names Microsoft Word, Microsoft Power Point and Microsoft Access once). They all still get destroyed by killers like Wraith, Trapper, and Plague.
Seriously, any killer is viable even in the red ranks. The number of times we escape all four of us is exceedingly rare, and most of the time only one escapes, or we end up in 4Ks. It's seriously not just The Big Three that can cut it in the Red Ranks.
I'm sure there are powerful SWF Commando Squads that can beat even good Nurses or Spirits, but those are very, very rare I am sure.
Comments
-
Sounds like the survivors you are getting grouped with are poor at looping and countering killers you go against. Wraith is not good, he is trash, and the fact your team got stomped by him is upsetting. He is a worse spirit and doesn't even have true invisibility, and his power is literally a downgraded version of Spirits. Trapper is high skill cap but even then he can still be hard countered without good add-ons or if the survivors have certain perks. (Object) Not to mention, you can still escape his traps effectively making them RNG based and unreliable, even more so because you still have to rely on survivors stepping into them in the first place. Plague is your basic M1 killer with the power to never let you heal and being able to easily see and find you. Just loop her, she is extremely tall and laughably easy to run around. Although her power makes her much better than Trapper or Wraith.
You are wrong about any killer being viable in red ranks. Even played to the best of their ability, at the end of the day having map pressure and a good power still dictates a good killer, and I often find myself getting a 3-4 man escape against Wraith, Trapper, etc at high ranks regardless of their skill level. And Plague is almost nonexistent, I never see her.
(''Propaganda'', lol what a joke. More like true facts.)
30 -
Every killer is viable at rank 1 but 90% aren't against a good rank 1 team communicating/calling out/sharing totem spots and so on.
So overall i disagree played to their maximum potential survivors are the power role.
26 -
No, killers are always victims in this game
Killer good survivor bad
9 -
It would be more accurate to say that Killers not close to the top of the food chain struggle against good teams.
4 -
Go work your way up to rank 1 with wraith only then, if it's that easy. Sure, solo survivors with one or two potatoes can be wrecked by every killer, but against teams, nurse and spirit, nurse and spirit.
0 -
Sorry, but if people agree on that, then that's their right. Has nothing to do with feeling like a victim and that crap. Except maybe a few special individuals that exagerrate.
But just looking at the possibilities of the powers of some killers, I personally think there are a fair amount of low tier killers that have no chance against an optimal team. Or maybe someone could explain to me how a killer like Clown is supposed to down survivors fast enough and be able to defend generators, especially on big maps, enough so they can have a a chance to win against survivor teams that are optimal.
Clown, Doctor, Leatherface, Legion, Trapper and Wraith are those killers I believe definitely need some buffs. Doctor is getting some changes luckily, so I'm happy about that. And I do feel like many people agree. I feel like Hillbilly and Freddy are more or less the sweet spot for balance. So Spirit and and Nurse could use some small nerfs, while weaker killers like Clown or Doctor need some help.
What rank do you play at with killer?
8 -
All Seeing with Windstorm is really powerful on Wraith and pack all the perks, that help you in a chase you can be a thread...but so are Iri-head Huntress...
1 -
They could remove wraiths collision while cloaked and he'd still be trash... him being able to not worry about going around buildings and cutting loops as short as possible and he'd still be hot garbage because his power still doesn't work as intended...... Clapper needs to be base.
1 -
Exactly and when you go against these teams as say a meme build and they go full try hard, it makes you wonder why would I play anyone else but spirit, nurse or any of the top 3 or 4 and then those teams wonder why theres so many....... here survivors dont say nerf the top, say buff for variety!
1 -
They're just bad. Most people will try to justify their failures and/or lack of understanding by blaming everything but themselves. Obviously, this is a very poor mentality for improvement which is why they all suck.
I have seen Wraiths at rank 1 wipe the floor with a team of red rank survivors. I've seen Doctors do the same thing. I've also seen Leatherfaces do the same thing. It's almost as if having a very solid base of fundamentals and mechanical skills will allow you to succeed on any killer at any rank.
Also, the complaints about instaheals are comical at this point. My last 30 games of survivor at rank 1, nobody had an instaheal or a key. Not a single person lol. And yes, we die all the ######### time because the killers are actually skilled.
People just expect 4ks to be handed to them on a silver platter because.... you know... "i'm the killer". I'm just slowly coming to the conclusion that this community is heavily killer biased. Have you guys never watched any Otzdarva videos or something? The dude regularly annihilates rank 1 SWFs with off-meta killers and builds. We're talking nearly optimal survivors being pummeled into the ground by killers and perks that are considered to be B tier at best. Meanwhile, there are dudes posting on this forum saying that toolboxes should be removed from the game and getting upvoted. O_O
7 -
I played 50 games at R1 solo last season and kept track of every stat.
I am a 5000 hour player since beta, and have primarily played survivor.
I have over 9400 escapes and 36000+ saves off the hook. I’ve played Survivor, a lot.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fmwuhlmag8s32myoqtKQvCxneF5WNWhRvE4bz6pWfRQ
I only escaped 22/50 games or 44%.
21/50 games were 4K’s or 41% of the time.
Killers in a better place than it ever has been. Players here are just bad, for the most part.
9 -
I feel people's personal goals and how competitive they are contributes to it. I am not trying to argue about what's an "objective" win for killers, I'm just saying that two different people might feel differently about the same match.
Yeah, to someone who wants to consistently achieve their goal and win they'll probably want to avoid feeling "helpless" on killers that can be heavily hampered by certain perks, items or if the survivors are experienced enough. To someone who's fine with inconsistency and having "those games" it might be different. I honestly feel the game's design tries its best to make consistency HARD to achieve, as while it's a competitive game by definition it's by no means a game with the top-oriented "esports friendly" style of balancing some games employ nowadays. One match can be perfectly average, then the next the "power" spikes immensely as it's an omegablink nurse vs a 4man swf with 4 syringes or whatever.
And that's another thing, the "high ranks" have a massive variance of skill on both sides. Someone who shrugs it off and moves on if the inconsistency makes them lose at times can still stay there.
But yeah, just gonna go ahead and say that anyone that says anything even close to "I ONLY get toxic ascended 4man SWFs!" are being decieved by negativity bias at best, and straight up spreading disinformation at worst.
1 -
Wraith only mediocre build is silent/undirectional bell + 6 seconds. Paired with Nurses+Sloppy you can catch some potatoes offguard, that refuse to heal in safe places. Windstorm + All seeing is even badder than base wraith, because you got a slowdown while uncloaking.
0 -
I think any killer can do well or at least put up a fight against average survivors. Against the teams made up of all above average survivors, probably not
1 -
I think when people say lower tier killers like wraith, trapper, legion, etc. arent viable in red ranks they mean they arent viable against very coordinated 4man SWF. Which theyre right in that regard, but those SWFs aren’t common at all.
3 -
Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Hag, Huntress Freddy are 100% fine and completely viable against even those SFW teams.
Ghostface, Plague, Myers and Clown aren't quite as good but I'd still expect you to get results, with Ghostface, Plague and Myers being borderline cases.
That just leaves Pig, Legion, Doctor, Trapper, Wraith and Leatherface. Meaning there are as many viable Killers as unviable Killers with a few killers in a gray area as well.
While not preferable it's not THAT bad either.
Demogorgon is unlisted for now but I'm estimating him being viable.
0 -
Imagine dying to Wraith in a SWF group.
5 -
Nah the build that lets him absolutely shred pallets and near instaneously kick gens and vault windows is strong as well. You save a massive amount of time and it always takes survivors by surprise. Wraith is underrated and deserves a spot in mid-tier.
1 -
Any killer is viable at rank 1 but, that's not because killer is in a good spot it's because rank 1 doesn't mean anything. Anyone can be rank 1 really its really just based off play time and not skill. Saying you can get a 4k at rank 1 with a week killer doesn't mean much. If you try to play a low teir killer against an actual good team you will be lucky to get one kill.
0 -
5000 hours and you're still bad damn :/ condolences my man
1 -
If you think so...
0 -
I was in red ranks and I watched everyone die to Trapper with Ruin, lol.
In Hawkins Laboratory.
0 -
The Red's at their ol'e propaganda schemes again. Must the U.S. play pawn into such "nerf NOED!" threads constantly? I for one say, "Nay!"
2 -
All I can say is that I'm useless at red ranks.
0 -
Yes, I do. That's why I said it.
1 -
Some killers should stop crying, they are not supposed to 4k everygame, play for fun ffs
1 -
That's the core problem. Most killers capitalize on survivor mistakes, not on good plays.
2 -
It'd be nice if they would consider some small adjustment to lower tier killers for buffs, really we aren't asking for much just a bit of consult.
I feel like we aren't going to get that though, and one by one we'll start chopping down the killers who feel good to play in red ranks until everyone feels bad to play.
but then the devs just redo maps with a ton of unsafe pallets for us to bloodlust and then everyone just feels ripped off and we all quit
Muwah chef's kiss just perfecto 😘 👌
0 -
LITERALLY makes a Holocaust comparison regarding player behavior in DBD.
"Propaganda"
"Grow up"
"Hack killer main streamer"
Your statement is incorrect and biased, your comparison to the Holocaust is distasteful and juvenile (grow up), but at least it serves as a reminder that rank means nothing in terms of game sense, skill and knowledge.
6 -
This post is really tone deaf and seems to just want to stir the pot.
1 -
Then why everyone is playing Nurse or Spirit? These killers have good map control and chase potential. You can't expect the same about Doctor, Clown, Wraith, Trapper and other M1 killers because they lacks mobility and power control. I agree when people said that the problem is how big the maps are but that's all about It. You can't blame other people saying they are bad. They trying their best.
2 -
Everyone has "fun" in different ways...
0 -
I think you're bad actually, even with 5k hours.
Killer is in a better spot, but still not the power role.
0 -
+1
Saved me the trouble of having to type it.
6 -
It comes down to semantics, really. Is Ghostface viable at rank 1? Absolutely. Is the game 10x harder than it would be on a better killer? Abso-freakin-lutely. If you consider micromanaging to the Nth degree a viable playstyle, then yes, you can consistently do well with Ghostface or even lower tier killers like Pig at red ranks. I think people are just oversimplifying the killer viability argument that others are making when we say we need stronger killers. It becomes a question of how much playstyle flexibility and difficulty fluxuation should we reasonably expect from the killer roster within the same rank. Your experience on the big 5 (Nurse, Billy, Spirit, Freddy, Huntress) doesn't change all that much from rank 12 to 1. Playing Ghostface at rank 1 means I rarely if ever stalk, to the point that my last three 4k games had no instadowns from stalking. Is it viable? Sure. Reasonable or intended by the devs? Doubt it.
0 -
EDIT: Had to repost because the spam filter hates me. Come on now.
You make a lot of assumptions for someone who claims to play at Red ranks.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I know many people here and in other Discords pretty much universally agree that killers like Trapper, Wraith, Plague, and Leatherface are underperforming and need buffs.
I've been pipping/double pipping at red ranks with Wraith and Legion and do you know what I see? I see terrible survivors who don't know how to loop properly, make dumb altruism saves, and constantly make stupid mistakes that cost them the game. Or they do something incredibly cocky like they all rush for a basement save against a killer with Save the Best for Last or NOED and 3 people get downed.
You said you play solo survivor? That will make a huge difference in your success rate. I have a SWF group that I play with occasionally. Myself with 1.5k hours, one with 3-4k, and others with over 1k hours. We can pull off a 4-man escape at least 90% of the time, regardless of killer or perks. The only games where we don't is when one of us makes a bad play, or the killer snowballs too hard, or we piss around and don't do gens. When I play solo, I usually get creamed by the killer because people can't loop, or don't do gens, or I [BAD WORD] up and it costs us the game because my teammates can't pick up the slack. M1 killers are not viable at red ranks.
The main problem is SWF, but a lot of it comes down to S-tier perks being stacked and godawful map design, too. (Seriously, please, BHVR, can we get a new map designer? Pretty please?) A 4-man solo with experience and coordination can be just as scary as a 4-man SWF with comms and full loadouts. The fact that you never see these players just tells me that you don't play killer at red ranks.
3 -
And here, I'll post some games that I played over the past week just to prove that I'm not bullshitting to anyone here.
Again, this isn't PROOF that these killers are viable at red ranks. It just means that the survivors in these games play exceptionally poorly.
2 -
Plague isn't a BAD killer, to be lumped in with Trapper and Wraith.
She's a flawed killer in her design because what should be a fun and interactive power boils down to "everybody is broken" and you don't touch your power button again for 10 minutes.
She still nets a high kill rate, her power essentially halves survivability regardless, meaning she can either stack stalling perks and slow the game down enough to kill weakened survivors, or she can stack chase perks and blitz through pallets fast enough to end her half as many chases fast enough.
The reason she isn't popular or seen very often is because if you can't encourage survivors to cleanse, her power gets very dull fast.
0 -
I have always found it odd how the wraith is considered a stealth killer. He essentially yells ‘Sneak Attack!’ And waits 3 seconds before he can hit anyone.
0 -
Can you get 4ks with non viable killers? Yes.
Is it as easy to do without using the three top tier killers? Lol no.
Its like saying survivors can escape without using non meta perks, like sure you can do it, but if you really want to escape then why would you?
0 -
It's quite simple really. Killers are only useless against skilled survivors.
That's because those survivors are very optimal in their looping, which means killers without anti loop abilities are going to struggle hard.
Survivors don't have to be in a SWF commando squad to be overpowered. Just four really optimal survivors getting matched together is enough to be overpowered.
Granted, there are other factors to consider, such as killer, add ons, and the map ect. But generally speaking, survivors can reliably win against most killer setups on many of the maps.
1 -
Nah you just haven't played with an optimal team to actually know why most killers arent viable at red ranks
0 -
To add to this, an optimal survivor, for the most part, is working on gens as much and as often as possible. With only one survivor able to be chased at once the other three will attach themselves to a gen. Toolboxes make it easier for them but they aren't necessary.
This is my view of optimal. Though, once a survivor realizes that's all that is required that is all they will focus on.
0 -
Soo to what I've read. People dont take videos etc as proof that killers work at red ranks despite them being...at red ranks. The win just mean garbage survivors...but if they lose it's because the survivors are too good and the killer character used is bad...???????? What.....? It makes it sound like its every excuse as to why it's the survivors fault on whether a killer is good or bad. Huh? Strategy and skill do play a factor. It's not one sided. I dont understand. Either they suck or they dont. Just because you lose to survivors at red rank doesnt make the killer bad. Just cause you win at red ranks doesnt mean the killer is good either though...it just means bad survivors. This argument is kinda stupid and flawed in both aspects.
0 -
What he said
0 -
most killers are not viable at rank 1, that's just a fact, no idea who you are playing against but clearly you are not playing vs the same survivors that I am.
viable at r1
Nurse
Spirit
Fredy
Billy
so 4 killers out of however many there are now.Not really acceptable.
It should also be noted that the only viable killer vs r1 SWF groups is omega blink nurse.
0 -
The survivors I’m seeing at red ranks are worst then the green/yellow ranks it’s ridiculous I feel like I want to down rank to get decent people, I have no clue how these people even got to this rank in the first place
0 -
I've seen multiple rank 1's get instantly downed by none top tier viable killers on a daily basis.
Red ranks at rank 1 have a huge spectrum from straight dodoo to very good looper, and I always see the dodoo. We also got to keep in mind that at the highest level of play we are extremely greedy with pallets. I will take the hook more often than not to save a really good pallet.
People cry out about imbalance for a number of reasons, but SWF is among the top contributors. They feel only a select few of things are viable because they lost horribly a few times versus a full sweat squad on comms. Also, they thing they are the greatest killer in the game when they are far from it.
1 -
Dumb thread.
0 -
I mean, some people are saying that only Nurse and Spirit are viable at Red Ranks. Which is false. However, I would say that Nurse and Spirit are the only Killers who can actually fight high-coordinated 4 man SWFs. But those are really a minority (a really, really small minority), so the game should never be balanced around those kind of groups.
But in Red Ranks vs Solos or more Casual SWFs, I think there are more Killers which are capable of winning. Some examples can be easily seen on Stream, even if tru3 is saying that only Spirit or Nurse are viable, he gets 4Ks with other Killers. TheEntityLeftHand is playing Trapper at Rank 1, one of the more weaker Killers (however, he is playing that much Trapper, sure he does good with it).
In my opinion, the following Killers can work at Red Ranks:
Nurse, Spirit-->vs highly coordinated 4 man SWFs
Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Hag, Myers, Huntress, Plague, Freddy, Pig (I might be biased here, had really good games lately with Pig and she might become my favorite Killer)--->Red Ranks vs Solos or Casual SWFs
The rest is more or less viable at Purple Ranks, with some Killers (looking at you Wraith, Legion, Doctor, Leatherface) needing more improvements than others.
But yeah, you can play basically every Killer at Red Ranks and have a good experience, but should not expect to win every game.
0
