The last NOED post we need
One side says it's overpowered, for noobs, rewards failure, requires no skill, ect....
I don't play survivor enough to remember all the perks and what they do. So help me out here...
What are the survivor perks that also fall into that same discription that NOED gets pinned with.
A couple that come to mind: Balanced landing, slef care, lith, adrenaline, object of obsession...
The point I'm getting at is survivors have a whole wack of tools that fall into the same discriptive category of NOED and most of them have no real way to counter. So if you honestly think NOED needs to go, so must certian survivors perks.
If you don't think that's fair then you are just entitled, and should probably take up candy crush.
Edit: to further explain my thoughts.
Is any one perk a survivor can equip as powerful as NOED? Maybe not. How ever a team using 16 of these "overpowered, for noobs, rewards failure, requires no skill, ect...." perks very easily balance a game, or even tip it to the survivors favor.
Further more most of these have no counter and the killer doesn't know when certian perks are being ran.
Point being, if this one perk can be considered game breaking for the mentioned reasons, then all the perks that fall under the same category deserve the same treatment.
Which sounds silly, so NOED is fine.
Comments
-
People get upset with NOED because they don’t do bones and feel entitled to escape if all the generators are done. Reward for failure on the survivor side would be keys and instaheals. Especially keys. You can apply enough pressure that survivors don’t finish a single gen, close the hatch, and someone can still escape. That’s rewarding failure. NOED does not reward failure.
8 -
Here a list of all the survivor perks that rewards failure i an not say are good or bad.
Breakdown,Camaraderie,Dead Hard,Deliverance,Flip-Flop,Iron Will,Kindred,Left Behind,Mettle of Man,Resilience,Slippery Meat,This Is Not Happening,Technician,Tenacity and Unbreakable
I only limit then on your failure and not the failure of your team or this list will be bigger.
0 -
The perks you mentioned for survivor do not reward failure. What they do is allow a survivor a chance of escape. The only potential ones I could see on the list would be self care cause you're injured and dead hard cause you're injured, but most high rank players use it for distance not a hit dodge anyway so..?
Deliverance, sure. But then to activate that perk which doesn't even matter because you're likely to be unhooked anyway, you must succeed in not being found first, beating your team to a safe hook safe, making sure the save is safe, etc. To activate it you must first succeed.
NOED, on the other hand, does reward failure to an extent. The perfect balance is, according to the devs, 2 kills 2 escapes. Obviously everyone has differing opinions on a win and a loss, but that's that. NOED swings the balance of the game so much more than adrenaline or deliverance or dead hard or balanced do. It makes loops redundant when you're moving at 119% speed, with an instant down ability on top of that. It's literally a low risk high reward perk. There's an argument of "Oh, they're only using three perks for the majority of the match" but so are survivors using adrenaline, and I've seen a lot of complains on that on the forums.
I get that killers were one weak, infinites; old old ds; old ds; old mom; old exhaustion- they all stacked up to a bad time and NOED came along as a saving grace. But now, it's not needed. Survivors are weaker than they've ever been (though they can still put up one hell of a fight), and killers are only getting stronger (except pig, rip pig). NOED is no longer needed as it once was, killers don't need that extra boost at endgame unless they're bad, and so it's seen as a crutch perk because it is at this point.
Now let's face it, the most common argument is "Just cleanse totems." Now in a swf on voice comms then that's all well and good, you know exactly how many totems have been cleansed, you know who's doing what, and it's all fine and dandy. But solo survivors? They need to waste time finding totems (with small game or without), they need to see if they can find spots where their teammates have already cleansed totems to keep count, they need to spend the time on the totem all the while they don't know if anyone on their team is doing anything useful or if they're just sat in a bush doing nothing.
Tl;dr the perks you mentioned don't fit the criteria, NOED has overstayed it's welcome, and the people it needs to punish the most (swf who gen rush) end up getting punished the least.
So imo, it needs a change.
3 -
I've been reading the "NOED is OP" posts and its just... very entitled ... they don't want to do anything, but also don't like it.. They want to have it just disappear so they don't have to "Do" anything... Just because you don't like something AND don't want to do ANYTHING to "Counter" it.... does not mean that is an argument for it to just be removed from the game.....
It's just "I do not like this and I don't want to put any effort in what so ever.... please fix this" is like...... mindboggling.
I see your point about balance and fairness with survivor perks, that seems to go over peoples heads as well. I think this is due to one side playing more than the other. It'd be nice to consider the other sides perspective more.
2 -
NOED indeed rewards failure.... it rewards the killer for the failures of the survivors who didn't do all the bones.
Yes, I too can word play.
let's be honest why people hate NOED - it's a "turn the tables" perk that shifts the momentum of the game. So many perks and addins in this game shift the momentum of the game, I wonder why people even bother complaining about them. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't like things that shift momentum or turn the tables on you, you're playing the wrong game because this game seems to be built on a foundation of mechanics that are designed specifically to cock-block your opponant.
NOED is just one in a long list of things that do this - and it's completely counterable.
People just need to do that counter and get the hell over it.
1 -
Breakdown = lost chase and you get hook free break your hook.
Camaraderie = lost chase and you about to die on the hook free 20 sec more.
Dead Hard = You get hit and you can use so you can do more loops.
Flip-Flop = lost the chase and free progress on your bar wiggling
Iron Will = You get hit and you make no noise
Kindred = lost the chase and go to hook give for free where the killer is and where the survivors are.
Left Behind = fail to do 5 gens you now can find the trap door more ez.
Mettle of Man = trash
Resilience = you get hit do thing faster.
Slippery Meat = more chances to escape.
This Is Not Happening = you get hit and you make gens faster.
Technician = you fail skill check 50 % to nothing happen.
Tenacity = lost the chase leave the area you are faster and help you survivors to pick you up faster.
Unbreakable = lost the chase and now you can pick up your self and leave any time you want.
If you think those perks are ok because the help survivors to escape then what your problem you have with NOED the killer job is to KILL survivors so if this perk help him to do it then it all ok at then end of the day. Oh and plz show me all the killer perk that rewards failure.
1 -
Honestly all perks "reward failure" Let me list my perks for BOTH of mains
Survivor (Kate)
Plunderers Instinct- I don't know all the chest placements save for the basement without this perk, ND I also get higher grade items (keys) quite easily, which helps me escape
Adrenaline- U didn't properly stealth a Killer or loop in a chase enough to not get hit, or may have even been downed. Suddenly last gen pops and boom, up a health state and running quicker
Lightweight- I'm not stealthing around the map the entire time, but it's okay cause my scratch marks, the Killers bread crumbs, vanish quicker
Left Behind- I didn't risk it all to save my teammates and didn't repair gens/open the door, but the hatch is revealed to me within a certain range
Now my Killer, good ol Freddy
NOED- Would we be here without this? I didn't stop Survivors from repairing their gens and now get a chance at some OHKs depending on if they broke all my totems or not
Remember Me- Again, didn't stop them from gen repair, but depending on how much I wacked my obsession I can slow down door opening.
BBQ&Chili- I don't automatically know where all the Survivors are despite plenty of hints (gen placement, crows, scratch marks, notifications)
Pop Goes the Weasel- I have allowed Survivors to repair gens, but now I can knock them back 15 percent after a hook
Now some of these require other than objectives to be met (hooking Survivors, repairing gens) Point is though is that ALL perks are rewards in one way, and plenty of them have counters. Wanna know NOEDs?
Cleanse totems. Done.
1 -
NOED is unfair when it comes to solo survivors. SWF is a different story, theres voice com 9 times out of 10 and they can keep track of how many totems have been cleansed.
We just need a totem tracker, let Killers and Survivors know how many dulls are left on the map. That'd possibly help a bit. (Idk if this would be balanced for SWF's, actually would like some insight when it comes to it.)
4 -
I completely disagree with totems being a waste of time as an argument on why NOED needs to be changed or removed.
To complain about noed and complain about it being a "Waste of time"... I just... I don't honestly get that lol.... it is NOT a waste of time... going to cleanse it... sure there is a risk... they might not have it.. so what? You still DID NOT get NOED... Isn't that the point? Because you don't want to get NOED? Like what matters more to you? Your "time" or getting hit with NOED? Make your choice. Because if you want to argue about wasting time at a video game... I don't know what to tell ya there.
Behavior gave us more points to cleanse, as well as a free heal as an incentive to cleanse totems. I think they are trying to tell us something.... I don't know if I see a connection.
What could it be.. :think:
0 -
Plunderers Instinct it's not that kind of perk.
Adrenaline kinda it's because your team need to do 5 gens not you.
Lightweight it's not that kind of perk.
Left Behind it's this kind of perk.
NOED it's this kind of perk.
Remember Me it's only when the obsession is still alive.
BBQ&Chili nope.
Pop Goes the Weasel nope yet again.
0 -
As one who solos 99% of his survivor games, I think you have a very distorted view of what's unfair.
FFS man, I see 2 or 3 totems WITHOUT LOOKING every damn match. Are people playing blindfolded or something? How hard is it to look around?
2 -
Decisive come to mind when describing a crutch survivor perk that rewards failure and what's worse is you can't tell who has it
0 -
Imagine thinking OoO required no skills. Reveal your location without skills in looping and routing. See how long it takes till you get sacrificed.
2 -
It would still be balanced for swf because they already have that information handy if its a full team. I dont think a totem counter (thats not tied to a perk) would break the game much, if at all.
also, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a totem counter, but maybe when the last totem is broken its break sound effect is map wide and sounds different from the other totem break sound effects.
0 -
@FrenziedRoach Why are you being so aggressive. I asked for insight for a reason, not to be attacked.. do you know what insight means? Not every person on forums is being one-sided so please stop addressing me like that. I like to discuss with respect and understanding. If you can't agree to the terms of that then please don't quote me. I also solo so I'm just speaking off of what happens with my games in Purple Ranks.
2 -
By that logic you should change and remove.
Remember me
Rancor
Fire up
Bitter murmur
Blood warden
Or any end game Killer perk for that matter considering it rewards failure.
People have already given a list of survivor perks that reward failure might as well remove those too
0 -
You didn't ask for insight or reason, you stated straight up that you thought it was unfair to solo survivors and I posted my counterpoint then made a general remark about people being blind
if you felt I was attacking you personally, that's on you.
0 -
@FrenziedRoach Did you not read the last part of my post? I specifically said I'm looking for insight maybe go back and read?
And please don't pretend you weren't being aggressive. Idc how you justify it, those comments were completely unnecessary. Learn how to address people.
1 -
This whole thematic about "x perk is op it needs to be nerfed" is kinda boring.
Yea, Noed is unfair in a way. But on some killers i play around that perk, because i have no gen pressure. (Trapper, Ghostface).
Yea, Decisive Strike is unfair. Oh, you want to kill me? NOPE! It gives survivor one free escape after being hooked. It helps against tunneling, but its also a little bit unfair to the killer doing his job. We already got the nerf that we cant stay near hook. (we loose points for that) Also, every freaking survivor can stun you at least one time in the game just with a perk. [My oppinion on Decisive Strike is, that it shouldnt be a perk, it should be an item.]
Yea, Survive with friends is kinda unfair. You have ez talking with others, normal people dont have this. So kindred helps with that (somehow). So, its also an unfair like perk.
Balanced landing is unfair and for me doesnt make any sense on survivor AND killer site. What the hell should someone begin to run after he droppes a huge place? Reducing the "stun" from jumping, fine. After that, begining to run like a maniac doesnt make any sense. (At it somehow nerf's Sprint Burst). My opinion on that is, that Balanced Landing should JUST reduce the stun from jumping and remove the sprint burst effect or maybe on a slower pace.
Lithe on other hand makes sense survivor wise. I trained to jump over an obstacle fast and then run a little faster, using the energy of the object. It would make sense to give a little sprint burst to it, but not as long as the normal sprint burst.
These two perks just doesnt make a sense at all to me. They should be balanced more. Lithe reducing the sprint burst duration and balanced landing either completly remove the sprint burst aspect or giving it the "dead hard" effect after landing.
There are several perks for survivor that doesnt make sense to be a perk thing. And also several killer perks that doesnt make a sense for me to be perks. It should be an addon in some kind.
If i could change one big thing on the survivor AND killer site: Remove some perks and shift them to items or addons. Or maybe even some on Offerings (to enhance the team based tactics on some aspects)
And i would make killer a little bit more stronger, to give them each their own stats. Make some killers standard faster and some maybe slower. Change the speed on how much left from the power you have, make EVERY addon positive AND negative (some can stay JUST positive) and things like that.
0 -
It is also very entitled that killers expect solo survivors to cleanse 5 totems against nurse or spirit and talk like it is an easy thing to do :)
Stop assuming all survivors want easy matches and free escapes
1 -
Nailed it quite good.
It's a typical pattern of killer mains or killer biased players in the forum. "what, you said noed is reward for failure??? Well then sprint burst, balanced landing etc is aswell. Ah and while we are at it, so is doing gens and escaping with adrenaline. Also, having 3 chances till you die (you die on 3rd hook) is reward for failure aswell."
They can't accept that noed is a crutch. Mainly because they are using this crutch by themselves.
3 -
I wouldn't say entitled because I hate that word on this forum but I so so so agree. I get lots of Spirits in Purple ranks solo. It is not as easy especially if you don't know that the rest of your teammates are doing gens or hanging around. I can spend half the match doing totems and if theres a Ruin (which is 8/10 of my games) then my team isn't working through it, they're all looking along with me.
0 -
How is not making injured noises, crawling faster, dodging one attack, not exploding a gen when failing a skill check a reward for failing?
0 -
The only perk that is close to noed is adrenaline. I don't understand how self care or balanced landing are similar in any way.
I would be %100 fine with an adrenaline nerf if noed gets nerfed with it.
0 -
Stop assuming what other people think without asking them? I didn't say or think that ALL survivors want easy matches and easy escapes. You are putting words in my mouth. A lot of the arguments I read are just "entitlement", that is the opinion I expressed.
And It is not ENTITLED to say cleanse the totems. I already expressed above what entitlement, there are some people out there that feel like they have a right to not be hit with NOED or they deserve not to etc..... that's not the case...
Also, that is literally what the dev's say, and that is the direct COUNTER to it... Lol. And honestly, I am speaking as an apparent "entitled" survivor btw. When I say cleanse the totems. Because it is really easy.... I do it often... I don't complain...
Look I used to think that way.. "remove noed or nerf it its too strong. etc etc".. I learned more now.. Totems are easy to find after doing them for so long now. It's just... It really is simple. It's not a complicated thing. And I don't know why people are complicating it. But to make arguments that basically are saying, hey do this because I don't like it or I don't want to... it's just... meh to me. Like you can make them, but I won't change my opinion because of those.
Edit: I also didn't say just cleanse them. I've said if you don't want to, Just LOOK around... and you can cleanse it when you realize they have it....(which is another thing that I do...) /shrug
1 -
Noed does reward losing, and saying it counters gen rushing is like saying, i should get to clean up house if survivors do what they are suppoded to. Im not saying gen speed is in a good spot for swf or anything, but frankly the fact that keys in insta heals which i agree reward failure, does not justify that noed is in a good spot. Personally totems need reworked anyway.
0 -
I would argue that we never needed any NOED posts to begin with. The perk serves an important purpose in the game. To give survivors motivation to do something besides generators. If you don't cleanse totems then you deserve to be one shotted.
0 -
Noed does reward losing
I don't get how? IMO, the match ain't over until the end game screen. There you can decide your "losing" or "wins".
There are different builds and different playstyles killers can choose, as well as survivors. I don't see how any of it is a reward for losing. You could make the same argument against adrenaline, it is a reward for losing. You get downed, and it is a free up once the gens pop.
Further, if the killer was chasing people that were injured, and then gens pop, boom everyone has adrenaline, full heals, or at least the person being chased does, they would have been instant down, but now they are full health, but OH wait... here's NOED! Boom. 1 shot... still... or you are injured already and still one shot, noed wouldn't make a difference to you. Honestly, it seems balanced to me. And this is coming from my opinion as a survivor, btw. (I'm just pointing this out, which happens in games)
I think of either situation(s) as involving strategy, you planned ahead during the lobby or not even the lobby when you looked for a match. You plan for certain situations, some perks are only FOR certain situations. Sometimes, you never get to use them, it happens. Situational perks are just that, situational.
I feel like I need to point out, even if the killer has NOED that does not mean you can't escape. Most of the time it means you most likely shouldn't go back for the save, unless you know where the totem is or could be... it's not a instant victory perk for killers...
1 -
You said "they" don't want to do anything. I understand that as all survivors, if you didn't mean that then I'm sorry I misunderstood.
Yes, cleansing totems is easy. You find them and hold m1. I'm saying that you just don't have time when going against nurses and spirits.
0 -
Then just break NOED after gates pop. Anyone can break a single totem and a killer can only chase 1 person.
The problem with NOED is that survivors don't want to do totems or will come up with reasons why they can't and killers will continue to use it because it causes survivors to complain and no one ever does totems.
Its toxic meets toxic round and round in a circle.
0 -
No problem. I meant as in the people I've read. I never generalize everyone or try to, there will always be exceptions to stuff. I think I read that from someone else tho.
But like you said about adrenaline. I mostly compare NOED with adrenaline, and the two seem to help balance each other out. Obviously the argument for adren, is the killer can't stop it, like survivors can stop NOED.
Against nurse and spirit, they are very good killers if played right. In my personal experience, for nurses especially, if they are using NOED, they are for a lack of a better word, boosted. And you have time to cleanse. If you have a teammate that can do long chases and stuff that helps with creating the extra time. I mean it's not always easy and not going to be completely easy. I know lately, especially with Inner Strength I have trouble just getting my perk to even proc lol. Like I seriously cannot find a totem (like I see the corpse of where it was). They all get cleansed too soon lol. But yeah, I just faced a mori spirit today, she just insta killed everyone. Didn't need to worry about noed... I guess... So there's that... lmao. And against nurse, Inner strength I think is great, because of the nurses calling counter.
Most my games, if the killer is using NOED, there is time to check on totems. If NOT, at the very least I check where totems could be, so I could cleanse it then.
And another thing about the time, I thought I heard someone say self care is the same or even longer than doing a dull totem and getting into a locker. There are lots of time people are "wasting" self-caring when they could work on a gen and probably have one finished... Just saying, that is something to think about. How you delegate your time in total then, like are you on a gen or just hiding ? etc. (And anyone personally I'm saying people in general.)
I just personally feel, and as they both are situational perks, that there doesn't need to be a change. And after playing so long, it doesn't seem like a big thing. It can be kind of funny when it comes outta nowhere and you least expect it. Idk. I just have fun with whatever happens.
That's just my 2cents.
0 -
Please keep your comments on this thread civil and stop attacking each other - if you are unable to discuss the matter with a bit of respect, then I request that you do not post any further on this topic.
7 -
I was not implying that I personally think NOED is a reward for failing, because I don't. If the perk just killed survivors on their way out of the gate, then that would be a reward for failing.
I was stating that majority of the people who complain about the perk, say that it is "overpowered, for noobs, rewards failure, requires no skill, ect...."
The intent was to draw a parallel between these labels, and the perks survivors can run that can also fall under the same discription. Not just the "reward for failure" part which everyone likes to gravitate towards.
Is any one perk a survivor can equip as powerful as NOED? Maybe not. How ever a team using 16 of these "overpowered, for noobs, rewards failure, requires no skill, ect...." perks very easily balance a game, or even tip it to the survivors favor.
Further more most of these have no counter and the killer doesn't know when certian perks are being ran.
Point being, if this one perk can be considered game breaking for the mentioned reasons, then all the perks that fall under the same category deserve the same treatment.
Which sounds silly, so NOED is fine.
0 -
the only survivor perks that were exactly like noed were the old DS and the old MoM. those perks are gone now. all other survivor perks are fair and nothing like noed.
0 -
I mean, if you don't see an issue with perks, go look at the Wiki.
Here is my thoughts on the matter:
NOED can be removed. The other ones can't.
Balanced Landing on every survivor makes it really frustrating for Killer. Even if they don't get the Sprint, the no stun can easily gain you distance. It really does alot for the slot.
DS.... 60 seconds is too long. That's all.
Adren is annoying for sure but it's not the worst thing... unless every Survivor has it.
Dead Hard really feels like a "Oh I messed up, let me press this button to get distance and avoid that." button. That can be annoying when I should have got the guy.
Object of Obsession is really really annoying on Killer side. If I am playing a Trapping Killer or Stealth Killer (why Ghost Face still doesn't have undetectable is beyond me) I will leave match.
Self Care gets me alot of hits as Killer, so I don't mind it. Nurse's is a good counter to it, so I see no issue with it.
But yea, just go to the wiki and draw your own thoughts. Quit being rude to each other as well. This forum is supposed to be for feedback and civil disputes. Not being rude.
0 -
I'd be 100% fine with noed if it didn't have haste
2 -
So they can't catch up to you?
Honestly, I don't like NOED cause it teaches new people to play wrong. It becomes necessary to them cause they don't learn to play better.
0 -
ye I just don't see how haste with insta down seems fair
0 -
I could get into it with Survivor perks and all, but I don't want this talk to go that way. So, i'll just say that my opinion does not match yours.
0 -
But ye I agree on it being necessary for some people
0 -
No One Escapes Death doesn't bother me, especially when I don't heal.
I think the perk is pretty balanced. :)
1 -
@NMCKE lol. Good point.
No mither, baby! Let's go!!!!
0 -
No One Escapes Death also provides a speed boost, right? I can't remember if it did or if it was removed. :(
0 -
It does. Slight speed boost.
your Movement Speed is increased by 2/3/4 %.
0 -
Ah, thank you! :D
There should be more perks like NOED!
1 -
That is a rare stance but I agree. Killers don't really seem to have many interesting AND strong perks.
0 -
Killer main here.
The way I see it is there are a few elements in each side that give great benefits. The survivors get far and away WAYYYY more overpowered #########, and can multiply it x4 for 4 survivors.
OP Killer tools:
Noed (built in counter- totems)
Ebony mori (should be removed from game)
Prayer beads (spirit only)
Iri head (huntress only)
OP survivor tools:
Dstrike
Adrenaline
Insta heal x1
Insta heal x2
Brand New part (if brought in numbers)
Keys (should be removed from game, at least the part where they open the hatch)
The Hatch itself (free escape, total bs)
Gen rushing/gen speeds (yes it's a real thing)
Anyone that thinks noed needs to be reworked, no. Just no.
1 -
The survivor equivalent of NOED is Adrenaline. While NOED can be countered by doing totems, Adrenaline has no counter.
0 -
LOL. You're not wrong. LOL
0 -
Really it's probably not fair, but it's not intended to be. I like to think of it as extra incentive to get them gates open and save your self.
Side note, I don't even run it unless I'm. Having a bad day and decide to do an end game build. Ironically most of those games the gates don't get powered...
0
