We asked for one thing with the nurse changes...
Don’t touch her base power, and what do they do? Exactly that.
We will see how damaging This is for her tomorrow, but I fear DbD just lost their only no perk, no add on, no item competitive killer.
The killers just lost their greatest defender.
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Funny thing how you assume that a Killer, who can play without Perks or Add-Ons can be good for the game, when every other Killer (except maybe Billy) needs Add-Ons (and all of them need Perks).
I mean that Nurse can use Perks like Deerstalker to slug Survivors speaks for itself, every other Killer does not have the luxury of wasting a Perk Slot for something like this.
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I've been playing Nurse since her release. A big part of her power and getting hits in was blinking to an area with two blinks, then being able to secure a hit on survivors using another two. This was most of her kit and her way of downing. This DRASTICALLY increases the time to down. I am very unhappy with the changes, as her basekit was the only kit that can handle top tier swfs without too much of an issue. I don't even use addons because I don't like them, but those were the ONLY thing she needed fixed. Now that we have addons affecting her cooldown timer, it's VERY unlikely that we will get Nurse's basekit back. F
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I, and many like me, have been using Nurse as the template for what killers should be.
Should could use her power whenever she wanted without some stupid cooldown getting in the way and making her an m1 killer while on cooldown, and it rewarded your skill each use. You could not get a hit unless you were trying, that is rewarding skill (dumpstered because you'll never catch up to them now)
She could be used without addons and perks and still stand a chance. When there is no perks or items in a tournament like setting she was pretty much the only viable killer. Now it will be a breeze to walk over any killer with or without addons (de-pip squad style)
ALL killers SHOULD be red rank viable. Devs have made it clear they don't care about that though and are fine with a few killers being unplayable in higher elo. Nurse was one such killer that only worked in high elo anyway. GONE.
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Slight changes. *wink wink*
Billy mains and Spirit mains. Look closely at your future.
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The SS tier Killer for years with just her base power level is getting nerfed. I mean, what did you expect?
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"stand a chance". She was the best Killer BY FAR for many years. Sure that there will be some Nerf at some day. Nurse is simply outdated Design, if she would have been released today, she would have had such things like a Cooldown or any other Downsides to her Power.
While I agree that more Killers should be Red Rank viable (for me, more Killers are viable in Red Ranks than Nurse or Spirit anyway, but all should be viable), Nurse is over the top. I mean, I faced a Nurse with only Ruin and BBQ yesterday, which just shows how much Bullshit Nurse is, when she only needs two Perks, while other Killers need to think which Perks they want to use (e.g. I want to use my Whispers, BBQ, Enduring and PGTW on my Hillbilly. I would love to use Nurses as well, but would either need to get rid of another Tracking Perk or my only Chase/Slowdown-Perk), while Nurse is fine with only using Tracking and Slowdown Perks... And not even those are needed with her.
I dont think that she will be super-weak with the changes, but can only say something after some testing. At least I hope that many Nurse players will play the PTB so that I can see how it is to play vs the new Nurse.
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No killer should need add ons. That in itself is broken.
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New nurse will be trash and add on dependent and even so she will still be weaker than her current weakest version.
This is a HUGE nerf
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Nurse got Legion'd.
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Lol loving how as soon as the best killer in the game for years gets slightly tuned down and everyone loses their minds. This might be a start to BHVR adjusting every killer down the line to all be playable in red ranks!
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Adjusting every killer down the line to all be playable in red ranks... if that were the case, they would need to do some major and I mean major nerfs to survivors, like another mandatory objective, longer exhaustion times, smaller maps, more gens, who knows. But to have every killer be competitively viable a lot of survivor nerfs would have to come through in many ways. Particularly with some maps.
Or this could just be BHVR removing all competitive viability in the game to have the game be played by strictly casuals that they can nickle and dime with the new battle pass, charms, skins, and who knows maybe even DbD will go F2P so they can soak in all that great micro transaction money, and with no competitive players to complain about balance they are free to make whatever they want for the soul purpose of getting money. But that could just be my paranoid self scarred by many AAA companies doing exactly that by trying to milk as much money from their product as possible.
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We lost the last bastion today my friends.
To all killer mains who agree with these nerfs: one day your killer will be on the chopping block and will get some unnecessary and excessive nerfs. And we, the ones who can defend you in your time of need, will remember that you didn't defend us in our time of need
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And every other killer except Spirit and Billy isn't viable at the highest levels of play without add-ons.
Do you not hear yourself?
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The debate of no-addon viability is often misguided.
Should addons be required for optimal play? 100%. Going without them should definitely be a disadvantage.
The problem is some killers require ad-ons to get their power to basically function AS a power (Legion and Trapper, for example) while others have powers that 'work' from the get-go but can gain utility, like Plague, Wraith (I can't believe Wraith is being compared positively to anything but the reworks actually did end up making him not a joke even if he isn't good) or to a small extent Myers (who depends heavily on having SOMETHING to interact with stalking, but not specific things like Trapper needing a way to get out traps faster to have his power be worth using. He can go detection, build rate, power duration, or sneaky sneaky, pretty much 100% of his ad-ons are either good or are ultra-rare meme builds done for fone), and Pig (Who basically has a pseudo-wraith cloak and some minor stall that can be tuned in different ways by ad-ons).
Billy and Nurse strike me as violating the opposite of this rule: Their utility isn't really increased that much via addons. Spirit to a lesser extent also doesn't care that much, nor does Cannibal.
So like... the sweet spot is stuff like Plague or Wraith in that their power is a functional kit, and ad-ons are legitimately ad-ons that give an actual gameplay advantage worth getting. I do think some of the Nurse changes helped with this (Such as moving the 'training wheels' down to common so that its easier to learn nurse) but there are 3 things to look out for: Ad-ons being too impactful, ad-ons not being impactful enough, and the base power lacking something that really should be moved from an ad-on to the base power.
Ad-ons should be customizing the experience, and letting a killer player play to strengths or make up for weaknesses, but should not generally decide the game in cases of serious skill gaps. They are a 'tech' tool. If the idea of a killer working without any ad-ons is ridiculous if the match is remotely close, the killer needs to be re-worked.
Trapper is a great example: If the survivors have a remote idea of what they are doing and trapper doesn't have roll-out ad-ons then trapper just loses the game regardless of the skill gap. Their roll-out ad-ons need to be made part of their 'base kit' (or more likely, they should start with 100% of their traps in inventory and shouldn't be able to pick up traps until they empty it, which would solve Trapper's core problem as a killer).
I don't think, and I can't believe I am defending a killer nerf because the killer community deserves nothing but love and support for all the bullshit they have put up with over the years, seems to move the nurse closer to where their ad-ons should be. Not VITAL (A blink is a blink and if you know how to use it your going to land smackaroos with it), but something that lets you customize your experience with multiple viable options to make the character more useful.
Maybe it pushes the nurse's power level down too far. I dunno. I think it might, but if they do that it would be reverted quickly because nurse is the 'Bastion' for 100% dedicated killers and if nurse gets touched too hard the killer population at high ranks would plumet and there would be some pretty extreme corrections to save the game from that reverberating through the entire player-base (like with how they did some major needed survivor nerfs after the first nurse nerf). But the actual CONCEPT of making the power less 'complete' is fine as long as the power still has clear utility and can win games where your better than your opponents by itself.
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Killers: Of course we deserve more Bloodpoints, we need Add-Ons.
Killers: Complain about using Add-Ons.
And yes, I think it is justified that Killers use Add-Ons. But some Add-Ons are way too needed, but this is not something the Nurse will suffer from I guess (e.g. Trappers Bags, you basically need them).
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Too late! I'm a Legion main!
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Well guys calm down, i do agree with the nerf of Nurse. She was excessively strong without any add-ons and perks even if i'm main killer and love playing her she needed a nerf. I'm just questionning myself about the 3sec cooldown for each teleport, with a speedmove at 3meters/sec she would be easy to run i think but they can change her before the release on official servers...
In the same time, if they are chaging so much killers i expect they will make something about the genrush problem : as a killer at redranks you can encounters swf teams who rush gens in 5min and this is too strong. We really need something to slow down the genrushing if BHVR is nerfing all top tiers killers. Because at red ranks we needed strong killers like nurse to counter this rushes
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What I hope that might happen now:
Before the changes, you were not really able to balance. You cannot bring every Killer to Nurse-Level, this would be insane. But now with a lower level, they might be able to buff all other Killers OR change the way the Survivor Objective works. Not really possible to balance around something when there is the Nurse, who simply does not fit into the game (like I said earlier, she is outdated design).
So I would guess that the Nurse-Nerf is something in a bigger picture.
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you said everything bro :) We needed the nurse nerf but we need some corrections in the objectives for survivors or more boost on some low-tiers mid-tiers killers to be viable at the highest levels !
Next change for killers : add-ons for doctor ^^ (they said it)
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I just wished the bloodpoints add-ons would reward the bloodpoints AFTER the trial, not within so you can max it out and still got the extra bloodpoints.
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Weird that you think that it's healthy for the game when killers depend on strong perks + add-ons while survivors can run whatever fun build they want or go perkless without problems.
If I misunderstood and you think that all killers should be viable without perks and add-ons, correct me please.
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Add Ons exist for the reason to use them. It is bizarre to think it is ok to have a Killer who does neither need Add Ons nor Perks. How can you balance around that when one Killer does not need this stuff, but others highly depend on using Add Ons?
I doubt that Nurse will be in a state that you have to use certain Add Ons to make her work (like you have to do with Killers like Trapper(Bags) or Wraith(Windstorm/Swift Hunt Combo)), but that different Add Ons give her some different options during the game(like Freddy).
And well, I hope for all Killers to be at roughly the same Level. This is not possible with current Nurse. Maybe it is now better to balance the game, when there is not that one Killer, which has outdated design and breaks the game.
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Yes cause 4man SWF with OoO is fine. Meanwhile you can Play Survivor ez Pz without perks. What does that tell you About balance? Breaks all game mechanics? Yeah only for boosted survivors.
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@Aven_Fallen "Add Ons exist for the reason to use them. It is bizarre to think it is ok to have a Killer who does neither need Add Ons nor Perks."
It is bizarre that this should only apply to killers and not survivors.
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I dont see that many Survivors with Meme Builds or no Perks in Red Ranks tbh.
And it is a strange logic to say that Killers need more BPs than Survivors, because they need to use Add-Ons, but than they are not willing to accept that the one Killer who does not need Add-Ons and is the best for years will get nerfed.
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Survivors at high ranks bring the good stuff either simply because they can or because they wouldn't stay at high ranks without.
And you are derailing. The question we are discussing is: Is it fair that killers have to equip perks + add-ons while survivors don't? If you think "yes, I want it to be that way", just say so and we'll move on.
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Fairness is such a subjective thing.
I mean, from the point of: Survivors dont need Items/Killers need Add-Ons, sure it would not be fair. But other things in this game are also not fair, like, why should I need certain Perks to go against certain Killers?
But when we take into account that Killers earn more BPs AND have BBQ, which leads to even more BPs by simply doing the Objective, there should not be any problem for Killers to equip Add-Ons. Like, even a mediocre game will get 25k BPs, make that 50k with BBQ. This is one Bloodweb at Level 50. So Add Ons are easily affordable.
What is not ok are Add-Ons which are basically needed for the Killer to be playable. I gave examples for that. And no, I dont think that Nurse will go into this category. She will use Add-Ons in the future, but I guess this is fine, with the amount of BPs Killers can earn during their games.
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@Aven_Fallen When you try to trivialise unfairness by saying "fairness is such a subjective thing", then there is really no point here.
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If you go for exactly 6 words out of my posting, yeah, there is no point.
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It just doesn’t make any sense, only 2 things needed to be changed, extra blinks and omegablink. Why the hell change every other add on making them useless and even butcher her basekit. Unbelievable.
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Do you not hear yourself? Add-on reliance is one of the biggest reasons certain killers are low tier.
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She'll still be top tier without add-ons.
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