People who never played high rank, base Nurse
Also to survs who don't touch Nurse or Killer
You can comment your opinion, but it also means you really don't know the niche parts, and the weaknesses of Nurse. New nurse is problematic because of these things. Coming from a Nurse main from the start.
1. You blink twice to get mobility, whatever. This can be nerfed somehow like add extra fatigue, but it is a thing. (I play other killers too.)
2. Chases. Oh boy, chases. Dead Hard was already a Nurse counter that could extend Chase's for an additional 10-15 seconds. Now? I'd say a good survive can squeeze a good 30-45 secs out of you. On an m1 killer, we all know that's bad for them, well same here. She becomes much weaker in this area not only just cuz of a perk but because now Nurse has trouble keeping up with you. Remember, this is the process.
A. She blinks at you. She may do it again, if you were far enough away. If the Nurse gets a hit, you get a sprint burst and she immediately fatigues. You're half way across the map and she won't catch up nearly as fast anymore. (This may be a healthy change). If she does not get a hit, she must endure the Chain Blink Window (~1.1 ish seconds) followed by fatigue (2.5 seconds) where she will recharge 1 blink .5 seconds later.
B. If the Nurse decides to use her 1 blink to try and catch up, she won't. She won't even get anywhere near you, especially if you took a hit. And she will also fatigue again and must recharge.
C. If she waits, you gain an absolute TON of distance. And she still, may not even catch up.
3. Yes, vs bad survivors she is fine, just about as powerful as before. Vs good survs, you simply won't keep up like you used to. The Fragile Wheeze is basically a MUST for her now.
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Oh and for reference, I do play Survivor. I'm rank 1 surv every season and enjoy facing Nurses (base kit). She is even more fair than Spirit.
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Is... is this a love letter to the Killer Haters?
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Well, yes.
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Couldn't help but laugh. <3
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Trying to justify Nurse before her nerf is pointless.
At the end of the day she broke the game in so many ways and killers relied on the Nurse to carry them through the ranks like it was nobody's business. So what you'd come across the odd survivor who because they've played against so many Nurse's have become good at using their resources to stay alive against her.
That being said, I don't agree with all the gutting she has been given but hey. I was sitting here hoping they'd nerf Spirit.
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Okay, so Nurse chase now takes 30 seconds longer instead of 10 seconds longer.
This is a huge problem for a nurse main who plays in the high ranks, apparently.
Somehow, I don't see that as a problem.
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It's mainly the fact that generators go by so fast you need fast downs. That's why the top tier, is top tier. End chases quickly and have big pressure.
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How about those of us who have played high rank base nurse and realized the basekit was the reason the addons sent her power into the stratosphere? I might actually go back to playing her now that she's not a guaranteed win in 95+ percent of games if you play well.
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No she didn't... or at least not as much as gen rushing itself is game breaking. There is a reason she was picked more, like spirit and billy, at high ranks... because she's one of the few viable killers. Theoretically, you can take legion to rank one. Will you? Heck no.
She made survivors play in different ways to what they are used to... stealth, or juking. I hate to say it, but it's really about getting good as survivor to know how to counter nurse.
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A killer shouldn't require perks or addons to do well. That's why Billy, Spirit, and pre-rework Nurse were picked so much. Because you aren't forced to take Ruin every game, nor use certain addons to have the edge you need to win.
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imo, the whole point of killer is to be in control of the game. Nurse got nerfed because survivors had to play the Nurse's game, not how the survivors usually play. I see this in my nurse games with no juking or mindgames on the survivors side whatsoever. Now, nurse is arguably on the same level as legion when comparing her movement potential to survivors movement potential. The whole point of fatigue was to give survivors a chance to lose LOS, but apparently that wasn't enough. I say, that they should keep her addon changes as the original ones were complete BS, but keep her power the same.
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''A killer shouldn't require perks or addons to do well.'' Do you even hear yourself when you're typing crap like that out? So really if all killers were very good without perks slapping really good perks on them would just buff their already good power and throw survivors into the dirt, this is exactly why things like Nurse were nerfed in the first place.
I used to be like you and claimed that there was counterplay to Nurse and I frequently played her at red ranks all the damn time. And during all of my time playing her I learnt that I was wrong. Her basekit was so damn good, it ignored nearly every bit of counterplay that this game offers to you as a survivor. The only counterplay is to break LOS and hope she messes up so you can capitalize on her mistake, in short; a guess.
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But when survivors have their counterplay vs any killer who isn't the top tier they get to rush gens ASAP, using their voice comms and loop the killer for 2 gens then take turns.
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It's quite clear I won't get anywhere trying to properly formulate an argument against you. It's a trend with these forums that someone is either killer or survivor. I however choose to look at it from both perspectives and be fair to both sides.
However I'm going to try now.
Here is what you seem to miss about the survivors perspective. Their ONLY objective is to do gens, what you are calling genrush is the survivors simply doing what the game wants them to do. Voice comms only apply to SWF and even then you must think that every single SWF is on the level of the depip squad, constantly announcing every single thing the killer is doing to have the utmost advantage; this doesn't happen in every game and people need to stop acting like it does happen in all their games.
Obviously you're going to bump into a SWF group that is going to kick your tushy, but you act like you're completely helpless against them, you aren't. Myself and tons of other people have gone against tryhard SWF teams and have won, you just have to play much better with less mistakes. I'm not saying SWF is okay right now, it isn't okay and it does need to fall into line with how the general balancing of the game is.
Let's take a look at what happened when they made another killer with VERY limited counterplay, the Spirit.
Nearly everybody is up in arms against Spirit because of her power being near impossible to counterplay because at the end of the day you can't counter what you can't see, you can take an educated guess but even if you guess right you didn't outplay her, you guessed right.
Killers are in the best spot they've ever been in Dead by Daylight before but each side is screaming that one side needs more or this needs a nerf or a buff. At the end of the day each killer should have a form of counterplay to their kit so it isn't a complete stomp fest with nothing they could do, this is what Nurse was before, a killer with her basekit completely ruining the survivors ability to do anything against her aside from LOS breaks and just hoping she guessed wrong.
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Survivors don't have to have perks to do well. They can complete gens really quickly even without a toolbox, and can survive easily without any perks if they tried. Killers shouldn't need them either. It's that simple. What's confusing about that?
A perk is not supposed to make them better by default, but change how a killer plays, or, perhaps, with SMART play, improve them. Addons are the same.
Are you ok with Legion being physically impossible to down people using their power? Because now that nurse has that kind of problem forming, I'm curious to know about Legion, who also has issues survivor mains don't want the devs to fix.
There is counterplay to nurse. Hide from her, outsmart her, or juke her. Also Dead Hard exists, and exhaustion perks help. Just don't loop. I don't see what the issue is... and I do play at high ranks. Nurse's kit rewards a killer's motor skill and punishes a survivors mistake of being found.
"At first I used to be like you". Did you play at high ranks as a killer at some point, or did you stop playing killer... because it sounds high and mighty with a tinge of survivor bias.
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You're literally saying that killers shouldn't require perks to do well, that alone tells me that going in on a debate with you would be utterly pointless, Legion wasn't meant to down people with their power.
''There is counterplay to Nurse.'' Aside from hiding from her (which is a dumb argument considering you can say that about any killer) there isn't really much else you can do, ''outsmart her, juke her.'' It's really easy to just say isn't it? The only thing you can do to juke a Nurse is break LOS and hope she reads you wrong, again this is simply a guess.
And perks are supposed to help killers and survivors and people base their ENTIRE playstyles around what perks they are running so that is a really silly argument in of itself. If a killer didn't need perks to do well then that'd be an extremely boring experience and nobody would be having fun, guess what pre nerf Nurse was exactly this.
And no, I play high ranks as killer and survivor all the time. I'm not being survivor biased at all, but no I used to be like you, blindly defending something (in this case Nurse) and claiming that she had counterplay and didn't deserve nerfs even though someone in this thread pointed out how she had EVERYTHING going for her and nothing bad about her.
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So here's the thing, Nurse has a fatigue and she moves really slow. Stealth is way easier vs her. That's why loads of Nurse players run tracking. She is really bad at it.
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Survivor, aha. With a Nurse on the avatar. Nothing bias, believe me :D
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What? Would you like to see my rank as survivor? I believe all dbd players must play both sides.
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You can have a red rank on both sides (this is not so difficult), but have sympathy for one side, or be main Nurse when play on the killer side. You didn’t just no reason put a nurse on an avatar, don't you?
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I remember you writing she's still S-Tier and her addons are really good.
Anyway, her new counter, running in a straight line, is just dumb. Without cooldown addons you can just run her around the map for ages. Now vsing nurse is pretty boring. I made a whole review of her addons and the only viable ones i found were the cooldown addons and Campbell's Last Breath, although it's very difficult to time the second instablink.
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Lmao all those ppl saying nurse has counterplay haha funny , If the nurse is not a completely potato you are not getting away is all in the nurse If she decides to make a mistake or not
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It's funny you say that, because when i play Wraith, if the survivor is not a complete potato i am not getting him. All the survivor decides to make a mistake or not.
Old base nurse got good counterplay, but people like you didn't wanted to see it, that's why she got killed.
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"C. If she waits, you gain an absolute TON of distance. And she still, may not even catch up."
It's 0.5 meters different to now.
Seeing people trying to justify keeping Nurse as broken as possible is just hilarious at this point.
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While you make great points, you are going to get swarmed by all the people who never play killer to understand.
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Hi Hi! I took Legion to rank 1!
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The devs basically nerfed her aggressiveness. You can still be effective in chases, but now survivors are given an extra 2-3 seconds to find cover. In all honesty, this wouldn't be the worst thing ever if all the maps were open like Blood Lodge. But they're not, so Nurse is going to have some issues going against good survivors on certain maps.
I've been saying this so many times, but Nurse is meant to be an aggressive killer. Having to wait after fatigue in order to blink is not fun. There are ways to nerf the blink power without making Nurse less fun to play.
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She won't be winning any high rank games vs anyone good, so you enjoy your new toy I guess.
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Sorry potato survivors have to accept that when they lose vs a basenurse without addons that the player was simply better or that they made mistakes.
Killing potatoes is not a proof of something being broken.
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Well coordinated survivors are strong enough already. However this is true for most killers that you are most likely not gonna get a 4k against a team that is so well coordinated.
Where are killer mains setting the bar for what's good and what isn't? Is the capability to get a 4k? Old nurse was able to do that nearly every game played.
I take Legion to red ranks all the time. I get 4ks all the time as well. Does this mean Legion strong? Because you have people here saying that "would you take Legion to red ranks? Heck no". I don't understand where that's coming from good sir... that is Legionist.
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Skilled nurses will. Not the caliber of nurses all crying in the forums though, that's for sure. They will surely struggle.
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Old Nurse was a good killer in the wrong game.
She ignored the main mechanics of chase and once you got her down, you usually always lost.
This nerf for her was totally justified. She’s still extremely strong even after the changes.
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You won't get through players that DC against her or never learned how to run a Nurse. The notion you are a rank 1 survivor that likes facing Nurses is lost. Any Nurse not 4k or 3k/hatch is somehow bad and has nothing to do with how the survivors played won't understand the point you are making.
We can all agree on one thing here. Her addons needed work. I personally don't care if they were all point farm jokes or just plain bad.
The current state is simple. After a two blink swing (3.5s fatigue) it takes 4 fully charged blinks to catch up to a survivor running in a straight line. No mind game, no running for LoS blockers, just running straight.
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You mean skilled survivors will have an even easier time now. No need for survivors to struggle against nurse now, just run in a straight line and press E if you make a mistake while nurse makes no mistakes but still waits helplessly to use her power again while you run away.
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I like how you Keep spamming that, those 4 potatoes are simply not good survivors. You can spam this Video as much as you want but damn they are so horrible. No Video of true this time where one Person kills himself on the first hook after 2min into the game and another is so bad he doesn't even know how to throw pallets correclty?
I think what most of you totally ignore is the fact that Nurse reappears way sooner than before and that also makes it so much easier to juke her. Sorry survivors being bad doesn't justify nerfs.
It really annoys the hell out of me that you People try to abuse balance discussion for easy wins. it simply takes the fun out of the game from a Survivor Point of View. I want to have at least some Kind of challenge. Keep base Nurse as is.
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Idk why people use him as an example. The guy is average at killer at best.
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Not like the gameplay footage is relevant, They have both the same opinion tho and I'm sure they have a bit of experience to say what they say.
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My argument was how painful was that for you? There was a reason Nurse was at high ranks.
(I've taken Legion to rank 2, but am not going to put myself through that again.)
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Oh, i'm sorry. I got confused! I'm used to alot of people hating on Legion for no reason! But I have fun playing Legion, so It was fine for me win or lose.
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Yeah, you should know I have nothing against legion, I'm just being realistic about their situation with those that care about ranking.
(BTW, what do you think of the new legion cosmetics coming soon?)
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(They are so so good! I want the Frank one the most I think)
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I would get julie's because I'm a julie main, but I'd at least get Frank's body cosmetics. Not a fan of the knives though, even if they are aztec obsidian sacrificial blades.
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what if her base movement speed was increased to 100% then?
that way, survivors wouldnt be able to gain additional distance while you recharge your blinks, but could reposition themselves.
this comes from a baby nurse, i have to admit that :(
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I mean the extra distance survivors get from Nurse compared to before is very little. All that was changed is that she has to wait 3.5 seconds after fatigue until she can blink again. In that time survivors will at the most gain one extra meter distance to the Nurse.
I fail to see how Dead Hard will now buy her 45 seconds time if it was 15 seconds before. After 3.5 seconds she has her blink back, and she can get to you normally again. Unless of course those 3.5 seconds allows survivors just enough time to get out of range of her double blink. But I doubt that since they can't even gain a distance of 1 meter from her in that time.
If anything, I feel like the devs should just increase her base movement speed to 100% and she'll be fine. At the very most they could decrease her blink recharge time to 2.5 seconds and then weaken the addons that decrease the recharge of her blinks.
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Yeah, if you aren't using comms for the game it doesn't really matter if you're grouped then right? We can just nix SWF. I mean you're all just sitting in Discord quietly enjoying the game. Not.
There are two types of SWF. Those who have mastered the game and the exploit of VOIP and those trying like hell to do so.
The killer has to play 4 on 1 while on the clock. The survivors do not. The survivors can take an hour to do gens if the situation warrants it. There is no luxury for killers to do the same.
Survivors have at minimum 16 perks. A killer 4. A fair scenario would be for each survivor to have 1. A fair balancing ideal would be for 1 survivor on average to survive, not 2.
The "power" of survivors is being able to attack on multiple fronts at the same time. Of course it's always left out of balancing discussions. What isn't fair is for each of the 4 survivors to be given enough power or the killer enough nerfs as to be able to 1v1 the killer to victory yet that seems to be the unending battle cry.
Hell, just look at the "balance" in map offerings. The survivors can run 4 of the same one, the killer 1. Guess who wins?
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That's really not true. Just like killers are going against the clock because gens are getting done, survivors are going against the clock because the killer is hooking survivors until they are sacrificed.
Regarding perks, the scenario of every survivor only having 1 perk would only be fair if that perk affected every survivor. It is a 4 v 1 after all, and these perks are balanced around one of the 4 survivors running them.
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The 4 have independent agency. They are not controlled by 1 mind. That is an advantage. The killer is only hooking and sacrificing survivors if they are found, caught, and downed. Gens don't hide or run loops.
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How is that not a problem? That’s the difference between the last gen getting done and 3-4 escaping, vs 3-4k. Do you play this game?
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My solution to gen rush? Find the weakest link and tunnel him. He either DC's or he dies. Rinse and repeat.
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