What happened to "closing the gap between solos and swf"?
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Maybe the answer is to alter the ranking into regulars (where you gather pips but never lose any, and on reaching rank 1, get 400 auric cells and return to gray 20) and solo ranked. That means any SWF team CANNOT que for the ranked part (where pips can be lost at rank 16 etc). Rewards for solo ranked season: rank 10... 200 auric cells, rank 1.. 400 auric cells.
Auric cells could be substituted for a cosmetic or a badge
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We don't need a counters for M1 killers. Just more info about what other players are doing, who is being chased, who is doing gens etc.
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I’m actually cool with solo survivors getting buffed up to swf level if that means devs won’t nerf Spirit(prayer beads included) and they revert Nurse changes. How about that?
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I want to state some of my opinions before joining in on zhe debate:
- There are no ingame differences nor different score juries between solo and swf/cwf
- All buffs to "solo" will also affect "swf/cwf"
- Swf's advantage is knowledge about the posssible "skill", playstyle and intentions of the other survivors
- Cwf's advantage is real time information exchange.
- Regardless of this topic, weaker killers' abilities should be buffed to get closer to strong ones.
First thing, Survivors dont want swf to become the norm, it's Cwf theyre gunning for. To implement swf to all survivors, the lobby would only need to display the average survival-percentage and eblem scores for the last X games for every survivor.
Now there are multiple ways to normalise cwf, the cheapest way being "just add voicechat. That said a huge chunk of the community would hate this implementation, even with regilatory options (turn it off, working reports etc).
There are quite some ideas thrown around to give more info to survivors without resorting to VC in this forum. Among others:
- "Current action/status icons" in the hud
- Game message systems (IdV uses one)
- Assorted ideas about ping tools or non automatic "current status"-messages
- Implementing certain Aura reading into the base kit (I list this despite my opinion that this might possibly even stronger than voice chat)
I feel the need to explicitely point out again that people putting VC to good use already will also benefit from instant HUD-information. Every piece of info they dont have to ask for will reduce the time spend investigating and allow quicker coordination.
Another thing would be the survivor-killer balance. I'll flatout claim that closing the gap between solo and cwf will need massive compensation. I'd prefer to not include changes to killer abilities in this topic, as those are more part of the killer-killer differences.
I think such a compensation needs to focus on the basic killer mechanics or survivor-killer interactions. Sadly I dont have many examples at hand for this, Im rather tired at the time of writing this:
- Map size
- Generators regress at 0.33/s, survivors need to repair 2charges until the regression stops (should take about 3-4 seconds). Numbers are just examples.
- Fix killer hearing
- Fix killer eye position
- Make vaulting healthy survibors grappable. (Maybe an unnanounced "hard" skillcheck to "only get injured" instead of grabbed)
- Something I thought up myself would be to punish survivors for getting hit midaction. IDV handles this with instantdowns, but that would be too much in dbd. Flinching survivors in place (ministun) on actions like healing, possibly with a slight regression and interruption. On vaulting, "the remainder" of the animation could be slowed down slightly (survivors falling down for a moment after getting hit while jumping through a window, for example). Would probably need a lot of new animations to not look stupid.
- "Bad" ideas would be brainlessy tweaking variables like ms and attack-cd.
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Spirit.
Don't even need to change anything. Right now she is currently able to handle SWF.
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Why isn't Kindred being available to everyone by default, especially since that information is one of the primary reasons why SWF is so much stronger than Solo players? Why not have a totem counter as a default survivor skill, since SWF can easily figure out that information?
Why, if you are actually trying to close the gap between SWF and solo survivors, are you cherry-picking which information-sharing should be privileged for SWF groups, and which should be accommodated for Solo players? Why aren't you making the effort to actually give Solo the same exact information that SWF are able to attain, so that they can be on the same level (so that all killers can then be adjusted to that same skill ceiling)?
The small examples you've given in your post may slow the rate of the ever-growing gap between SWF and Solo players (as new contents continually gets added), but it certainly isn't stopping the gap from increasing by any means, never mind actually 'reducing' the gap. Unless you specifically address the differences between SWF and Solo players in its current build and tackle it head on, it really doesn't matter how much you are keeping it in mind when creating new content - the gap won't ever be reduced.
In my honest opinion, Behaviour should be forthcoming in their plan about bridging the SWF/Solo gap in one of their upcoming Developer Updates and show the community that this is one of their primary focuses in balancing the game.
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that statement sort of felt like it dodged the question. Ghostface getting revealed by hooked and down survivors annoys the killer more than it does anything to shrink the gap between SWF and Solo. Changes like that intentionally make the killer power weaker for no reason.
The gap between SWF and Solo stems from base game play, not from external interactions between killer powers. Communication through 3rd party programs provides information that shouldn't be accessible in the game. For example, A single person running object of obsession gives entire survivor team near perfect and complete information for what the killer is doing when the perk is suppose to be only for the player using it. They also gain access to perks like Kindred, Alert, Bond, Better together and Empathy, on top of all that, they also get all meta-powerful perks. I mean just imagine being to select 10 perks on killer, It would probably be pretty crazy. Using all these information perks, they can accelerate the game tempo because of enhanced coordination. They also mess up a lot of killer powers for example, Hag/Trapper traps lose their surprise factor or status effects like Knockout/Blindness lose their potency. SWF is like only thing in the game where you get no negatives and just massive buffs to survivor for free. It would be fine for SWF to exist the way it does now, but only if the base game was balanced for that. In my personal opinion, Playing SWF and using it properly is kinda like cheating now for most of the M1 killers. On the bright side, only like 10% of the matches are SWF so only 10% of your matches are miserable. I would like to imagine how it would be if it was every match. In that regard, It's not that big of an issue if it only affected smaller portion of the games but it's still in the game.
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actually, while only 10% are 4 mans, about 50% of games contain SWF players.
If a 2 man duo is close enough to solo for you then fair enough, but otherwise it's far more than 10%.
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add mine too!
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I also agree with both of these
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Im all for buffs. Buffs for solos survivors would mean buff for killers in general. My only concern over what period time would these killers be getting buffs to bridge the gap? Newly released killers would probably not be an issue as they could be created with the new level playing field but what about the older ones?? The devs dont have the greatest of track record when it comes to reworks.
See old freddy and how long he remained in the state he was before he was changed.
See legion who remains in a butchered state even today (also plenty of threads constantly asking or suggesting or brainstorming possible buffs etc etc)
The nurse is only just now about to go live with the changes the devs implemented but she had been basically the way she was since shes been in-game.
And theres still a list of killers which they have on the radar for tweaks and add on rework? How long will this grand picture if closing said gap truly take???
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I personally hate playing in swf. It's impossible to concentrate with all the talking. Only buff I really care about for solo is making Kindred basekit. They only reason to oppose this is if you are camping. In which case I don't care if you oppose it. A chase indicator would be cool. But with Bond and Empathy I don't think it's needed really.
Maybe rework Kindred to show the killers aura to other survivors when you're in chase.
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(like my thread in feedback)
*Cries in Legion main*
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You know, Legion's playstyle sounds fun to me in theory, but with all the BS you have to put up with that limits the power of FF, I'm really hesitant to actually pick him up.
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It's fun and honestly Legion is WHY I came back to DBD after 2016-17.
But as they are right now... just know that you are going in crippled, but that Feral Frenzy is fun at times.
Old Legion sucked too. The Devs are even QUOTED as saying they built Old Legion for Fun, not to be good. Which is like in Kung Pow: Enter the fist where they taught that one guy wrong as a joke. That's why I have my 7 page long thread in Feedback about Rework and buff ideas. Legion is my favorite Killer hands down, but I should not have to feel like that guy you see in anime "Taking off the weighted clothes to fight for real this one time." When I play another Killer.
It's up to you man, I enjoy them enough to keep playing but it will hurt at times... very badly.
Which is why you see me say
*cries in Legion main*
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I'd rather all survivors be on an equal footing and not be toxic, thank you very much.
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I've said this in
I've said this in other posts but I'll say it again. Nerfing SFW and penalizing people playing a video game with buddies is one of the quickest ways to lose survivor players. You think killer lobbies are queuing long how? Just wait until the "nerf survivors" train reaches a breaking point. Playing a leisurely game with your friends should never be penalized.
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Or, and hear me out.. we do BOTH.
Make solo buffed to swf and buff killers to accomodate.
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The joy of playing with friends shouldn't come at the expense of other people's fun. When a killer runs into a good SWF group, they have no hope of victory. I often see killers just disconnect when they run into a Rank 1 SWF group.
And it's difficult to have fun with friends when your opponents immediately leave once they know that you're playing in a group, wouldn't you agree?
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This is a wet dream and not possible. The core of the game is not designed for SWF.
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Yeah sure, it's always fun to get 1 hooked cuz every team mate thinks that someone else is going to unhook. Yeah big wow and much fun playing a match like that
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There is, it's called 2nd objective aka making games longer.
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That's on the killer for disconnecting. That's not a development flaw. Just bad sportsmanship.
A good group shouldn't be punished for being good and having buddies. A rank one killer has plenty of opportunity to score high in a four man swf. If a 4k is the sole way to win a match, yes that will be difficult. It's not though. Scoring highest is also a victory. The thing is, there cannot be punishment for playing a game with friends. Even if you're good.
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I've always been for empowering the solo survivor with the understanding that doing so would free the devs to empower the killers more to compensate.
Ideas in this area that make sense include....
- why is the obsession the only one we get a chase indicator for? Why not all of them?
- Totem counter on perks like Small Game is a reasonable concession I'm willing to make regarding totems and countering NOED.
- Kindred should be given as a perk to all new survivor characters, along with unlocking ALL the perk slots for both sides. Camping is most prevalent in the lowest ranks and thus it's a good idea to put it in the hands of new characters immediately. More experienced survivors can counter it effectively even outside of SWF, thus making it basekit is unnecessary.
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No, I didn't mean in-game VOICE Chat.. I completely agree, I hate games that have built-in Voice Chat!
I was just referring to a chat box.. like if I press "Enter" on my keyboard as a Survivor when I am mid-game I would be able to type something that pops up for my other Survivor Teammates..
I personally don't believe that this would "break" the game, but at the least it would give SOLO Survivors more ways of Communicating with each-other like SWF has.
I would be on-board with a change like this personally.
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Honestly, just give whoever's being chased a "Red Stain" effect in the HUD, that'll show survivors when an ally is being chased and let killers know who they're chasing when their match is a clone war.
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Again with different languages it could still be problematic and it gives users a way to be toxic by typing things while in game to people. Not to mention having to take the time to type something out.
Now a system that identity v has is you have some phrase choices from a list they made, that may help as it could be a simple button press for a menu and select the one fitting the situation or on PC bind to a set key.
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Survivors complaining about Kindred not being base kit remind me of killers complaining about Ruin not being base as well.
If you think Kindred is such a good perk....run it if you play solo survivor.
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All it would take is in game voice coms and a text chat with some mute options. Every other game has it and balances around it. This one doesn't, so third party apps like discord break the game.
This is literally the only good solution but they refuse because it "hurts the atmosphere for solo survivors."
You know what else hurts the atmosphere that you put in the game? SWF.
Make everyone swf level by giving them the exact same constant communication level as SWF and then balance the killers around SWF. Otherwise SWF will always be disgustingly stronger than solo.
Yes they'd have to rework some perks and powers but that'd be better for the health of the game overall.
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How would the game detect people speaking from a voice chat software? It doesn't make any sense
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It's less that it's a good perk and more than it counters something important AND is effectively given freely to SWF.
The complaint about Ruin not being base kit would make a lot more sense if for half of the Killer players (not dependent on Killer choice or anything) it WAS base kit and for some reason making it not base kit for them is impossible. The remaining Killers in this case would be justified saying it should be base kit for everyone so as to not give the other Killers an unfair advantage.
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Anyways in my mind the most efficient way to approximate SWF info while almost never giving info that SWF didn't have anyways AND without needing any perk reworks is the following (in order of importance):
- All Survivors have their current action displayed on the UI. If they finish that objective then it displays a unique success icon briefly to indicate the action wasn't interrupted.
- When a Survivor is in the Killers terror radius this is indicated by the UI with the intensity increasing depending on distance. This can shift into a chase indicator when appropriate.
- Survivors within 24 meters of a Hooked Survivor have their aura revealed to all other Survivors.
- You may view other Survivors loadouts in the lobby.
And that's it.
There is certainly more you could do but this would be the minimum. It's enough info to make fully informed decisions and to execute team plays without voice comms or explicit communication, the rest is either actual team work skills (which is in theory the same with SWF) and plans (which is much harder to implement without effecting the games atmosphere).
But for now these things shouldn't make the game any less isolating since while you know things are happening you don't actually see the people doing it except for with the Hook (where you already see the hooked player).
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The big difference is that killer does not have to depend on three other randoms to do the right thing. Even with Kindred, there's no reliability that other people will act on that information.
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I play almost exclusively solo survivor (when not playing killer) and aside from the horrible DC experience I find most of my games fine. If my team isn't doing gens then I'll play for hatch. Most matches I end up doing the majority of the generators until I hit purple and red ranks at which point I find solo perfectly fine.
I can only speak to my own experiences of course.
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You must be super lucky then. My red rank teammates ( if I can even find one thanks to the new matchmaking) still play like potatos most of the time. Nothing more enjoyable than running the killer around for like 3 minutes and my teammates doing one gen, then leaving me on the hook.
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Pointless, if people wanted to they could just use Discord or other applications on their phones. I don't even know if devs can put restrictions like this in place on console.
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Well, you can wish all you want but I don't see it happening ever.
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"Looking into it" and how long were they "looking into" Freddy before reworking him... things take time man they come up with an idea they test it sometimes it doesnt work back to square 1
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