Legion is still fun. Change my Mind.
So when i first heard about the legion changes i was a little skeptical. Just like everyone else i thought he would be a almost useless killer, mind you i played a ton of legion before the changes to him and the deep wound status effect.
Recently, i have started to pick the legion back up and man i gotta tell you they are a lot of fun! i dont understand why so many people think he was gutted, if someone could explain to me why people think this that would be nice. The only thing i do not like about the change is that you cannot use perks like sloppy or stbfl in his frenzy mode but i do understand why the devs made the change!
My go to build for Legion is: Pop, corrupt, surge, and thrilling tremors.
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Legion is insanly fun.chaining hits is so satisfying
And once every one is injured you only need to outplay them once to down them
My favorite killer by far
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If you can't do with the Legion - or any other character - what you could do with the character before, he is gutted.
No matter what this means for the character. When you cut down half of a bread, it is gutted. No matter if you have gutted the side with tasty things on it, or the empty side with nothing on it.
What me matters. I miss the old Legion. For me is the new Legion nothing more as a fast moving m1 killer.
I still like to play the Legion when I play dbd, but more because of my memories with the old Legion as because how the Legion plays today and because of their story.
Edit: I am happy to hear that there are still people out there that can remember. Even if we seem not to have the same opinion.
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Ah yes, eating a Decisive Strike for using a power that does absolutely nothing if the Survivors know how to survive while injured is so fun. God I love Legion.
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what?
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Legion is not fun to go against when your teammates feel the need to self care against him
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they mean that his stun after frenzy is the equivalent to a ds stun, which it really is tbh
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I wouldnt say it's that bad.
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Satisfaction of multi-hitting survivors with Legion vs hearing the clic of a trapped survivor with Trapper vs Landing a sniper axe throw with Huntress vs getting to T3 with Myers by stalk 3 guys on the same gen.
Point made.
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Still boring as hell to go against
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DS stun: Five seconds, with the Survivor only being given the opportunity to actually run away for around four seconds
Frenzy fatigue: Four seconds, during which the Survivor has full time to run away, also during which you get a vignette so bad that some people can’t play Legion without Shadowborn
On second thought, you’re right. I’d rather get hit with Decisive Strike than deal with Legion’s post-Frenzy fatigue.
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You can still move around during the fatigue (though extremely slow) while Dstrike you cant
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side note I love your name!
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I honestly don't get it why bhvr has implemented this and other stuns and still let's them in.
The changes on dw and the tr have made those stuns unnecessary, imo.
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Even if the difference between standing still and moving in fatigue weren’t totally negligible, it still doesn’t really make up for the considerably unpleasant visual stimuli induced by fatigue and the fact you get the longest base fatigue in the entire game for using a power that does nothing more than injure Survivors in my opinion.
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They can be fun, but he could be much more fun and actually decent to play. And Old Legion was way more fun, in my opinion. Yes, they were broken, but the fun part didn’t come from that, but from other aspects that the devs nerfed for no reason.
Right now, they just did the bare minimum necessary to fix them, but they could do much more: Speed boost when chaining hits, reasonable cooldowns, basic hits not taking half of your power…
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Any Killer is fun vs. chilled Survivors.
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Good survivors can loop you for 3 gens even if they are a one shot. They fall short in high ranks because of this, im a legion main i would know, i have been switching to spirit alot more. But a ton of people are posting about legion, buff soon i hope!
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Glad that you like legion.
I mean there are people in the world who pay other in order to lick their boots. Everybody enjoys diffrent stuff i guess.
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Then if the survivors are injured don't use your power? Then at that point everyone is a 1 shot down.
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A) A Killer who has no power when people are injured is fun?
B) Then just loop???
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Feeling in control of when people are injured is very fun. When they are injured you know the power has done it's job. It's also fun getting them injured because getting chain hits is satisfying AF.
Chases are shorter because everyone is injured, however it doesn't make him a good killer. similarly a fun killer is completely separate to a viable killer.
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I don’t feel in control when Survivors are injured. If anything, I feel more disadvantaged because Perks like Dead Hard, the Spine Chill-Resilience combo, and Adrenawin can honestly make Survivors even harder to chase while they’re injured.
Sure, it feels satisfying to get chain hits, but what with how basic and simple the counterplay to a Frenzying Legion is, how often does that happen? You only move 30% faster than a running Survivor; as long as they split up, what’s usually going to happen is you Frenzy someone, spend ten seconds slowly catching up to a red blip in the distance, and then get hit with a headache-inducing Decisive Strike stun after which your power goes on the second-longest cooldown in the entire game. If anything, it’s the opposite of satisfying. It’s frustrating.
Also, once your power has “done its job” (assuming the Survivors are potatoes enough to let a power like Feral Frenzy do its job), then what? You’re a completely basic M1 Killer with literally no power, and if you use your power, you get punished. So you can get 1 or 2 chains at the beginning of the game, then you’re a Trapper without his traps? How is that in any way fun?
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Honestly sounds more like a you problem.
It happens every match that you can chain hits and i'm sorry but if you have trouble hitting a survivor even once then you just need to get better at chases
Legion satisfaction comes from injuring really fast and then only needing to outplay the survivors once to down them.
It's not unusual against a good Legion that has everybody injured that suddenly every 30 seconds someone goes down and gives him a pop goes the weasel
If your a killer that needs a power to hit survivors and let's themself be looped for 3 gens if they don't then yes i can believe you that you don't think legion is fun
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Where can I find these potato survivors you consistently go up against, that let you chain multiple hits (again, consistently) with ease? Rank 20?
Also, what power? Legion has a power? I thought his power was called Thanatophobia /s.
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Exactly the reason as to why Legion is my least favourite killer in the game to face.
They're repetitive as hell and my teammates are always awful against them
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I was likely better at downing Survivors as 110 Legion without using Frenzy than you are as 115 Legion. Try again.
Also, if you're so convinced Legion is great at chaining hits, here's some numbers: At a rate of 1.2 meters per second (the speed at which a Legion in Feral Frenzy catches up to a running Survivor), a 10-second Frenzy means that in order to outpace a Frenzying Legion and totally nullify his ability to chain a hit, you only need to be 12 meters away.
12 meters. Three-eights of the Legion's base Terror Radius.
Wow, so good.
And with double duration addons, it goes up to 16.8 meters. Barely more than four-eights or one-half of the Legion's Terror Radius. That's with his best Frenzy addons. His BEST. If you exceed 16.8 meters of distance from the Legion at any given point, there is no way his Frenzy can touch you unless you sit still.
God, Legion is so good.
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I think you exaggerating here a bit. That's ok in the heat of a discussion, but if you remember your matches, I bet, you will remember how you often had survivors encounter that were to far away for chain hits and/or had already start to heal themselfs while you were running off to some other survivor at the opposite part of the map.
The Legion is now so good, how a m1 killer in dbd can be.
That is enough for the average survivor, but if you ever met good survivors...
Let us be honest... Nobody of us has a 100% kill rate and if you think that you lost every match just because you are bad, then you are lying to yourself.
Of course, we lose some matches because we have make in the one or other match the wrong decision or were to bad, but in every game were we have lose!?
Comon... That can nobody believe...
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I find legion fun and relaxing to play tbh. Even with their changes recently they're still absolute trashpiles of killers but there's something about playing bad killers like Legion and Wraith that I like except clown.
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Bold statements for never seeing me play shrug
if your that amazing at chases then i don't see the problem
You don't need to like Legion. I'm not forcing you. But i know me and multiple others do just fine with them
And those numbers are fancy and all but that doesn't change that me and multiple others are able to chain hits just fine
If you don't like Legion that's fine. But realise that you being bad at a killer doesn't always have to be the killer. I suck with nurse and huntress too. I'm not going around dissing them
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Frankly, I don't need to see you play if you unironically hold the opinion that Legion is, in fact,a good Killer with a useful power.
And the numbers are raw math of just how easy it is to master the basic counterplay to Legion's basic power; if you get hits with Frenzy, it's not because you're good. It's because the Survivors are bad.
I used to only ever play Legion until the Ghost Face came out, including when he was 110. I also refused to use Frenzy to down Survivors when Legion was 110 because I felt it was cheap and broken. And despite being a 110 M1 Killer, I still found old Legion more fun and more viable than this absolute heap of trash we have today. I can say without a shred of doubt that if there's any Killer I'm good at, it's Legion. That doesn't change the fact that he's a piece of #########.
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If i notice survivors that are to far away i cancel my frenzy early and get it back before i reach them
I am the kind of person that will sooner look at myself if i lose rather then the game so you might have a point there
Note that i'm not saying the Legion is the next nurse or anything
The Legion being as good as a m1 killer can be is a statement i can get behind
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You can think their bad, that's fine
I think they are very much playable and if you play them right you have the ability to win against most teams
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You are entitled to your opinion, but basic math and the W key on my keyboard would love to have a word with you.
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I main Legion, so I do not want to change your mind
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I do agree that they are very reliant on their duration addons. Playing without them really limits your chain hits ability
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And even then the duration addons do quite little.
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When people say Legion isn't fun, they mean playing against him. His power sucks the joy out of every game.
You might be having fun, but nobody else is.
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You know what i miss
The addons that increased your speed in FF. Those were amazingly fun
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And now they do, what? Increase your Killer Instinct range? An effect that is literally useless because the default KI range reaches over twice as far than your Frenzy can reliably chain if the Survivor runs away? Yeah, I miss those too. Fun fact, Legion is currently the only Killer in the game with a sprint-type power and no addons to increase the sprint’s movement speed.
Billy and Bubba have the engravings, and Bubba also has chili. Wraith has Windstorm 2.0. Spirit has the various shoes and the mother-daughter ring. Oni has his Dash movement speed addons.
Even the Huntress, the Plague, the Ghost Face, and the Shape, despite not having sprint-type powers, have addons that at least mitigate the slowdown they receive while charging or holding their power. Even Demogorgon has addons that make him teleport faster and even a brown addon that increases his movement speed while charging Shred from slower than a running Survivor to faster than one.
What does Legion have? Jack diddly squat. Why?
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Oh, and those numbers aren't even considering that when survivors loop, they increase the effective distance between the killer and themselves, as killers have a slower rate of acceleration around corners than survivors, forcing the killer to be moving slower than the survivor for all turning portions of the loop in question. So, Legion must be even closer to the survivor (starting off) than you mentioned to be able to score a hit.
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Let’s not forget exhaustion Perks or crappy map design forcing you to take a longer path to the Survivor than as the crow flies. Those are also factors for sure.
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To be fair those numbers also don't include that the timer gets paused while you vault but you still makes distance
Yeah those killer instinct increases do more harm then good
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While the killer vaults, the survivor is also gaining distance from the vault/on the next loop to run down Frenzy's duration. The pause doesn't do much to help the killer.
Legion's power is a map traversal ability. He's an M1 killer with slightly better mobility than a trapless Trapper.
That's a part of/consideration in looping, am already accounting for that.
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I also think it’s really silly that hitting a Survivor with Deep Wound in Frenzy actually hurts you by draining your gauge and giving them a speed boost. I don’t think it should drain the timer seeing as how that’s broken (though granted, in Frenzy’s current state it would be at least ten times faster to just M1, but still), but if you’re going to give us the option to do it, it should at least do something. Increase the mend time, or reduce the fatigue, or SOMETHING. It’s absolutely ridiculous that hitting a Survivor punishes you.
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Legion got alot better with the oni chapter changes. It sucks that perks dont apply on FF but the faster vault and run helped Legion ALOT and since then Legion is WAY more fun now honestly. It doenst feel punishing to vault anymore, and the slow running from the huge nerf was just dumb and felt really bad and sluggish.
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It’s not even a map traversal ability, because that implies you can use it to get around the map quicker, regardless of its ability to “chase” Survivors, and the fatigue literally prevents you from doing that. It’s actually faster to just walk.
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You seem to have not played Legion that much so ill explain how to get hits in frenzy. When you hit a survivor in the centre of the map and you see another near the edges, you travel towards them in an efficient path, leaving no room for the survivors to go. A good legion is uncounterable in this situation.
That is the most efficient way of doing it, which completely counters that "only 12m" argument (which i know iv'e made in the past) as they need to run at a 90 degree angle from you, not directly away. You also forgot to add the lunge distance that gets you more distance.
Yea of course if you frenzy towards the centre of the map they are gonna start running early but then you just go back to the survivor you hit. By the time you downed them (cos its only 1 hit) your ability will be back and you frenzy the one you found earlier and the cycle repeats.
The only time this doesn't apply is when the map is massive, like red forest, however its borderline impossible for like 90% of killers to win on that map against an efficient team.
Also sometimes survivors just naturally group up, you cannot tell me that there is a team that doesn't come within like a 20m radius of each other like, ever in a match, it just doesn't happen.
Once again ill say this: I don't think the Legion is good, but he is fun and not as bad as people make him out to be.
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Even the smallest maps are large enough to render this playstyle useless. If they’re actually so close to the edges of the map that they can’t run anywhere and you’re in the center, then they’re without a doubt going to be further than 32 meters from you and thus your Killer Instinct won’t proc, forcing you to waste your power looking for them instead of going to them. What if you guess wrong and go to the side of the map where they aren’t? What if they’re spread out over the entirety of the map, meaning that you’d have to cross the ENTIRE map once you hit one to go hit another? And even then, you know what the counter to this is? Not being on the edge of the map like an absolute dingus. The rule of “don’t corner yourself” applies to every Killer and Legion’s power does little to force Survivors into that corner when holding W is such an effective strategy against him. Even on a map like Chapel, the Goldilocks zone of “too far to be Frenzied, too close to be cornered” is hardly difficult to get to.
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Those rank 20 survivors you go against who don't stay within a stone's throw of a loop, or go near map boundary at all (they are allowing themselves to be cornered. Don't think for a second that you're doing the cornering), and don't have an Exhaustion perk to easily evade your Frenzy, must be nice to go against.
Survivors grouping up is a hallmark of inefficient, inexperienced play. Separating and working on different generators is the most efficient playstyle - grouping up for any reason is foolhardy at best. Even if it is to heal, it is inefficient.
If 2 survivors are injured and use Self-Care, they finish healing in 32 seconds. If 2 survivors are injured and heal each other, they finish healing in 32 seconds. If 4 survivors are injured and Self-Care, they finish healing in 32 seconds. If 4 survivors heal each other, they finish healing in 48-64 seconds. And survivors can not be forced to flee the same area at the same time by one killer, if they are already healing themselves in separate areas.
This is why all co-operative actions are wastes of time, for survivors. If you find survivors bunching up for any reason (apart from unhooking), it is because they do not understand this. So, rank 20s.
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He would be a lot more fun without that freaking feeled 2h stun after frenzy.
Not enough that they made a stun after missed frenzy hits - something that robbed from us the stabby stabby feeling while we just hitting the air for fun -, the stun after frenzy is just too long.
I also don't understand how someone by bhvr could have come up with this idea. It should be known that players hate in general situations where they can't move and/or see something.
In wow as example I hate cc's also (that also can be stuns, but not necessary) and the only reason why everybody can life with it there is, because every class has there so many cc's that you can play ping pong there with those abilities.
Edit: For balance and fun reasons I would like to see the stun after frenzy reduced at -1 or 2 seconds.
Just for fun reasons the stun after a missed hit should go.
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