Ruin allowed Killers to play fair..
Many killers such as myself played relatively fair and fun in many games against survivors because ruin gave me more time. Time is precious in this game.. even if ruin lasted for 1-2 minutes, that was enough to give me a chance to win.
With a chance to win, I was aware of being relatively fair to the survivors I was against. If someone got ######### over by a teammate, or coincidentally got hooked twice in a row... I would give them a chance to play for longer (E.G avoid hooking them for a third time for a few minutes) as I know it is frustrating to be killed and removed from the game so quickly.
In fact, this is why I dislike the idea of having to tunnel or camp someone. I know it isn't fun, even if it is one of the more effective strategies for a killer. But now? With ruin gone, I do not have a chance to win against optimal survivors if I'm not using the best killers in the game. I love playing the weaker killers, such as Bubba, Plague, Demogorgon & Wraith because of their play style. Ruin allowed me to play these killers despite them being weak, yet now with the nerf... it isn't possible.
If I'm playing against optimal survivors, then I have no choice but to resort to camping and tunnelling in some circumstances.
So yeah... expect more killers caring less about the survivor experience.. =/
Comments
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The thing is most of the things in this game that are meant to help against the things a killer may do, like camping or tunneling and having DS/BT, simply punish good killers who play fairly. The slower gens get completed the more likely a killer is to play fairly, and Ruin did that. Maybe it's just becoming more and more unreasonable for good killers who play fair and have fun by trying to go for 12 hooks to have that mentality.
I honestly don't buy the devs opinion on nerfing Ruin as being anything other than something for newer players while not caring about higher ranks, because now 80% of matches will simply be Corrupt Intervention, and I guarantee you they won't touch that, nor will they touch map sizes or do anything else.
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Wraith is actually not that weak. Just use the hit-and-run build: Corrupt Intervention, Sloppy Butcher, Thanataphobia, and Nurse's Calling with a windstorm and a clapper add-on.
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I'm super excited to spend the first two minutes of every match looking for survivors who are just crouching in some random corner, waiting for CI to wear off.
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But yeah, I run Myers with M&A, Dead Rabbit, and Infectious Fright but I don't usually use it unless I'm losing. Looks like I'm gonna have to slug more often now.
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A lot of killers who didn't use ruin often resorted to slugging if they couldn't win and tend to proxy camp hooked survivors.
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yep, i feel that, i have never hooked the same person twice in a row but this change will force that, even more so on less viable killers like myers which is a shame, i loved random killer wheel but ruin helped some killers just get started. oh well the game will be dead because the more casual killers will quit, survivor lobby times will be too long so survivors will also quit and the game will die out. people forget the killer is also a player wanting fun, and a casual killer could never hooks multiple survivors at my skill so they will quit at certain ranks. corrupt will help for sure but its not the same for slower, less powerful killers... probably nerf corrupt too because it will give you min bronze in gen protection alone
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Amen.
You basically described what i am going through..I can't mess around anymore, since games without ruin are going very fast.
I can still get kills, but not the way i did before. More focus, more tryhard, less fun for survivors.
Or i just mess around same way i did with knowing i won't kill anyone before gens are done (probably 5 minutes).
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This whole concept of playing for someone else's fun has gotten out of hand. I can't fathom how this mindset of ignoring chances to win or give yourself an advantage because your opponents might not like it became so prevalent in the community. I’ve often thought it would actually be healthier for the game if people stopped expecting their opponents to consider how they feel, which just leads to being upset when they don’t.
I understand, it sucks when survivors come in on comms with toolboxes and perks that let them finish gens at light speed. It sucks when a killer picks you out of everyone and chases you down all game and takes you out in less time than it takes to heat up a Hot Pocket. It’s that feeling of being totally defenseless in that situation. In both situations there isn’t much you can do to stop what’s happening. It leads to feeling mad at the people that did it to you and at the people in charge of the game for letting it be possible. But when you really think about it from an overall view, it kind of has to be this way for now. Making it impossible for a killer to camp or tunnel when they need to would allow SWF groups to transcend godhood, and adding too many nerfs to gen repair speed and the items and perks that affect them would give solo survivors the same chances of surviving a match as a hex totem.
For now all we can do is play the game in the way that works best for us, stop expecting other people to play for our fun, and hope the devs will make changes that bring a better balance to the game so survivors aren’t as interested in “genrushing” and killers to feel compelled to camp and tunnel for kills.
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If ruin could give weak killers a chance, imagine what it could do for strong killers. Once ruin is gone kill rates will be more accurate.
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You should try surviellance instead of Thana at least once, easier to track injured survivors working on gens. 😉
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Thana is for synergy with Nurse's. It's easier to find survivors on gens if they take longer.
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Not to rain on your parade or anything, but CI isn't the perk your looking for as a replacement for Ruin in TrU3Ta1ent's Anti Heal/Slow Down Build. Just due to how CI functions it has early game and late game applications, but Wraith can't get the benefits of it from that build. You'll be able to use the early application no issues though unless you can get about 3 hooks or someone on death hook or dead before CI is deactivated it wont function the way you need it.
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It's not Wraith that's strong. It's the build. That same build can apply to almost any killer.
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Ruin also runs out late game. CI functions just the same.
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Ruin also allowed Killers to get away with unfun strategies like camping and tunneling more easily. Ruin just made both more effective. Combine that with NOED because why not, right?
Glad this perk is dead, now we just need them to slightly adjust genspeed and maybe rework toolboxes as compensation.
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It only really works on stealth killers, and Wraith has high mobility along with his stealth.
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I couldn't agree with you more! Even though I ran Dying Light as well. If Ruin was cleansed within 10 seconds of the match, I had to play like a ######### and slug so I could build pressure. If I got maybe 1 or 2 hook while ruin was up, I was completely fine with ruin being gone
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To the OP - don't play fair. It's not up to you to facilitate survivors fun. They have all the tools at their disposal to make their own fun.
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Yes if you play with only 3 perks you have to try hard to win.
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I played with 2 perks really. Dying Light and BBQ. I have a heavy addiction to shadowborn and it has literally affected me mentally when I play killer.
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Lmao I have been avoiding shadowborn for that exact reason.
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It started back when I was on console and a Wraith main, used wraith for a month straight and was constantly running Shadowborn. Than I picked up Nurse and was told to use shadowborn on her and so I did. Got my PC tried playing killer without Shadowborn and ended up getting motion sickness without using the perk. One of these days imma have to put in the effort to get unaddicted. to that perk
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No they function the same at base appearance, but functional are very different perks for different reasons. CI has a strong end game, early game, and good stall while you build time. While Ruin has a constant pressure until cleansed, but has good value yet only a few bonuses to it.
If your using CI for solely the 2 mintues you may as well run a different perk.
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So you're saying CI is better than Ruin? Thanks, I guess.
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Geez this post... Killer players playing "relatively fair"... or unfair... cause of a perk.... ok.
So basically no different than it is now.
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Depending on how you use it yes it can be better then Ruin, but it also functions differently for each killer. It also depends how you tend to use it.
Some Killers can take advantage of it's full effects while most only can take advantage of the initial 2 minute gen protections. It also depends on how or even if your able to comprehend how to use it's late game potential a lot of people tend to give it up without even thinking of it.
Also if you keep replying with literally one sentence every time. Don't bother replying I come to the forums to debate, learn new things, and pass on what I know. I dont need some person acting like kid who thinks he knows everything to reply with a one liner and not even be constructive to a conversation.
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I already knew about what you were trying to explain to me. I have no reason to give your comment any thoughtful construction if there is nothing else to be said. Once again, thanks.
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Ruin was never a good perk for this purpose. High ranks didnt even bother with Ruin, played through it or cleansed it after some seconds, cause you know the totem spots. Ruin was just another illusion of time stalling killers used to justify some behaviour.
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You know what's not fair? Not being able to work through Ruin because of server lag. It was a flawed perk that was very dependent on connection.
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They were camping with Ruin anyways...next.
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You can’t balance around killers who play fair, unless killers are forced to play that way. Are we going to pretend that players who currently use Ruin, play the stronger killers, and tunnel/camp don’t exist?! You could give killers all the time in the world and guess what...that playstyle would still be widespread. Many players will always take the easiest path to victory no matter what. Gens could take 2 f’n minutes and killers who tunnel/camp now would STILL play that way. That’s what many fail to understand. The stance of “Im not going to play “relatively fair” anymore really means nothing, because tons of killers already don’t. That’s why survivors feel forced to bring DS and BT. While playing in a fair way it’s definitely very appreciated by survivors, so many don’t that it’s not expected. Its business as usual, do what you want cause survivors are already expecting the worst. The threats don’t change anything honestly.
Post edited by Karl_Childers on1 -
We will see an increase in camping, tunneling, moris, especially with killers that aren't Nurse/Spirit/Hillbilly.
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You just need to accept that you're not as good at killer as you think you are and focus on getting better.
As a rank 1 killer, you run into this mythical optimal tryhard survivor team maybe 1 in 20 matches, you stomp the survivors in 15 of those 20 games, and then actually have a decent competitive game in the other 4. Killer choice doesn't really matter unless you get a bad map for like a Huntress.
Tunneling and camping aren't going to make you more successful and won't help you improve.
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Did it now?
Because I've met PLENTY of killers that had Ruin and did not play fair.
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No survivor that understands how to play the game is going to do this. They will run out and find other gens. Maybe a rank 20 will do this.
I agree with your points about skill.
However the "mythical optimal tryhard survivor team" is actually really common at red ranks on Xbox. This platform is made to play with friends, and the players at red ranks (as in the best players on the platform that have been red ranks for a long time, not the "new blood" red ranks that are showing up now that rank reset was changed) all know each other. We all watch each other stream, everyone knows everyone, there is drama. Some people are friends, some are enemies, some friends are enemies with friends. Some enemies are friends with enemies. It's literally high school LOL.
But yea, majority of these people play SWF almost exclusively. It's not as mythical as it might be on PC where most players are loners.
EDIT: I've been asking all my friends that play killer at red ranks and so far everyone has said "50% or more" are 3 or 4 man SWF. So literally every other game.
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From my experience a lot of killers camped and tunneled anyway and Ruin bought them more time to do it. It stopped the other survivors from using that time to rush gens.
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I don't agree with your point of view. I see Billy, Oni or Huntress players wipe out the squad in no time and they have no Ruin or any other HEX totem at all. Also many Nurse players don't run Ruin, and that's basically a very bad news, because it means that the killer is very confident in his skills, and Nurse still very... very strong. If the killer is good Ruin is a just waste of a perk slot, he just need to know how to stop loops (mind gaming) and put pressure with hooks. Period. Ruin is good for killers who count on time and not on their abilities.
I would have actually nerfed SWF more than Ruin, because SWF is the real cancer. I would actually take out SWF completely. Solo players is not a big deal for a killer.
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I've been saying this to people for a while. You are absolutely correct. Even with 3 minutes per gen some people would still proxy camp and tunnel. Increasing gen times would just buff that playstyle.
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Ruin gave killers more time on maps that are the size of Jupiter (Rotten Fields, Red Forest, Disturbed Ward, etc...). That is the only reason Ruin was needed for low map pressure killers.
Map sizes are a huge issue. The killers wastes half a generator just getting to one side of the map.
Ruin is not needed on maps the size of Coal Tower and Rancid Abattoir. Those maps are the perfect size and ALL maps should be between 132-156 square tiles. Ruin would need a change then, but now is just not the time when maps are the way they currently are.
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Exactly. I have no problem at all with giving killers who do not camp/tunnel/ (or slug even) additional time somehow. However, with that would have to come something else added that actually prevents the killer from doing those things (NOT perks!) So many seem to think killers would play by the honor system and just not do that stuff anymore, that’s complete nonsense. If you want the game balanced around “fair” killers, you have to force everyone to play that way. Simple as that.
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