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Long Survivor lobby Q ? Here is the reason why
Hello,
in my opinion the Devs are doing all for new players..... but what about the experience ones like us ? I´ve spend over 3500h+ of my life to play this game and i have seen alot. With the upcomming Hexruin change or Doc rework it will be not better. More and more killer´s stop playing or rolling survivors. The result: longer lobbytimes or broken matchmaking. The last week´s they are nerfing killers more and more and i feel DBD is more and more a survivor sided game. In history, i was wriding and giving alot of feedback for alot of stuff as i can, but the devs ignoring it and do what they want. What a slap in the face. What is with the upcomming Rankrework and why they do nothing about the gentimes ( hello 5 minute games, speccially on red ranks. They trolling and rushing you like a death ). I believe no one from the devs is playing on red ranks and they didn´t know how stressfull it is as killer. Hello DS, hello BT, Toolboxes with red genspeedadd ons, keys, keys and more keys. What i want to say is: They give survivors so many weapons but take stuff from killers...no more traps under hookz and stuff like that.
The new upcomming changes ? Good for new players, bad for exp players. I play both sides on red ranks and i know how ez it is as survivor. SWF feels like a cheatmode and solo is ez too because i have more and more infos. Aura reading perks are bullshit and not interesting. The sad story is: I must deal with it. That´s my personal answer.....
Sry for my bad english grammatic but one last thing: Survivor is EZ and i hope BHVR realize that finally.
Comments
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It is due to Red-ranked killers (and some survivors) intentionally demoting themselves via AFKing to stomp lower-skilled players - causing the matchmaking to force itself to put greens and yellows in a Red-ranked game.
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matchmaking is one story...the rest another. You can believe me they don´t listen what they do. We will see what happend in future but i swear it will not better with the qtimes.
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You've posted this unfounded, silly jargon in another thread now, word for word. So I'll post this here again, because there's more evidence to back my version of it up than yours:
Uhhh..no? It's actually more like red rank killers not existing on the scale that they used to. Cause they aren't playing. Rank, especially on the survivor side, is NOT an indication of skill. It's basically a participation trophy for how easy it is to pip as a survivor.
Besides - if you've ever been to red ranks as killer (and judging by your post you have a long way to go before you get there and understand), especially lately, you'd know there's so many potato survivors at red rank because of how rank reset works now that deranking to face potato survivors is ridiculous.
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This happened pre these changes and coincide with the launch of dedicated servers and the see change to match making.
The swf change alone creates and use as one red rank with 3 yellow ranked friends take the spot of 3 true red rank players. Now multiply that by even 100 and its 100 more killers needed.
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This is nonsense.
Post edited by Gcarrara on10 -
It's actually a variety of things addings up:
- Ranking system pushing survivors higher rank than they should be
- The killer nerfs
- The new rank reset system
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My queues have gotten better, if still not the same time, over the last month, last month they felt quite a bit longer.
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I LOVE MY RUIN CHANGED NOW THE GAME IS GONNA DIE THREADS!
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Hilarious!
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Good job being mean.
Unfortunately, you're wrong. I depip as killer all the time. I don't want to play against toxic sweaty try hards every match and I don't want to waste 1k hours of my life....let alone 3.5k hours.... To become a sweaty try hard myself. Especially since I'm 10 achievements away from finishing this game.
Lately, another reason I depip is to enhance the face camp problem that this forum refuses to accept and to prove a point. Only response is to call the new players potatoes which probably turns them away from the game, which doesn't help the wait times. I wouldn't want to grind 14k points/match when successfully counter playing a potato strategy.
I believe OP is right that Qs take longer closer you get to red rank as a survivor and as the killer, green ranks put you into red ranks. I think the real problem is the toxicity of this community towards killers. If a killer is toxic towards survivors, it's just one person being toxic. If survivors are toxic to killers, that's 4x more to deal with. And regardless, survivors are more likely to be toxic than killers anyway.
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Saying something is unfounded and silly isn't mean; and you of all people don't get to call people out for being mean after the things you've said to people for simply disagreeing with you.
There's no logic to back your claims up. On the other hand, there is to back mine up. So, there's that. Have a good one, bud.
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That wasnt the mean part I was referring too.
And I stand by my previous comments because they weren't because of disagreements rather the sheer fact theu were ignoring my argument altogether. My argument dealt with the math, their response dealt with strats, that's not disagreeing that's disregarding.
Also, you being held up on the first line is just further evidence to the blantent disregard to the whole arguement. I just proved you wrong by admitting to intentionally deranking which is one of OPs arguement.
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Nice bait
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Red rank players still exist as much as they used to, at least for killer side.
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And you base this on...? You've admitted in previous threads you haven't been to red rank as killer. So how would you know? I notice you tend to interject a lot of one-liner things like these and never back them up. So back them up, bud.
I base my claims on the fact that red rank killers actually aren't playing and are quitting/taking breaks, as well as the fact that red rank survivors are being matched with yellow and green rank killers. What do you have as a base? Go ahead. I'll wait.
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How can red rank killers see how many red rank killers there are?
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Ahem:
And you base this on...? You've admitted in previous threads you haven't been to red rank as killer. So how would you know? I notice you tend to interject a lot of one-liner things like these and never back them up. So back them up, bud.
I base my claims on the fact that red rank killers actually aren't playing and are quitting/taking breaks, as well as the fact that red rank survivors are being matched with yellow and green rank killers. What do you have as a base? Go ahead. I'll wait.
Any time now. I'm not falling for your one-liner bait posts like others do. o/ <3
If you want a discussion with me, you need to provide logic. I will ignore it until you post any logical backing. :) I don't engage into debates with people who just rely on "well i think this, I have no base but I think this".
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Lmao. Do you really think I'm just spouting nonsense? I'm a consistent rank 1 survivor and I face red rank killers just over 50% of the time. If they all left why am I facing them?
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So you have no basis. Thought so. Moving on.
(I never said they all left, but nice attempt).
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My basis is no weaker than yours. I guess we'll just have to agree that you're attacking me and dehumanizing me because you disagree. How is my basis weaker?
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I don't think attacking means what you think it means. I haven't vilified or chastised you in the least. I merely said I've seen you do this before (which is observable in your post history), and that I refuse to engage any further based on your history of posting single sentence things without logical basis just to start an argument. This is not an attack. Please don't accuse me of things I haven't done. Thanks.
I have two pieces of logic on my side. Two pieces that can be observed by the majority of the player base. Killers saying they are quitting/taking a hiatus, and red ranks being put with yellow rank killers.
All you're saying is "No, its not true cause i get red rank killers". Something observable only by you. Which is weak as a point of argument.
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I doubt the usual couple of immature people on the forums is the majority of the killer player base. Red ranks being put with yellow/green ranks doesn't directly equate to less red rank killers. Listen to what all people have to say, because every opinion is valuable even if it's misinformed. You never know, maybe you can convince someone to switch sides on a topic.
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Actually not really bait. Over I'd say the last few weeks my survivor queue at rank 5 takes about the same it did in the beginning of December ... can take 3 to 5 minutes. However the queue times for Killer actually got better, rank 16. They used to be over 10 minutes.. but there's been a few nights where they are instant or only a couple of minutes.
Not saying the matching has been perfect but it hasn't been great either.
The OPs post is basically about the ruin change and how it is making the queues longer, since there must be allot of killer quitting.
But to be honest I'm not seeing it, and I'm near Toronto.
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I believe it actually has to do with the SWF change. OhTofu made a great video on it.
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That was when the queue took their first big dump... When the change was set to take the highest ranking survivor in the SWF lobby. That was noticeable right when that change went live. Queues doubled and were worse the lower the rank you were, as killer. Then high ranking survivor queues got long cause there wasn't enough killers now.
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The Devs have loosened the Match Making restrictions.. thats why we see so many mis matched lobbies now.. but at least we aren't waiting over 10 minutes for a killer lobby at rank 16... or over 20 minutes at rank 20.
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The queues for survivor in the high ranks are still feeling the shortage of the killers cause of SWF.
SWF is has been ruining match making since the beginning cause where do you put them in the match making when a rank 2 groups up with their rank 18 friend.
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You certainly made it hard to tell, considering how mean-spirited your original post was, but if you actually want to have a discussion then I'm all for it. There have been posts from survivors complaining about long queue times already, and 3 to 5 minutes is pretty long considering killer queues from rank 10 and below are nearly instant (though you'll almost always be matched with red rank survivors once you hit green ranks).
I believe the problem is not just that killer is becoming less popular, but mainly that both the ranking system and the matchmaking is broken, which causes the whole thing to be extremely broken overall. It's too easy to rank up as Survivor. You can pretty much run whatever perks you want and still do well. I literally healed just one survivor in a game today and I got iridescent benevolence that game. This creates too many rank 1 potatoes, meaning not only frustration from experienced survivors but also not enough killers for all of these red rank survivors.
The devs should prioritize the matchmaking issues before making balance changes because you're not going to get good data with rainbow lobbies. New survivors shouldn't be matched up with killers who have Ruin, except hags, because by the time they level hag to 35 and get that perk on another killer they shouldn't be rank 20 anymore.
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If the queues were still like they were in the beginning of December... I'd be the first one here crapping on the forums about it, since I've been doing it in the past since the new Match Making system came in, which replaced the Match Making that was giving me instant queues for both sides not matter what rank I was.
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The issue as I see it is Killer became too popular. You could see it when special events were started and players all switched to killer since getting more BP during those events was easier than grinding it out on survivor.
Killer side actually has gotten way better over the last year or so. I never touched killer for the first 2 years cause of all the crap that went along with it.
That is why I see changes such as Ruin only a good thing. Since it might return some players to the Survivor side.. and again removes BS from the game and makes it overall more enjoyable.
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Match Making will never be fixed because of SWF.
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Well as for potato survivors in the high ranks. Survivor has to be easy to rank up. They had made it harder to rank up as survivor and that led to long queue times for red rank killers. Survivors are expected to die... Make it tough for them, why bother wasting the time on it.
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If Killer was more popular, wouldn't that mean longer queues for killer and shorter queues for survivors?
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In comparison to years ago... yes. It is more noticeable when there is special events, their queue times increase quite a bit.
You don't usually see a rush of people playing PTB to play the latest survivor as you do the latest killer. The whole game is about the killers, not the survivors, and I think the more licensed killers have brought in more people playing those killers and killer in general.
I think now what we see is a match making system which isn't functioning as intended, so it is hard to get a feel on what is actually going on.
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There is too much flux in players at the moment with people being upset about certain aspects.. people switching sides due to crappy queue times on both sides.
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How can you fix matchmaking when even ranking is flawed? this game lul
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I'm on your side but be careful. trolling you until you trip and try to get you banned is "legitimate strategies" for some.
I'm not seeing anyone cite any sources but their own personal experiences so why don't we all stop acting like we are 5 star debaters here
Post edited by Psypho_Diaz on3 -
True
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Right? lol
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It's their game and they take constructive input but I'm sure their biggest concern is keeping new players. They have all the statistics and know way more than you ever could.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
That part at the end about toxicity is completely wrong. 1 killer being toxic is 1 person, but 1 survivor being toxic is 1 person as well, not 4. If all 4 of them are toxic, then that is 4 seperate people being toxic, it has nothing to do with 4 vs 1. Most teams only have 1 or 2 toxic people on them. If a killer is doing poorly, and they know they can get away with it, some people will start to be more toxic, but all 4 survivors usually don't start toxic. And if you are deranking and facecamping to prove a point, then you are being toxic. Also, survivors will only be "more toxic" because they can. For a survivor, they can teabag and flashlight click to be toxic, but if a killer wants to be toxic, they have to tunnel or camp and basically throw their game away, while survivors can do it mid game, so killers can't be as toxic, without losing.
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Yeah, I've been around since Myers was released. I've seen nerfs go both ways for a bit, and then it slowly started to be just killers getting nerfs. Catering to newer players doesn't represent the challenge of games. In games you should be forced to learn the more complex aspects of the game. In this case the lunge range, identifying killers and knowing their power to adapt accordingly, 360s, pallet loops and staying in the loop for as long as possible, etc. etc. Now it's just "hey who's the killer, thanks to the automaton of nerfs they got we good" your only chances are gonna be using a original killer like trapper or Billy boy or even fking plague. (And yes I'm aware she was released not long ago) oh and the survivor main community doesn't know how to play killer, think they know how to play killer, or despise killers to the point where they have an unrelenting hate for no reason.
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You are right about majority of the time only 1-2 people out of a group are toxic. And most of the time it's the higher rank ones. But that is still more than one person being toxic at a time. There are never 2 killers at a time being toxic while there can be anywhere from 1 - 4 survivors at a time and I know cause I've been on both sides of a whole swf squad getting angry.
And yea I am, and my point is that facecamping should have a severe BPS penalty. Until then I'm going to enjoy easy, stressless 20k+ BPS (40k+ with BBQ) matches. The new people can either have a ruined match or if they play correctly have a longer grind at leveling up characters by me preventing them from gaining altruistic and boldness points. Essentially capping their matches at half the potential earnings. Either way, "I was proven wrong" (laughs maniacly) that this is legitimate by the (clears throat) "professionals" in the forum.
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It's not a lack of any side. I don't know why people just assume this because they want to act like killer players are extremely oppressed and now are quitting when that isn't the case whatsoever. Its solely because of the matchmaking changes. Low ranks are experiencing the exact same problem, but in reverse. Killer queues take years to get.
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Tofu has zero background in video games other than playing them. He admits to barely having a high school education and prior to streaming, worked in a warehouse stocking shelves so he could pay for his move to Canada and stream full time living with his significant other. I'm a Tofu fan, but playing a game doesn't make you an expert on it's backend or netcode. No offense to him of course - but he has zero qualifications other than having a verified badge on twitch, and a fog whisperer logo. Neither of those mean a damn thing. They don't magically make him know things. Saying any of that gives him any authority is like saying you learn how to run a restaurant by watching Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying he pulled that out of his backside, because it has no observable basis to back it up. What I said does, and is therefore (whether you like it or not as a tofu fan) more credible.
I do have experience with the Unreal Engine, but of course I'll admit that doesn't make me an expert either. However - if it was solely matchmaking that was the issue, survivor lobbies wouldn't be so painfully long. They are long because the matchmaking algorithm is doing it's job and looking for better suited killers closer to their level. The issue is, it's not finding them.
There's not many of them left compared to the number of survivors. This is why sometimes you'll actually get a quick lobby as a survivor. There was a killer near your rank actually available. As it stands now, there simply aren't many red rank killers floating around. They've either switched to survivor due to imbalance, or have went to play Civilization for a while. The matchmaking is doing what it needs to be doing - it's looking, in stages, at different groups of levels. After a while, it opens up to high and higher levels until eventually a group of red and purple ranked survivors gets matched with a yellow/brown rank killer. Why do you think they wanted to hide the ranks in the post game lobby?
This is literally how they explained matchmaking working; and this is a far more logical explanation than that of a person who only has any credibility because he's a fog whisperer, and not because of actual knowledge.
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People still don't get it?
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Yesterday I had an almost 10min queue as survivor, once the match started, someone crashed or whatever and the game didn't start.
If I'm with the boyz, we won't find a match under 5mins, we're all rank 1-2, survivor queue is a pain and the matches are mostly easy.
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that´s the truth and i´m excited what the devs now doing or what they will change and do in the future. We will see....
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It's a 4:1 multiplayer game by default it's logical to assume that the que times for survivor's are going to be low and que times for killers are going to be high, but at the same time willing to provide for the fact that the reverse may be true at any given time.
However, when you start factoring in demographics, whether or not people play both, how many players actually stick to the game..
you really have an issue that only the devs themselves are weary of. As was rightly pointed out, we as the players do not have access to the statistics and other valuable information that actually explains this stuff, and even if the devs released it to us, it would probalby be useless informatoin anyway since we'd still be missing a lot of variables.
Needless to say, que times are not going to get higher, or lower than they already are, except for if the game loses a large chunk of it's poplatoin at once. That said, since we don't know the percentage of killers who play survivors or the percentage of survivor's who play killers, we can't rigthfully assume that x amount of killers leaving the game due to these changes is going to have such an impact on the game that the que times become 5 hours. For all we know, X amount of killers could play survivor so they are taking an equal amount of survivors out of the game with them, and y amount of survivors could play killer so they are taking an equal amount of survivors out with them..which one would assume would just balance the situation, but we can't calculate that can we? we don't have that information.
But let's say that every killer plays survivor, and every survivor plays killer, and that every player plays the game from 5pm to 10pm EST every day of every month of every year, and that there are 1 million players, 250k killers 750k survivors. this equals out to 1.25 million killers and 1.5 million survivors. IF HALF OF THE KILLER MAINS LEAVE THE GAME and half the survivor mains leave the game, then forgiving my attrocious math,
if you calculated all this and then divided the total amount by the 2 (the total roles in the game)
you would still have the same amount of active players playing your game..theoritcally.
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The toxicity thing is still pointless, because duh, 1 killer to 4 survivors more survivors can be toxic at a time. That doesn't mean that they are. It's like comparing bees to rats. Every rat could be evil and "toxic" (harmful to people) while most bees aren't, just wasps and such, and while there are way more bees, not all of them are aggressive. (Obviously not a perfect comparison, but the idea is that yes, with a larger population, the odds of more toxic people is increased, but without actually knowing the percent of each population being toxic, you can't make assumptions.) Also, if you play toxic, survivors will be more toxic towards you when they successfully beat a toxic player.
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It was a bad comparison. My basis is purely from my experiences. It's extremely rare to have the killer message after a game, while I've even received messages from survivors while I hid in the basement as wraith the whole time. I even play as survivor more, so the killer side has had a higher possiblity to be toxic.
To address the playing a face camping killer, it's not about getting toxic feedback from survivors. It's about limiting survivors points earnings. That was my problem to begin with. But since math is to hard to comprehend for people they equate it to something entirely different.
I'll say it again. To counter face camps, survivors stay on objectives and leave. 8k for obj and only 5k for surviving, 0k for altruistic and boldness. Great, a boring game of fix the gens and earning only 13k points. This is my issue.
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It is an issue with matchmaking. Tofu's background means literally nothing because his exact explanation coincides with the recent matchmaking changes. Matchmaking has been like this before, but for killers. Nobody was screaming that there was a shortage of survivors when killers had terrible lobby times. This has happened before, and now that it's happening to survivors, people want to make it seem like killers are leaving when it's just the matchmaking.
That's exactly why it's the opposite at low ranks. Because of the changes, the low ranks who are in SWF parties are being pulled up to higher ranks, leaving a shortage of low rank survivors for the killers to play against. The numbers are still the same, just distributed incorrectly. I'm also fairly certain the dev's themselves have said there are known issues with matchmaking as well.
In the end, the funniest part for me is that all of these killers telling people to "just adapt" crumble at the slightest thought of having to learn the game without a specific perk.
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Did i say anything about you being a toxic piece of trash asking you to explain why you are toxic? No. I just said that it's obvious you are going to run into more toxic survivors than killers because there are way more survivors than killers. So if 10% of survivors are toxic, and 20% of killers are toxic, there are still way more toxic people on the survivor side.
You added a huge piece onto your comment replying to mine when i didn't say anything about it. You want to be toxic, that's fine, nothing can or will be done about it, you aren't breaking any rules of the game.
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It's like with a job, no one wants the old smelly people around dragging everyone down, they want fresh young new faces who don't know all the bullcrap lol
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This makes no sense. If killer was more popular, killer wait times would be longer and survivor shorter. You said the opposite is happening. And if ruin pushes more people to survivor side, how will that help survivor que times?
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Dehumanizing? Really? Lol
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Queue times are all over the map... for example... 2 nights ago I got instant queues for killer at rank 17 then last night its take 3-5 minutes again...
So you can't really tell by queue times anymore. This was just a general feeling over the time I've played this game. Ruin change hasn't even happened yet, so nobody really know how it will affect queues..
I personally don't think it will... The handful of whiners who can't handle a perk change will be back to what they were doing before the change once they relax and realize it wasn't that big of a deal anyways.
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