The problem people have with Billy.
I think the biggest problem people have with billy is is extreme map pressure
Billy is the only killer that can zoom from one side of the map after hooking a survivor to the other sized to kick a gen and back to tunnel.
I expect this to be even stronger with the new ruin coming out.
(in no way am I calling for billy to be gutted I am just stating as to why I think some people have a problem with him so please dont storm my house with your torches and pick forks)
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To me, it seems more like "Ruin is finally gone. Time to complain about killers that have map pressure build in". Freddy has been a big subject of complaints too.
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such constructive feedback.
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He's not wrong, though.
It's an observable thing on these forums. Nurse was gutted, when all that needed work were her addons....Oni was nerfed literally days after he was released. Thankfully BHVR realized how shady that was, with the bait and switch garbage and are buffing him again. Ruin was complained about endlessly (nobody was talking about Billy or Freddy), and now it's being basically removed in it's current form. Now people have moved on to killers who can actually pressure generators.
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oni wasn't nerfed, devs stated his flick was not intentional . thankfully though they are changing it back . but no it wasnt a nerf, if anything they were just fixing him.
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What they did in December was a nerf. If it wasn't, why are they rebuffing him?
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Can we just make Frank's Mixtape actually mean something?
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as I stated before the devs stated prior to his release that his flick in the PTB was not intentional. so you cant really call it a "Nerf"when they specifically stated that it was not supposed to be in the game .
Either way I think we can both agree that the devs changing their minds and bringing some flick back is nice.
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No. sorry. legion mains cannot have fun .;)
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Then Billy keeps his map pressure, and Freddy gets insta noed if youre asleep >:(
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That is exactly what I think. He can just go from one side of the map to the other in seconds and has map pressure like no other killer and without a cooldown too.
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Didnt you make a thread about billy already? You too act as if all maps are not filled with obstacles inbetween, billy can not zip across the map the entire time. People who do struggle against billy are people who make lots of mistakes because that is what billy capitalizes on.
Stop spamming your issue and making 3-4 bad survivors into something survivors or people actually have a problem with.
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ha no. didnt know you were the forum police bud!
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your comment is very hypocritical considering how youve posted multiple discussions about hating on BHVRs idea of balancing to make the game more fun for survivors.
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"I expect this to be even stronger with the new ruin coming out."
No. No killer is going to be stronger after the Ruin change. Every killer will be considerably weaker. Billy will look stronger in comparison to the low mobility killers that are getting dumpstered.
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That’s a lot of it yeah.
The thing is no other kill has the mobility Billy has. Freddy needs to wait 45 seconds to teleport, Spirit can only make it so far before she runs out of juice and needs to go on a 15 second cooldown. Wraith simply doesn’t move anywhere near as fast and then he’s limited in that he has to bing bong before he can even attack. Demogorgan is the only killer who comes close to that mobility but he needs to plant a portal first, open it up, still has a 14 second cooldown and then on top of that his portals can be destroyed. Billy can go anywhere he wants right from the very start of the game and there’s no stopping him and no cooldown, map permitting.
Also not one of those killers has an instadown. Billy has all that mobility and instadowns on top.
He doesn’t need to delay the chase unlike Ghostface or Myers, nor is his ability on a time limit. Bubba has a chainsaw too but he suffers a larger movement penalty and a bigger penalty for missed attacks, he doesn’t have the mobility like Billy either.
So Billy seems like such out of place design. They normally give killers either strength or mobility. Not only does Billy get both but he gets arguably the best mobility and instadowns in the game.
Only Oni comes close but then he only has access to this half of the time.
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I would have to respectfully disagree, considering how billy is one of the only killers that can easily juggle four survivors( with his high mobility and the fear of getting insta downed.) i think any competent billy will slug a survivor after downing them and zoom straight back to the generator that he was working on, also billy with surveillance and this new ruin will be crazy.
Like i said i didnt say he needs a nerf im just stating why i believe others do not like him right now.
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Than you should check again, i hate the idea of catering to new players who do not have the knowledge to form an opinion based on facts. Why bother with the opinion of a person that has 20hrs in the game, has no clue about anything? Yeah right that is the opinion and input we need.
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Thats what i was trying to say, thank you for going into more detail.
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alright so next time i wanna post something i will run it through you officer! ( ive been playing this game since late 2018 btw so i have more than 20hrs, always in red ranks for killer and survivor so i think my opinion is valid.)
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The thing i don't understand is how is this a bad thing? Like yea sure its out of place, doesn't mean its bad.
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You just explained why Billy is strong. His weakness in loops is what keeps him balanced.
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Don't worry, Billy is getting nerfed next, he and Cannibal are next for an add-on update and we all know that with that will also come some base kit nerfs.
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Patch notes will start with: "To keep Hillbilly and Leatherface more in line with all killers, a cooldown...."
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Literally the only killer that can have that... He isnt even the best killer, he can be looped normally
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Yeah, Billy is about to have a 15-second cooldown for his chainsaw, nerfed turning, and double charge speed. All devs need to hear is a whisper of a nerf and poof, it comes to fruition.
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please explain what the difference between his ability to run around a loop(his weakness as you said) and a killer like Myers or even oni, or hey how about almost every other killer in the game ?
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Well, it's simple, loops are way too good. It's why half the cast is absolutely awful and the ability to cancel loops is so strong.
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Yes this is the problem people have. Good thread. (Don't nerf Billy devs)
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so you cant really use it as a "weakness for only him" if literally all killers suck at it. I would also argue that there are a few killers that can deal with loops such as freddy, spirit ,(a good nurse though those are very rare these days ) and maybe even hag if you know how to set your traps .
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It's still a weakness for Billy. Doesn't matter if other killers happen to share the same weakness. Put simply, Billy can be ran around like any other killer. He has great map pressure and an instadown but if you run into a jungle gym or a loop, Billy is just an m1 killer. He's really strong against players that don't look behind, can't loop, or hear the chainsaw and decide to stick on the gen anyways. But is that really something that he should be punished for?
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Billy doesn't need a nerf outside of add on changes. Yes, his map pressure is great. You shouldn't get cross map sniped with his saw unless you're really not paying attention, and BBQ or Tremors are super easy to counter. At loops, stay conservative and throw the pallet when it doubt. Extra loops=curves.
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I’ll leave this here as an example..
So I had 3 games of survivor tonight. All 3 against a Billy. In every game survivors were going down seconds after the last was hooked. Its just sprint across catching them out of position and then instadown.
There were only 2 survivors in these 3 games that lasted more than seconds in a chase, myself and someone who ran Billy for a few gens in the first game (no Ruin).
In all these cases the survivors were either the same or higher rank than the killer.
Before I get any “git gud” comments I was holding my own in chases, but then I have over 1600 hours on the game.
This just goes back to what I was saying before that you NEED great survivors to beat a Billy. You need the survivors to have significantly more killer than the killer.
This is the very definition of OP. People are picking up this killer and destroying other people of similar skill levels so hard they can’t get any gen progress done. You need players of significantly higher skill to overcome that handicap.
This guy should have been nerfed way before Spirit.
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If we're talking Myers, the guy has better vaulting speed than the rest of the killer cast, even in T2. This isnt taking in regard is stealth capabilities or anything.
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Potato team mates are potato teammates and teammates doing bad saves are just doing bad plays.
I have seen the same(From the survivor perspective) of my teammates who don't respect teir 3 Michael, when exposed by Ghost face, or broken vs corrupt purge plague so your point doesn't stand if even sub pair killers like plague can do it(I love plague to death but she isn't very good).
If we nerfed every killer so even the worst survivor can beat them then what is even the point of having the killer to begin with?
Edit: The kill trades off of hooks is litterally made into a perk called "Make your choice" Which all killers can use.
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how does his stealth ability help with going against crazy loops?
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They say the answer to ruin nerf is good old fashioned map pressure.
They also say billy is annoying because of good old fashioned map pressure.
Im done with y'all lol
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But this always happens.
Ok the first game the survivors weren’t too bad and the Billy played well. So we can accept that.
Next game Billy was wrecking the survivors seconds after hooking the previous. Bad survivors? Ok fair enough. He chases me and I looped him for so long. He wasn’t that special a Hillbilly. Quite medicore.They were all the same rank on the tally screen.
Next game again he’s downing them in seconds, I get him to chase me and I evade him a good number of times so he gives up. The survivors were all higher ranks than him this time. Bad survivors again? The Billy wasn’t that great either.
But this happens all the time. People are quick to say bad survivors but consistently? Every game it just happens to be bad survivors again and again and again?
and when the Billys chase me most of the time they aren’t anything special just mediocre.
Its that consistency that highlights the problem. No other killer does this yet game after game Billy is a one man wrecking crew.
They can’t all be bad survivors. The people playing Hillbilly are probably the same people going down to him. It should be averaging out across a number of games but it never does.
Billy is “overperforming”.
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For the loops, he has his faster vaulting to help out. That can be huge at getting hits at shack and other loops that involve a window. The stealth can score him hits before a survivor GETS to the loops, but hes not completely helpless once they're there.
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Dude i have had the same thing happen with Michael AND wraith for about 4 games in a row due to people not respecting instant downs. It doesn't matter the killer this happens all the time.
Ranked is too forgiving for survivors to the point that most really shouldn't be at the rank that they are.
Also if your wondering I am in the same boat game wise VS those killers+ billy as I have literally looped them all from one corner of the map to the other at least once if not twice a game yet my teammates dropped like flies to them even wraith who doesn't have an instant down.
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Why do you think your teammates are going down, but your not? Shouldnt that showcase that your better than your teammates when your facing the same exact killer as them but having vastly different results? Wouldnt your results showcase that the character IS infact counterable and that your teammates are failing at doing the exact thing that you yourself are doing?
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I have 1600 hours. (Sad I know).
The hillbillys have like half of that.
It shows that with vastly more experience you can overcome it. Just like people will run through dark souls with no armour and the worst weapon - because through time they gain the skill to overcome the handicap.
All this says to me is that Hillbilly is too easy for an average player to pick up and destroy other players of the same skill level. They can’t ALL be bad survivors, not every game.
If I went against a 4000 hour Billy like you see on Twitch I’m sure they would be less predictable and be able to mindgame me better and get me down quick. These hillbillys do very little of that yet still destroy. Hell one of them was moonwalking even though I had direct line of sight on him? What the hell?
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Yes they can be bad survivors as the survivor ranks are so easy people who don't belong higher then yellows have been in my red ranked teammates...10 games in a row...
Your issue is it boils down to the survivor ranks is putting people who don't belong in higher up ranks against killers who do thus are vastly better then them.
TLDR: Your issues isn't with billy but survivor ranks/ques as a whole
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But again....the Billys are the same rank or lower.
Billy does DESTROY the low ranks. I remember that from old rank resets. When anyone can pick him up at low ranks and 4 man 5 gen so easily theres a problem.
Even if these current red/purple ranks are boosted they should be doing better against green rank billys.
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Are you saying that your skill lvl is different from all of your teammates? Hours played doesnt equate to skill, although it can be a good indicator. Someone whos played for 1000 hours is more likely to be more skilled than someone with 100, but not necessarily. If you yourself are able to play just fine while your teammates are getting slaughtered, doesn't that just indicate that they shouldn't be in the same match as you rather than a problem with the killer?
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Again its the ranks again not billy
As someone who has gotten purple for both killer and survivor(Would have been red if survivor didn't begin to bore me) I can tell you its VASTLY easier to earn ranks as survivor then killer.
That means that killers at the same rank WILL ALMOST ALWAYS BE MORE SKILLFUL THEN THE SURVIVORS AT THE SAME RANK DUE TO THAT RANK BEING MUCH HARDER TO EARN.
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@LordGlint Hours played doesn’t always equal skill no, but it’s a pretty damn good indicator.
@WAR Killers not hard to rank up in either. None of the other killers in the game highlight this problem like Hillbilly does. I get what you’re saying but I still think Hillbilly is still slightly OP. I say this based on seeing him dismantle survivors time and time again over 1600 hours. There’s a real consistency there.
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Thats what I said, lol.Why are your teammates dropping like flies if your the same rank as they are and doing just fine? If they're is such a huge difference between you and your teammates, shouldnt that indicate that your teammates shouldnt be in the same match as you rather than a problem with the killer...whom your winning chases again?
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OK your clearly not listening so this will be my last comment on this:
What your saying I see happen nearly every game with Michael for me but rarely with billy.
Does that mean Michael is overpowered or does that mean that my teammates are boosted?
Remember even to the steam achievement charts getting rank 10+(currently 10.8% but fluxuates between 10.6 and 12.7 from what I have seen) for survivor is so common it isn't even considered a rare achievement while the killer equivalent is with roughly HALF(currently 6.0% but i have seen it fluctuate between 5.0 and 6.5%) as many people getting it.
Steam achievement statistics support that killer's ranks are in fact MUCH harder if not twice as hard to get.
Killer ranks are factually harder to get by all statistics I am sorry if you disagree with them but facts are facts.
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Dude you know you checkmated yourself, you explained earlier that you looped billy so long he did give up on the chase... so if billy is so unbalanced you shouldnt be able to do that? The fact that your teammates went down just tells that they are bad at the game.
Ranking up as survivor is easy, too easy, put in swf and voila you have your solo q rollercoaster.
My suggestion to you is, get 3 friends and play swf, they should be kind of similar to your skill. Make a few games against billy and draw your conclusions. Even without voice -> swf you usually know the people and that you can rely on them to not drop like a fly.
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Yeah but everyone said survivor was too easy to rank up in a year ago, and I said nah killers rank up faster....fast forward to early 2019 and the devs come out and say it that lo and behold killers are getting empty lobbies because they rank up faster than survivors.
Also you gotta think how many people get this to play with their friends and therefore never touch killer? Steam achievements dont tell the whole picture.
I agree with you about Myers. I remember when I got put with green ranks they would all group up around him and all get slugged in the span of 30 seconds. Difference is that stopped in red and purple ranks, Billys streak didnt lol
I think we will have to agree to disagree
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