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Oh no! A killer is good! Unfun!
Seriously, why is every good killer viewed as unfun and unfair. Because they can get kills? I'm not even a pure one side main, more 50/50 and basically exclusively surv lately.
I am so not shocked why killers do get nerfed in weird ways. The community asks for it!
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I never thought that BHVR would be that type of company who loves to destroy playstyles just because someone is mad.
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The thing is this, ranking in this game sucks donkey balls. Potatoes get to the highest rank possible without much effort, they think they are good at the game. Now they meet some killer, get rekt, are unable to learn how to counter it and do not wanna put in the effort to learn. Thus you end up with crybabies on the forums about blablabla ghostface op, billy op, everything op, pls remove killer.
No idea why these babies even play a "horror" game seems to me they would have much more fun in hello kitty.
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It depends WHY they are good.
Mette of Man was a good perk. Why did it have to be nerfed? Because killers couldn’t handle the extra hit?
No its because it felt unfair to deal with. It was good for survivors and made them stronger but completely unfair for the other side.
Take Freddy. He’s not so bad. He’s strong but I don’t see the majority calling for nerfs.
However look at the old Forever Freddy build. Swings chains + jump rope was 21%, add thanatophobia and it could go up to 37%, throw in say 4-5 stacks of dying light and you had 49%-52% slowdown on generators. Then you had Ruin and Pop resetting any progress the survivors made.
Freddy was strong and that was fine however Forever Freddy was extremely unfun because it just translated to survivors holding M1 longer. It wasn’t very fun game design.
Legion isn’t the strongest killer but has had more calls for a rework than any other killer. Why? Because he’s not fun.
If you play both roles then ideally you want killers to be strong AND fun but thats a tricky balancing act. You need something to make them strong but not something that will make them unfun to play against.
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I think the Nurse is fine, and fun to play against (provided they don't proxy camp every single hook), since I've only faced 2-3 Nurses, ever, that were godskilled.
I don't think Hillbilly is balanced because he takes no effort or skill to utilize effectively.
I think Hag is balanced because of her setup time and reduced movement speed, and her power has clear limits, drawbacks, and counters.
Comparatively, I think the Trapper is as well (even though I have magnetic ankles), since it follows along the same rules. (I still think Bloody Coil is stupid, though.)
Pig remains my favorite killer from a design perspective, since she was designed not to tunnel, and her power has a baseline effectiveness and requires no intervention on Pig's part to have that function.
Myers has a build up to a powerful payoff, and is pretty cool in general just popping up on people. I like the idea of his design as a result.
I feel like Leatherface is dull and needs a rework, so that he doesn't end up being like Myers.
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As someone who actually plays more as survivor (because killer isn't very fun), I find playing against windows like the one in the ironworks of misery to be more unfun and annoying than any killer has ever been.
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Mettle Of Man shouldn't never exist. What's the point of punishing killers for... Having a successful chase?
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I agree with much of what you say... except mettle of man.
The perk itself was horribly designed. Yes, it’s one extra hit, but you start combining them with the survivor meta perks and you have damn near invincible survivors. An extra hit can add several minutes to a chase with a good survivor, further compounding a killers problems.
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But that was the point.
Was it good? Yes
Was it extremely unfair? Yes
Killers didn’t complain just because it was strong, it was also the fact that it felt completely unfair to play against.
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Doesn't matter dude, they'll still say hillbilly is op even at base it seems even though he deals with loops just like every other m1 killer never mind that if he didn't have his movement he'd just be leatherface but can only down 1 person or that curving does require skill and isn't that reliable if survivors can predict it because he is reving the saw around a corner. But hey hillbilly op am i right?
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The issue with citing "fun" is that it's not quantifiable, and rather subjective. But more specifically in this game, I think the "fun" of one side of the game ofte goes overlooked in favour of the other.
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Not it was not good it was broken af. Yes survivor gets rewarded for losing a chase, good concept.
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I can see this is going over your head.
The whole topic is the concept of GOOD meaning STRONG killers in this context.
Was Mettle of Man a good design? No. However was it strong? Very much so.
So although it was good (read strong) for one side, it was unfair and unfun for the other.
This is what is being evaluated and discussed with killers. Complaining about something people unfun isn’t the same as complaining about something they find strong. Again Freddy is a good example. Most people didn’t complain about the killer they complained about a specific build on the killer that sucked the fun out of the game.
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That is very true. Best they can do is try to compromise and please people best they can.
I mean look at DS. Killers hate it due to being punished for not tunneling. They want the timer shortened. Survivors have been calling for that 60 seconds to be increased since day one due to being slugged or looping for 60 seconds then going down. There is some compromise on DS.
Or Ghostface. Killers complained he was too weak. Killers also wanted hooked and slugged survivors to not be able to reveal him. He got buffed and some survivors hate him, however so far he can still be revealed by hooked survivors to stop him camping with his ability.
The devs definitely try to compromise on a lot of things and I think people are too hard on them sometimes. You can’t please everyone.
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As others have alluded to, it kind if depends on what is making that killer good or unfun.
I'd argue Nurse's add ons were the issue, not her base kit. I'll die on that hill.
Spirit changes were excellent. I do just as well as I did before and some of her add ons were absurd.
Forever Freddy was the whole reason Freddy was originally reworked. I suspect he was never reworked primarily because he was weak. It was a reason, but the biggest one was how unfun he was to face.
I don't think Billy should be changed outside of add ons, but they don't balance with skilled survivors in mind as of late. We should brace ourselves.
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I'm personally hard on the devs these days because it's become apparent to me that their plan for the game is to make it extremely friendly to new survivor player and completely ignore how the game is like at higher skill levels. A revolving door strategy of having new players get invested, spend some money and then walk away when the game starts to get boring due to insane imbalance when survivors actually learn the role.
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It seems like it, doesn't it? There was a thread complaining about Freddy a few days back...the top complaints on him were:
- He can't be looped. - Yes he can, just loop him differently.
- Freddy players don't meme (yes, this was a real complaint)
- "He has gen pressure" - Yep. You read it right. With ruin gone it's time to start attacking killers with gen pressure.
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It kinda depends on the killer. For spirt I never had a problem with her besides the fact you couldn’t tell if she was vaulting the window on the survivor side. Spirt is still fine after her change cause she’s still powerful and with Nurse I can’t really say much cause I never played as her cause I’m a console player. What I can see and what I heard is that it takes skill to play as nurse? The only two powerful killers that got nerfed is Spirt and Nurse I have no idea for nurse but I know for sure that Spirt is still really good. Now for Freddy and Ghostface I hope they never get changed cause right now they’re in a really good spot. I think Dbd should focus on their weak killers like poor Leatherface.
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But i disagree with the part where you state it was good, it was broken af. Most people knew that it was just that and bhvr were told that it is just exactly that and they went ahead with it anyway so more people would buy the dlc because otherwise you miss out on the ez pz bully fun.
The equivalent of MoM is not freddy but old legion, before release bhvr again were told that this is not a good idea, at least that is how i remember it.
Also it completely depends on the person, some people care about winning others do not, some actually care about the balance of the game.
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You can make a killer trash and they can still be unfun (like the old legion), so it's not all about how strong they are (unless you are a survivor that wants to escape every single match).
For example, I personally find billy to be very fun to go against, but find freddy to be boring. Freddy is absolutely fine in terms of power and he is weaker than billy but do I like going against him? Not really, because his power is not very unique and doesn't require much skill to use. Basically the opposite of billy.
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"Strong killer bad, weakened killers good"
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Not really.
I play as Legion and toxic survivors complain that he’s overpowered then report me. Legion is pretty weak compared to Spirt and others, but strong compared to Leatherface. It just depends how many toxic survivors you run into and sadly it’s a lot (for me). It just depends on the player by how good they play as the “weak killers”.
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Past green ranks I play mostly nothing but toxic survivors, so it's very hard not to be totally cynical
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I main Hag and Pig, but okay.
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