Killers hear me out
The issue with you not winning isn't ruin or gen speed. It never was. It's you. You've just become so accustomed to the failure of survivors (As in you'd get matches where ruin was clutch only because survivors never learned to adapt to ruin) that you've yet to adapt to anything else and try any other strategies. So many killers have complained that ruin was always gone within the first 30 seconds of the match anyway. Killers have also complained that strong, highly co-ordinated SWF could power through ruin so it didn't even matter. So what difference does it make now that it doesn't exist in the same way?
As a survivor main I saw a lot of different killers today. There were killers that seriously struggled and some killers that kicked ass. The killers that struggled are those that got way too involved in the "MUH RUIN!!!!" hysteria that they honestly played the game like they had no chance. Today marks the first day I was facecamped by a Billy that got flustered when two gens popped at the same time and I could honestly not believe it. It was hilarious. But its all in their head. The killers that kicked ass ditched ruin early and started to adapt to new play styles. I had killers like Trapper/Hag set up a 3 gen scenario while getting a few downs in the process. I had a Legion that decided once he was down 3 gens to start slugging to pull all survivors off of gens to buy himself some time. I also had a Tru3Ta1ent wraith that refused to commit and just kept beating on us to keep us off of gens and focus on stabilizing rather than objectives. Among other things. It was those killers that won.
You can complain all you want about your clutch being taken away. But as of right now the robotic motions of patrol gens, find survivor, down survivor, hook survivor, use BBQ to locate next survivor, wash/rinse/repeat, are over. You need to get creative or you'll lose. Period.
Comments
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Only one question. Do you ever played killer before?
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Yes, plenty.
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I shall respect your opinion, and the fact that you can think as you wish. However, I do not have the same opinion as you.
There has been a lot of talk beforehand about when nurse was to good, and that it was unfair to go against her, and she was worked on.
There was the time, right after, where spirit was now to good for the game, as her power had no counter play to it, and she was changed.
People complained about Oni's flick being to powerful, and then that has was changed, and now it is at a semi-old state.
So survivors complained about all these killers, and they all got changed.
Many killers, as you have seen in the past few weeks, aren't very happy with this ruin. Why is it ok for survivors to complain, but not killers?
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Ok survivor main, here's the deal. Remove your infinity gauntlet more commonly known as borrowed time. Ridiculous that it has infinite uses btw. Make DS deactivate after another survivor has been hooked. Make adrenaline actually follow the rules of exhaustion perks... Finally, reduce map size to make unviable killers viable. Then we can talk, until then save it for when the game is actually fairly balanced.
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I don't see why BT is an issue. Unless you tunnel, you'll hardly ever deal with it.
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I'm going to.... agree.
I stopped using Ruin a while ago on most killers and it's made me a better player. Often when I take Ruin I end up regretting it because I mess up the build I enjoy and perform best for a perk that isn't really that good against good players. Majority of the time if I won with Ruin I could have easily won without it.
Killers have this mentality that they can only win if they kill survivors with 4/5 gens left. You don't, especially now that Gatekeeper is changed. You can actually relent on some gens to focus more on the ones that are easier to defend. I always find it funny that most killers on the forums somehow expect survivors to not do gens. IT IS LITERALLY THEIR ONLY OBJECTIVE. So what if they do 2 in your first chase. Unless those two gens are critical gens that would split the map, it's really not a big deal. I've 4k'd with 1/2 gens left many times because I played smart and focused on keeping them off the gens I needed to.
A good example of this is the gen in Myers house on Haddonfield. Yes the map sucks for killer, but if you let this gen go you will almost always lose the game. If you protect this gen like your newborn baby you can get a survivor in the basement, and if you basement a survivor on this map you can snowball very very hard (unless the window at the top of the basement stairs is open that will screw you over, yes). And there is usually a gen somewhere outside the Myers house nearby. Just pick one more gen and focus on keeping them off as much as possible. If you wear down survivors enough you will win through attrition.
Killers also do exactly what you say... chase - hook - BBQ - repeat. They play like bots and expect to win. No you have to play to your opponent and your strengths. Sometimes that means giving up a chase. Sometimes that means slugging at key moments. Sometimes that means playing defensive on gens and waiting for the survivors to mess up so you can capitalize. A lot of the times I lose is because I just end up chasing one guy way too long. Yesterday I was playing Nurse, I was catching these guys quickly. Until I got to this one Laurie that ran me for a solid 2 gens. She was smarter than the others, and the only reason I really wanted her was because she was my last stack of BBQ. The smart thing would be to let her go and go after the others until some die, THEN go after her as I could afford the time. I knew by chasing her I would throw the game. Thankfully I still managed to pull out a 4k but I had to make quick and good decisions in the moments after I caught her. The got a gate open even and I caught 2 of them before they could get out. One could have easily just run out but she wanted to try and bodyblock then rescue the other, and I got them both. They messed up, I capitalized, turned a 3k into a 4k.
Too many killers play like bots then complain the game is unfair. Yes, in some cases the game is unfair I won't deny that. But it's actually not that common as people would have you believe. Maybe 9 of 10 games I play as killer I think to myself at the start "this is going to be an L". The rest is me screwing up if I lose. And even in those games where I think I might lose out the gate, I just play scummy. Camp, tunnel, slug. It sucks but it's my only option sometimes. I feel bad but I don't have a choice. And yea it's not fun to play this way, but it's also not fun to get bullied. I'd rather not have fun and win, than not have fun and lose. Playing scummy is generally an easy path to victory, even if it's not that fun, and killers overlook this fact. DS, Unbreakable, DH, etc. You can beat all that if you play scummy majority of the time. It sucks to do but it works. Stop being pushovers and trying to play nice, get your hands dirty once in a while. You will win more because of it and thus be less tilted at the end of the game.
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Ruin is removed because Survivors can't hit skill checks and Killers are the babies?
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You can say that, but a lot of survivor nerfs have happened as well so I fail to see your point. If you look at the state of the game when it first came out compared to now, survivors have kinda taken a beating.
There are definitely some killers that need to be reworked. Like Clown. But some killers definitely needed a nerf, too. Spirit moves so fast in her phasing ability that it didn't really take much to find survivors with collision and just whack 'em. I still get destroyed by Spirits. I think it was a fair trade-off in that case.
I 100% disagreed with the Oni nerf and thought Oni was trash upon release. The only survivors that fail against him are those that are too altruistic or gen happy.
As for Nurse, I dunno. I play on PS4 and Nurses on console just can't compare to the horror stories I've heard of Nurses on PC. I can't comment on this one.
Obviously if you don't agree with something, like you and I have both done here, you can feel free to voice your opinions and if BHVR agrees they'll implement it into the game. Nothing is ever set in stone anyway. But I just think a lot of killers were too used to one specific style of play and can't fathom the idea of having to adapt to anything else.
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If a survivor hook bombs right in front of me why should the injured survivor be allowed to get away safely? If they did an unsafe unhook in front of me you better believe I'm downing the injured survivor. That's just common sense. It's not tunneling if the other survivors can't be bothered to come up with a better tactic then unhooking in front of the killer. Don't want them tunneled? Don't stay at the hook, especially when I know your there.
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I use Sprint Burst/Inner Strength/Iron Will/Spine Chill. The only time I'll ever use any of the other perks you've listed is when I noticed I'm getting tunneled a lot in a day and I'll throw on DS. I mean there's very little that can be done if a killer decides to tunnel you so its kinda like insurance.
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O, so you mean the tactic used of the one with the BT buff to body block for the rescuer, so they both get away? Using it for a use not for what it was intended? 'Hardly ever deal with it.'
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Thank you for sharing this. When I lose as killer its often because of the mistakes I made. There are some balance issues, I agree with you on that. But in MOST CASES its me. I've definitely had my share of over committing to a teabagging survivor that could loop me for days and I've lost. Or not caring about generators and just going straight for survivors. Among other things. But yes, a lot of killers fail to self-reflect and see the biggest threat in the game: themselves.
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Yes.
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If they have BT it's not an unsafe hook. The fact you look at it this way is why you lose as killer.
Go for the guy that made the save. If you hit them before they finish the save then you down them and take their hook. If you got for the guy that got saved and they end up having BT, then you just took the bait and failed to capitalize on the rescue.
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Facts, man.
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Sorta other way around. Killers get accustomed to losing and failing and struggling so much, that they become numb to the prospect of losing at all.
So you either have people sticking around to become god tier killers, or people just losing interest in the role. They may try survivor and like that because it's less stressful, or they may just leave the game.
Thing is, why is the survivor the least stressful and intense role in a horror game? That baffles me.
Don't confuse "Easy" with words like stressful, frustrating, and so on though please. There is skill to playing survivor no doubt I play them too; but you definitely don't have to get anywhere close to as sweaty, and you don't get anywhere close to the kind of post game chat toxicity should you not mute it.
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Whenever I see obsession I just slug. End of story. Not going to bother with DS otherwise. I just hate how cocky survivors get when they have the those perks equipped. It gives them immunity to the killer for a time and they knowingly abuse it. That's why when they hook bomb I don't hit them anymore. I just sit and wait for them to try and unhook. Either I get the grab or their friend dies on hook. Simple and brutally efficient.
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I'd also mention that having 3 survivors uninjured and 1 survivor injured is not as good as having two survivors injured and two survivors uninjured. If you just tunnel the same person then everyone else is free to continue with objectives. If you have multiple people injured their little bracket of invinciblity is removed and they can't make risky plays.
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That's why I just wait for the grab now. I'm not playing by "survivor rules".
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Your title puts everyone under the same umbrella, however in your post, you say there are good and bad killers.
Get your stuff straight; This is a meaningless post, meant only to diss "killer mains", therefore I assume you're an entitled survivor who couldn't deal with ruin and you're just happy about how it is now.
Before you assume that I'm an angry killer main - I am not. I have way more survivor matches and I could careless about ruin wether I'm playing survivor or killer because I don't think that relying on hex totems is a solid strategy.
Anyway, if not to diss and spill hate, what is the whole point of this post? To hope that old ruin never comes back? It won't , don't worry.
You got it wrong, ruin is gone because new survivor players can't deal with it, so please think twice before making a huge wall of words full of hate towards one side.
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I think that's more of a societal issue where we live in an age of participation trophies and rewards for standard behaviour. If you can't be instantly good at killer and get frustrated at the prospect of trying to get better...then perhaps DbD isn't the game for you. At least killer-wise anyway.
The game isn't stressful for survivors when you play the robotic meta killer. Survivor easily becomes stressful (And fun!) when you have a killer that breaks the mold and goes against expectations. You have no idea how hard it was for me in the Legion game I mentioned above where I had to juggle between attempting to do gens and getting teammates back up and trying to stabilize. I can't be everywhere at once.
I agree with you on the last point. But again, it's really a non-issue because you can turn messages off. Lol Anyone that complains about post-game toxicity is doing it to themselves.
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I'm only dissing the bots but I needed to generalize for clickbait. If you bothered to read my post you see I gave a shoutout to the good killers.
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I have those matches too, but there is no real stress in it. You don't feel helpless, you feel in control almost all the time as survivor. You can leave a game when you want by dying on hook with no real punishment, but a killer has to stick it through to the end.
Survivors objectives are mostly just holding M1 and interacting with something.
Every single aspect of what the killer does, has to be perfect, they have almost no room for error, but as a survivor you can make plenty.
There is skill to survivor don't get me wrong, but to even remotely compare them on a level of frustration and sweat and effort required is just not comparable.
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What survivor rules? Lol. You're the killer! You're the one in control. But you can't just swing blindly either and hope for a 4k. You know the survivor threats and have to adapt.
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I don't usually have issues with variations of gameplay as matches call for. Overly Altruistic Survivors? Slug the downed one to prevent bodyblock. I check gen position s early on, develop a patrol route, and learn the survivors and variate my Strat as situations call for.
Also, breaking the mold? Feature PS4 Nurse Main Btw
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Nah, survivor main. Just stop.
Good killer players will still get plenty of 4ks and 'win' at rank 1. I've been playing without ruin since the nerf announcement. Plenty of 4ks. Know why? Matchmaking is a joke right now. Rank reset was changed so more people are in higher ranks. People are getting matched in games they don't deserve to be in.
The thing is, now, after the ruin change, if a killer gets matched with 4 survivors that are equally skilled, that killer has to outperform the survivors by a wide margin in order to win.
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The problem I have with killer is one mistake and you pretty much lose the game. There is more room for errors for survivors
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The only time I ever feel in control as a survivor is when the killer is acting predictably and I can continue completing objectives with ease. That's not on me, that's on the killer.
And killers can make errors. Like the Legion scenario I mentioned in my original post. They got gen rushed for 2/3 gens for 1) Whiffing on their first ability during my sprint burst bait and over committing to me. He then decided to slug me (And the guy that came to save me) to buy more time. It worked.
And killers can totally quit the game. They just don't get points for it. But killers not being able to just walk out and take the points makes sense. Its the killer's match. That and from a gameplay perspective having killers take the L and receive points would make for a lot of really #########, short games with no substance.
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In the meantime, survivors are mass Dc'ing vs doc again
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So then what's your issue? This post clearly doesn't apply to you. Lol Unless you're genuinely upset that you're winning? The same advice goes for survivors, by the way. If you want you can totally hop into one of my SWF parties and you can hear me ######### my team out for making stupid mistakes. Git gud or GTFO. Well, not really. I'll play with anyone. But don't play the game if you have no capacity to adapt and learn.
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Survivors seem to think killers should abide by a "killer should make the game fun and not boring for survivors code/ruleset". Can't tell you how many messages I've gotten like that in addition to being called sweaty. I prefer playing competitively to have fun. Don't like it, not my problem. I'm here to kill survivors.
All 4 survivors down 2 mins into the match, not my problem. I don't care if you waited 40 mins in the lobby. Your all getting hooked and I'm moving onto the next match. I get gen rushed in 4 mins by SWF with no downs or hooks, I reserve the right to stop playing and/or end the match. Think it biased, unfair, being a sore loser? I don't care. I'm not here for survivors entertainment. I'll just move on to the next match until it's no longer fun for me.
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I've always taken that as a compliment, personally. I have no idea why this frustrates people. With the exception being Rift challenges. Admittedly I did get frustrated when 3/4 attempts at the sacrifice all survivors in the basement challenge went awry because survivors decided to d/c instead.
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OOF. Imagine shutting someone down in one sentence like that.
THAT'S gotta hurt.
TOP KEK.
Except, most killers won't really want to tunnel you off the hook if you get farmed right in front of them. USUALLY what happens is, you get farmed, and they down you and go after the person who farmed you. They do that as a punishment to the unhooker, as it cucks them of benevolence because they didn't get the safe unhook.
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1) You sound like you watch a lot of GamingwithJayTV and 2) I have no empathy for you when it's a personal choice to leave your messages on.
You're the killer. It's your game. You make the calls. It's not a bannable offense ot camp/tunnel. It's frowned upon because there's not a ton of counterplay to this if you want to be altruistic. If you choose to tunnel one survivor and/or face camp and only end up with 1k or a depip then that's totally up to you. If in the process you get a 4k due to overly altruistic survivors then that's on the survivors. But again, you're the killer. It's your call.
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Just find it annoying how some players use DC'ing as a weapon
Not all of them ofcourse but i have multiple people say "If i DC enough against it, it will get nerfed"
As a survivor having half your team leave because one of the 2 man swf had their first down cause they couldn't drop a pallet after being shocked isn't that complimentery
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And yet I was completely unphased and still here. Lol
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Alright. That is fair. Nurse and spirit were, and still are, powerful. Some things do need to change.
But I will rebuttle with this:
You said that "but some killers definately needed a nerf, too". But what about survivors?
I agree with what you said. Compared to at launch, survivors have taken a beating. But if nurse and spirits nerfs were necessary, then survivor's ability to infinate at 2 windows and pallet vacuum were just as needed.
I agree that people like clown and pig need a buff completely.
The only problem is, this doesn't answer the original question.
So, I must ask. If survivors are allowed to complain about problems they find in the game, why is it that killers are considered babies, in your opinion, if they complain about ruin?
Also, a quick answer for the playstyle thing you were talking about. Yes, killers can slug and set up a 3-gen scenario, but there are 3 issues with that:
1. While playing killer, the game does not reward people for playing like that.
2. Slugging and 3-gening is not a fun way to play for either killer or survivor.
3. People in the community complain about killers doing stuff like that. This causes a mentality that you shouldn't play that way.
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Never mentioned tunneling or camping. Amusing people call it that when it's potentially defined entirely differerently by someone else. You call going after the injured recently unhooked survivor tunneling. I call it common sense unless the unhooker was also injured. Then I've no issue going for them instead. Then again taking someone out of the game early is beginning to look more attractive the more i play so we will see. And no, I've no idea who that streamer is. As for end game messages, I don't care anymore. I play how I like to play.
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Maybe in your own small world you have a point. Witch totally justifies the deranking killers are doing. Good luck with your "superb" killers and queue time! I'm working on get my fun back in the game!
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Well the funny thing is...I never said survivors weren't babies. I just called killers the biggest babies. Mostly for clickbait, but there is an ounce of truth. If you look at the gameplay from the game's inception until now you've seen that killer has gotten some major adjustments and survivors have gotten continuously nerfed. Also survivors are forced to adapt to the playstyle of the killer, not the other way around. The killer is control of the game and anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish. Survivors only have the ability to take control when you let them. Like in the case of committing way too long to one survivor.
In response to your three questions:
1) You're right, but the ranking system is busted anyway so why do you care about ranks? I don't. They mean nothing. Ditch your mentality that a good rank is the goal and you'll be set free. Ranks. Mean. Nothing. Just play the game and get your 4k and make the game fun for yourself.
2) This is subjective, It's not always going to be about fun, either. Sometimes you just gotta do what it takes to win. It's not all peaches and cream for survivors, either. I personally don't like saving survivors that get downed, but I often find myself doing it.
3) As I've stated before in this thread, if you leave your messages on public or choose to participate in post-game chat I have little empathy for you.
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I don't even need to read the OP's post to agree. Killer mains do a disproportionate amount of whining on the forums. No doubt about it.
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Well now we're just arguing semantics. But you do you, dude.
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If all it takes for you to have fun is one perk that lasted 20 seconds in most games...then I honestly wish I had your ease of amusement. And I will, thanks! X)
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To be fair, it is a little clickbaitey. But, facts.
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That's probably the only post you have made thus far that I agree with in this thread, lol.
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You know what, fair enough.
You have made your points, and I have made mine.
In the end, we do agree on some things, and others we do not.
I have seen a lot of pretty rude comments from others. No need to be rude. Just try to back your points. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it doesn't mean that you're is wrong.
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It's not just ruin, ruin is the last straw. Toxicity, nerfing, serving only new survivors.. that with matchmaking from hell.... i'm going for rank 17 or lower. It was fun when i played at that ranks.
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Just one thing about the Ruin debate. I don't see how Ruin makes killers worse. It is not increasing your lunge or movement speed, everything you do is as you do without ruin. The only thing Ruin did was buying you time. Even if it was cleansed within one minute. At least there were probably 1-2 survivors walking around to search for it. If you hoooked one person and Ruin is gone: fine. The game just started to roll. 1 on hook, at least 1 to unhook, 50% slowdown.
This is gone now. Almost every game begins with 1 gen done after the first hook, second done most likely during the second chase. Apply pressure? Tell me how to pressure 4 survivors.
Really curious about the next stats release. I'm expecting to see something like "average game time needed per gen pop: 50 seconds"
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I think both sides have their ups and downs with the game, but I don't think it's fair to say one side is whiny over a necessary change they made happen via feedback.
Some Examples:
Mettle of Man was extremely OP at launch, and players, especially killer players, complained. It's not fair to say they are whiny because the perk is legitimately broken and needs immediate balancing.
Legion had no counterplay at launch, and players, especially survivor players, complained. Again, it wouldn't be fair to say they are whiny over a killer that basically said, "Regardless of your skill, you're going down after my power recharges a few times"
Overall, complaining is different from whining, and if players didn't complain about game balance, then they wouldn't get any light from the developers and the game would remain in an unbalanced state. 😁
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Where do i begin....
- you say survivors have been “nerfed” since release, which translates to absurdly broken things like infinites and Mettle being removed. These aren’t nerfs, they are fixes. Killers have continually received nerfs over the past few months.
- as for gen speeds- you do understand that some killers have bad mobility, right? Killers like Michael and pig are not winning matches against competent survivors on farm maps. Even with the best chases, gens are too spread out to protect.
- lastly, you say killers don’t adapt when in reality, survivor crying and unwillingness to adapt caused the recent barrage of killer nerfs. I have adapted to the meta, and I make frequent use of slugging and lame play. The meta change is not going to be fun for anyone
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