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To the Killer mains and others alike.

This will mostly be directed to the Killer mains who have preven to be the most upset, as the outcry has snowballed from actual feedback to just plain nonsensical insulting.

*Survivors whined about Spirit and Nurse and they were gutted!

- Yes, they were. Nurse and Spirit had the highest Kill ratio in the game, coincidentally, it was mostly because of ridiculously powerful addon combinations that just pretty much guaranteed you a win even if you were a potato.

*Survivors cried about Ruin constantly and that is why it was nerfed to the ground. You can hardly have a good match as a killer now because of gens going too quick. And some Killers needed Ruin in order to have a slight chance at the game ie. Clown!

- Actually, Ruin was mostly complained about by both sides in amounts that are almost parallel to one another. Killers would complain that, A) Ruin was gone so early in the game. Or B) Good Survivors would just power through it, making it an useless perk against them. Survivors on the other hand complained about it's use in almost all of the games they played, and was a heavy punishment perk for mid to higher ranks ( most notably Console). As for Killers that "need" Ruin to get something out of a match, These are just Killers that should be the next target for reworks. I do not count Trapper and Hag as a Killer that needs Ruin though. They have extremely powerful late game potential and should make the most of it.

*Killers are the only ones to get nerfed, Ruin gets gutted and Survivors still have DS, BT, Adrenaline, and Keys!.

- This is such an ignorant thing to say and you should never look at things for events that happen within a month - 3 month span. When Ruin was nerfed, hysterical killer mains fail to see what the future may hold and completely dismissed logical thought that changes to GENS or MAPS or how survivors INTERACT with gens would be introduced in due time. BHVR had made it known that with the changes to Ruin, they would be able to collect proper data and see where their focus should be at seeing as the players all have different opinions on it. By the by, if you take DS statistics and times it by X4, there is absolutely no way it should reach a margin of 45% use in ALL GAMES, Which was Ruin's percentage. Don't ignore what the devs could possibly be trying to achieve here.

*Devs are Survivor biased. No doubt about it.

- Okay. This is a bit of an oddball one. This seems to change whenever each side is nerfed and the claims start to shift depending on what gets nerfed. In recent posts, a lot of people and some notable streamers have said that devs are really survivor biased. Now, the most common people you see from the BHVR team on the forums is @Peanits and @Almo . Whatever they post or respond to almost always seemed to be flagged as survivor biased or incompetency (being rude to someone who hasn't with you is what this was). I can assure anyone who bothered reading this that it is most likely not the Intention of these 2 lovely people to convey themselves as favoring one side. Could they change up their posts a bit so it is more polished and maybe cue in the playerbase as to more in the why and what the future plan is with an update is? Of course they can. But these are people, like us, that make mistakes and are not perfect or omniscient. We should also take note and remember that whatever Almo and Peanits say does not reflect the views of all of the development team. This is far too common of a bad habit, and we should look at past history as to why it's bad. Racial Stereotypes that were frowned upon and we managed to move past as a society is a good example as to why it's bad to place labels like we are doing now.

Anyway, Casing point... Can we PLEASE stop going at each other's throats, witch hunting the devs, and cursing those that wanna improve the game by just playing it and making constructive feedback?

I know it's too much to ask for people to leave behind the sarcasm and insults. This is not a thread meant to be provocative.


And for a different topic to think about while you are here. What's your favorite cookie? Mine are Oreos, they're devilishly tempting and I absolutely love them, goes great with any kind of milk.

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Comments

  • DaeTheKnight
    DaeTheKnight Member Posts: 19

    Lol I like snickerdoodle cookies.

    Killer main here. I only truly enjoy the game as killer. And I have to say this update is my favorite so far.

    I hated how I felt like ruin was necessary to win. I felt like I could never get creative with my builds. And when ruin got popped in the first few seconds I lost all motivation to continue with the match. I'd often just chase them till gens were done, open the door so that end game collapse would start and just chase them to the exit.

    Now with ruin gone the devs did something amazing! They fixed gatekeeper!!! They did do something about gen speed. I just think it's weird how everyone is crying over a perk while ignoring what the devs did to make up for it.

    I had a game where 3 people escaped through the hatch with a key. I pipped for it. I ran dying light and had a 3 gen scenario with the windstorm addon on wraith. I finally can get rewarded for giving players a good game.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    Earlier the BK in my area finally fixed their machines up and had shakes up and running.

    Had myself an oreo shake after 4 months of not being able to. They really do taste great with ice cream too. I'd get another if I wasn't trying to watch myself.


    As for the nurse bit, I forgot to declare I was among the people who believed the problem lied with her overpowered addons, and not necessarily her base kit. As for addonless and perkless Nurses I have not faced any ever, so I can't really say.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    Thanks to the awesome people who respected my wishes. I wish everyone would settle down and just go with the flow until everything is changed to the way it should be soon.

  • Mringasa
    Mringasa Member Posts: 980

    I feel bad for the new Survivors now. The matchmaking got worse with the update, but loving my queue times as a Killer (less than 10 seconds every match!!!!). Having that random Rank 20 in a match though is pretty awful. Just think how much fun they are having now! No Ruin, but hey, you only got 5k points because you got matched up with 3 SWF Red Ranks who want to troll and piss off the Yellow Rank Killer.

    The only good thing about this that I can see is... at least I'll get 1 kill per match. Although I can't do it on the Hag because they screwed her up and it's irritating AF trying to play her right now. Oh well. Demodoggy gets to come out of his Kennel for a bit I guess. He does need to get prestiged three times.

    I really love oatmeal raising cookies. Homemade of course, not that store bought trash. Nothing says comfort like some oatmeal raisin cookies, a glass of milk, and hanging people on meathooks. I'll even offer them a cookie if they are nice to me.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583
    edited January 2020

    But that brings back to one of my points.

    It was often said Ruin was so irrelevant in high ranks, it was gone in 30 seconds, survivors just power through it and still manage a gen rush. That's what I find most confusing about it... so the perk is, pretty much the same right now? It's such a huge contradiction with this. New Ruin or old, survivors in the mid high to rank 20s survivors still get destroyed by this perk.

    And the Doctor rework was entirely for survivors? Really? I mean, yes he's still pretty weak imo. But he is definitely worth playing him more now than before. So I disagree with the patch being entirely Survivor sided. Oh and Oni had a 180 on the flick changes too which isn't bad at all.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    I'm not openly insulting a player group.

    Where in the OP did I do that?

    The only thing I can find to be "insulting" is the bit on the hysteria. But it has been exactly that. Calling someone hysterical is not supposed to be an insult, it's just saying " you're overreacting" or "you're being so dramatic".

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,343
    edited January 2020

    Regarding Devs are Survivor Biased:

    With all those Survivor Nerfs that happened, it is quite clear that they are not Survivor Biased. Not gonna say that they were not justified (except Balanced Landing, but I am biased at this point :P ), but it is stupid to call the Devs Survivor Biased.

    I listened to the Podcast of OhTofu, ScottJund, Otzdarva and Usyllis yesterday, and they said (more as a Joke) that for Aprils Fools Day, the Devs should implement Patch 1.0 for one week. And then I want to see people complaining about the current state of the game.

    (The Podcast is btw. something that can be listened to, because there is a good balance between them.)

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    That... would be a really good prank and a real peek at what the game used to be like.

    I feel like you would tell people the stories of DBD back then and they just would not believe it

  • TunnelVision
    TunnelVision Member Posts: 1,375

    Meanwhile SWF still run rampant..

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    Another long and drawn out argument with suggestions that do not even make sense in application.

    - Swfs shouldn't be able to communicate

    - Swfs should have reduced gen speed

    - Swfs should not exist

    - Swfs are too strong and they need a nerf (lol)


    Btw, Gen speeds are most efficient with 2 survivors per gen. Any more and the speed penalty gets in the way and doesn't benefit the "rush".

    Also people get tired of saying this but it's extremely difficult to tweak a swf experience without making a huge impact to solo.

    What you should be looking at is not SWF, but maps, RNGs, weak killers, etc.

  • RipleHHH89
    RipleHHH89 Member Posts: 86

    Snooze. Isn't everyone bored of this back and forth yet? New ruin sucks but we need to get over it already. They want a 50:50 ratio so just camp and tunnel two people and ignore the other two. The pretend it's a 2 V 1 instead.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583
    edited January 2020

    So you're here to be sarcastic and be a complete dunce ignoring the main point and the bigger picture.

    Map reworks and killer buffs is what would increase the chances of Killers having fun in a match.

    And if OoO bothers you so much to the point where you believe it's an actual OP perk I recommend you try these Killers as they are hardly affected by them!

    Pig, T1 Myers, Wraith, Ghostface, Nurse and Huntress!

    But if you really are here to troll then shoo!

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    yes T1 Myers vs OoO. He gets the undetectable status 🤔

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    The post certainly was an indication of catering to survivors.

    But so much is left out to what is going on now, to the changes and features complete in comparison to when they were first announced.

    Again, back to my OP. I did say the devs should try and convey things in a more delicate manner, and try to avoid mistakes like this in the future.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583
    edited January 2020

    I have, Scratched Mirror is so nice for T1. It's almost as if Object becomes a wasted perk slot. 🤔🤔🤔

    I'm surprised you had it in you to chime in about Myers but not Huntress, which was what I was expecting you to go after.

    If you're struggling against Object as T1 Myers there's no way it's bc playing as T1 myers

  • KindredMain
    KindredMain Member Posts: 8

    I think you are too forgivable for these devs. Honestly they really just do what they want with Ruin as when they rolled out the PTB patch and giving players surveys about it but there's nothing about Hex: Ruin in it. Why? Because they already knew how the playerbase would react, entitled survivors will be in joy, killer players will rage about it but the worst thing is they don't want to change even if it would turn out THIS bad.

    The devs are known for survivor biased but you will pass on this one fact as a "mistake that everyone could do" but as a game DEVELOPER they should listen to the community as a whole instead just please one side. Look at League of Legends and Battlerite, one always listen to their community and adapt their strategy even if their balancing skills are awful, the result is you have one of the most unbalanced but also popular games on Earth. One is perfectly balanced, great devs but then they decided to abandon fans and players to jump on the small group that yell for Battle Royale trending - exactly how this Ruin nerf happened, and what did it result? The game was dead, the devs don't appologize or talk about it (sound familiar?) and 6 months later it shut down and reseted to the very base game before the ridiculous change. You know what the best part is? After the devs abadoned the game, reverted it back to the previous state players started to come back.

    So what is the moral of the story? Always listen to the community as a whole, always try to change for them, don't take a side that only benefits you (as we know survivor players are 3 times bigger than killer's). I know you want to everyone to chill out but how could you said that to a whole community who both play killers and survivors? They litterally just make everything worse for killers, what did you expect when you kick a dog? Want it to just lie there? There are reasons for this outrage and you can't ignore it by saying these people complaning is invalid and being ignorant of the situation is the best solution now.

    Also, i'm a Vietnamese so... cookies are kinda rare here. I know this off topic is just a distraction from this whole mess.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    F a i r


    Though people are probably gonna be going on about this for the next month until a mid chapter update comes along

  • RipleHHH89
    RipleHHH89 Member Posts: 86

    With more stuff to complain about most likely lol the atmosphere with these arguments about nerfs etc is making Dbd a not so nice place to try and relax and have fun. Hopefully things improve soon.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    If I'm being honest I also believe I am a little too forgiving. It's a bleeding character trait I have.

    I have worked with a dev team and community as a management member for about 2 years so I have a slight understanding of what things *should be and have my theories on what is going on but without side tracking. The main difference between league and this game is a vast majority in player difference. Theres a difference between complaint threads, "hysteria" threads , and actual constructive feedback threads.

    Riot has access to a larger pool of constructive feedback from its community as much as they get the increased hysteria posts.

    The devs will mostly look at constructive feedback, and take notes, answer, etc.

    As for bugs, this is a tough one because it depends on the bug. Some have easier solutions than others. The toughest part in bug patching for DBD is Identifying the bug based on descriptions and hearsay, and making a fix without breaking something else. Some are harder than others. For the Source engine, typically you as a player have access to console, which so happens that it will display any errors within any .lua (as an example) files that you can show a dev, and they will immediately know where to look, so identifying is extremely easy. Source uses coding languages that are not hard to learn, so fixing is typically done within the month, and usually dont extend past 3 depending on the game, or how the game distributes patches.


    Also to the off topic. Dont know much about Vietnam. But isnt there something similar to cookies? I know some people who would call wafers cookies. Nothing wrong with that.

  • FearlessHunter
    FearlessHunter Member Posts: 530
    edited January 2020

    If you actually listened to the reason why people didn’t like the nurse changes was because they nerfed her basekit by putting a cooldown on top of a cooldown. That’s fun isn’t it???

    We all agreed that nurses addons were too strong but the devs outright lied about just changing her addons, that’s why we were upset.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    I said that in a reply here.

    I am among those that thought the rework should have been directed at the addons alone. Though Nurse isn't unplayable imo

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    Yes but this doesn't mean the killer is coming your way, only that he is able to see you. This aside and it becomes a regular game of DBD and Object is still a wasted perk slot.

  • Lanterns
    Lanterns Member Posts: 83

    Plenty of constructive criticism from the latest changes. The Devs ignored all of it, they had their mind set on blowing up ruin.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    Was there though. You have some. Don't get me wrong, but the Ruin changes isn't exactly unanimously badly received. You would have people who rather enjoyed this change for killer, because it opened up a good number of possibilities, with people not bothering to actively look for the hex

  • Lufanati
    Lufanati Member Posts: 198
    edited January 2020

    The fact that you included Pig in there just shows how out of touch you are. Any Pig that crawls around on the ground all game to avoid being spotted with OoO is gonna lose badly. Object is also one of huntress' greatest counters. You can see when she's winding up, you can see her when she's around large loops that she isn't fast enough to run, you can see where she's aiming, it negates her tiny terror radius, it counters her very heavily. Everyone who plays huntress knows this. Only a literal rank 20 will just stare at you and let you snipe them.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583
    edited January 2020

    You misinterpreted what I said.

    It's different in application. This is like saying you remain in Tier 1 Myers the whole game to avoid OoO. Or not going after the OoO as nurse, and instead go for someone else.

    It's a matter of how you use Pig's crouch. Obviously you're not gonna be crouched all game, but you can most certainly mind game object with the stealth mechanic.

    Your misinterpretation is not evidence of me being "out of touch" at all.

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    I wrote a thing on bug fixes before.

    They're not as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Some bugs are easier to fix than others.

    If you had to make a priority list on what bugs you should focus on it would probably look like this (Descending)

    -Perks

    -Killer Powers

    -Items/addons

    -Large Visual bugs / Map bugs

    -Sound

    -Minor bugs


    Some of the things you have mentioned are far and few in between. Nurse can't be played on a map? Uh, where? Why? Because she struggles a lot on it? That could be said on any killer. Myers Stalk bug is one that doesn't happen often, so it's hard to find, it's not a common bug. The problem might not even lie with Myers, but portions of the map. Sound bugs and visual bugs are amongst the hardest to resolve, look it up. (This was also why it took them a while to fix the basement hook bug that perma crippled survivors).

    Behavior does not have a large development team. Debugging is more of a side thing that maybe one or two people focus on here and there. But the team has a project, they work on it, then immediately jump to the next.

    People were pissed because their main crutch was changed. The large portion of the negative feedback was extremely toxic. Yet, you still had people on the killer side that were quite satisfied with the new update. Behavior does listen to it's community, but the community can be pretty demanding

  • Aura_babyy
    Aura_babyy Member Posts: 583

    I never said the Devs were perfect. It was one of my main points that they should attempt on improving how they communicate with the playerbase

  • ddubuckyee_user
    ddubuckyee_user Member Posts: 178

    Potato chips

  • Lufanati
    Lufanati Member Posts: 198

    It's pretty worthless in that application. They're going to know exactly where you crouched down, and just leave the loop. If you have video tape or straps you might catch them at the next one though.

  • Calabrum
    Calabrum Member Posts: 102

    Correct, Freddy had the highest kill rate of over 70% I believe.

  • BaldursGate2
    BaldursGate2 Member Posts: 994

    They only balanced the balance landing perk for survivors, what provided an unlimited amount fo speedburst in certain maps. And instaheal was really ridicoulus.

  • Endstille
    Endstille Member Posts: 2,246

    So perks over powers yeah? Okay yeah sure dude, while a survivor can play just fine even when a perk doesn't work we should give higher priority to the perk. I mean ######### that ######### that a killer can not use his power, have to fix crutches before we like basic stuff of the game.

    Why should I care how challenging/easy it is to fix some bug? Why would I care about that? It is their job that the product they sell works, I honestly do not see any reason why me or anybody else should care about it whether it was super easy or super hard to fix. I mean pls explain me why i should care about it.

    I also like that you put sound at the bottom of the list, seems like it is at the bottom of the list for bhvr as well. I mean as long as only killer suffer from it, i mean imagine tr gone for all killers... that probably take a few days and it is fixed. Killers? well #########'em that they can not hear footsteps/breathing/moaning whatever.

    I said nurse could not be played on "sanctum of wrath" and not struggle so spare me your assumption about killers struggling in general due to god awful designed maps. The entire map basicly was a deadzone, if you do not know what it is, look it up. She was reduced to a 97% killer on that map, check the bugsection nmcke did explain it in full length.

    I have to wonder why you do not answer to the part of ruin being used in 45% of games and that the majority of games were played without ruin? I mean it baffles me, they make the announcement (not giving a ######### about killers at all, their perspective and everything) a week later they state something about being able to gather data for gen speeds without ruin cause it was used so much. It is strange right? Majority of games is played with ruin, yet we need to remove the perk in order to get good data. Okay what about toolboxes and the other perks messing up the data about gen speeds? How come they do not show up, fyi i dont care whether it is about prove thyself or dying light/thanatophobia??? I mean they do affect gen times too, yet this is not a problem quite odd but ok.

    Crutch? Since when is ruin a crutch kiddo? Even with ruin up the gates could be easily powered within 5minutes. So how was it a crutch? Please explain that part to me. I assume the only people calling it a crutch are the ones who are as bad as people with 10hrs in the game unable to hit a great skillcheck. Who exactly on the killer side was positive about this ruin change? Even people who argued for nerfs of specific killers like scottjund told behaviour what a dumb change this was in a very polite and constructive way. The only people i see "on the killerside" posting that it is a good change were people in disguise, suddenly everywhere some godlike killers did pop up ( oh i play doc in red ranks and always 4k like 99,999999% of my games cause all killers totally super op). LuL who believes those people? Who can take this garbage serious when you do not see a single doc in months in red ranks prior to the "rework". People argueing so borderline dumb that only a newbie can not see the bullshit they spill.

    Meanwhile for reality we have survivor mains who asked if bhvr is sure about the ruin nerf, making videos to show how dumb it is. Not just talking garbage on the forums about crutches and how op all killers are but actually just playing games and finishing them ~5-6 minutes while not even gen rushing.

    The community can be demanding yeah true, maybe it would not be so demanding if they actually treated people equally. Actually care about veterans of the game and not made-up newbie problems and adress the ######### that they really keep them from playing the game you know like when you check steam/metacritic, people drop the game not because of op perks but other check it yourself i do not bother to call them out on the bullshit anymore.