To the Killer mains and others alike.
Comments
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So perks over powers yeah? Okay yeah sure dude, while a survivor can play just fine even when a perk doesn't work we should give higher priority to the perk. I mean ######### that ######### that a killer can not use his power, have to fix crutches before we like basic stuff of the game.
Why should I care how challenging/easy it is to fix some bug? Why would I care about that? It is their job that the product they sell works, I honestly do not see any reason why me or anybody else should care about it whether it was super easy or super hard to fix. I mean pls explain me why i should care about it.
I also like that you put sound at the bottom of the list, seems like it is at the bottom of the list for bhvr as well. I mean as long as only killer suffer from it, i mean imagine tr gone for all killers... that probably take a few days and it is fixed. Killers? well #########'em that they can not hear footsteps/breathing/moaning whatever.
I said nurse could not be played on "sanctum of wrath" and not struggle so spare me your assumption about killers struggling in general due to god awful designed maps. The entire map basicly was a deadzone, if you do not know what it is, look it up. She was reduced to a 97% killer on that map, check the bugsection nmcke did explain it in full length.
I have to wonder why you do not answer to the part of ruin being used in 45% of games and that the majority of games were played without ruin? I mean it baffles me, they make the announcement (not giving a ######### about killers at all, their perspective and everything) a week later they state something about being able to gather data for gen speeds without ruin cause it was used so much. It is strange right? Majority of games is played with ruin, yet we need to remove the perk in order to get good data. Okay what about toolboxes and the other perks messing up the data about gen speeds? How come they do not show up, fyi i dont care whether it is about prove thyself or dying light/thanatophobia??? I mean they do affect gen times too, yet this is not a problem quite odd but ok.
Crutch? Since when is ruin a crutch kiddo? Even with ruin up the gates could be easily powered within 5minutes. So how was it a crutch? Please explain that part to me. I assume the only people calling it a crutch are the ones who are as bad as people with 10hrs in the game unable to hit a great skillcheck. Who exactly on the killer side was positive about this ruin change? Even people who argued for nerfs of specific killers like scottjund told behaviour what a dumb change this was in a very polite and constructive way. The only people i see "on the killerside" posting that it is a good change were people in disguise, suddenly everywhere some godlike killers did pop up ( oh i play doc in red ranks and always 4k like 99,999999% of my games cause all killers totally super op). LuL who believes those people? Who can take this garbage serious when you do not see a single doc in months in red ranks prior to the "rework". People argueing so borderline dumb that only a newbie can not see the bullshit they spill.
Meanwhile for reality we have survivor mains who asked if bhvr is sure about the ruin nerf, making videos to show how dumb it is. Not just talking garbage on the forums about crutches and how op all killers are but actually just playing games and finishing them ~5-6 minutes while not even gen rushing.
The community can be demanding yeah true, maybe it would not be so demanding if they actually treated people equally. Actually care about veterans of the game and not made-up newbie problems and adress the ######### that they really keep them from playing the game you know like when you check steam/metacritic, people drop the game not because of op perks but other check it yourself i do not bother to call them out on the bullshit anymore.
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Yeah perks over powers sadly. This isnt just for survivor perks though, Killer perks too sometimes will get buggy and get the ye older priority fix. The DS bug is killer specific, which brings me to my next point.
You SHOULD care how challenging bug fixing is. But only enough to know how quick you can expect a patch for it. It will save you the wave of "Why hasn't BHVR patched this bug... but fixed this one?" The world becomes a lot bigger for you once you accept it. And yeah sadly sound is at the bottom of the list because it is difficult, and I think for a game that isn't entirely relied on sound, though being a core mechanic, some people don't even seem to need it at all. There are deaf players that play this game, and they have their way of coping. Though this minority group is most likely all survivor. And sound bugs go both for survivors and killers. Killers aren't the only ones having sound bugs at the moment.
And I really ponder why people say the devs don't give a cahoot about killers. Recent events may look like it,but come on man. If that was true then why don't we have fast vaults from any angle, instant blinds, BNPs that finish a gen within a second, Double Windowed 1 door Killer Shacks, Instant heals, DS with a skill check half size of the circle and no hook required AND no timer, longer killer grab, mori, and hook animations, Hit and Heal MoM, do I need to keep listing? So we're just gonna ignore these ^? And just actively complain that Behaviur only caters to survivors?
As for the Ruin percentages, you wanna ask about the 55%. Sure, let me give you a thesis. Ruin, is seen 45% of all games. This perk is also most common in green ranks all the way down to red. This would leave you with Yellow and Gray ranks. These ranks are fairly known to be the noobie ranks. In almost all of these, ruin is not present. My first encounter with Ruin was at rank 14, for my GF it was at 15 ( to give some examples, not to represent the actual numbers). So we can assume that at least 15 ~ 20% of the games are from killers who do not own Ruin for the killers they play. I'm gonna put aside a 5% here as an independent variable, because I obviously lack a lot of information, I do not have access to BHVR's stats. The remaining percentage are from games across all ranks, including red and below, are games from killers who do own Ruin, but simply not use it. There are also some mid rank killers who do not own Ruin. And these Killers do exist in the red ranks, and they are definitely good players. Yes, sometimes they get destroyed, but this goes hand in hand with survivors as well.
And for the record "kiddo", Ruin is most certainly a crutch perk, just as DS is for Survivors. Neither side needs these perks to win matches. And the Killers who truly needed it the most are the ones who need a rework/buff. Particularly clown.
I share in the opinion that Gen times are definitely busted, and I'm not certain entirely why they cant just look at the data from the games without Ruin and make a conclusion, unless these games were truly mostly in the gray and yellow ranks, in which case you can raise the first number I gave.
As for the "fake Killers in disguise" bit. How do you know that? That's a larger assumption than saying the earth is flat. There are people here who can agree the Ruin change is a more positive change to shake up the game a bit, and give it a slight increase in Variety. I love NOED because it's such a surprise perk that is also a hit or miss, I have fun games going against it, and playing with it. Scott said that this change seemed a bit more so introduced a bit early to what could have potentially been a lot of map fixes and reworks that came along with it.
The newbie problems are certainly not made up. Ruin *still* punishes newer survivors, harder skill check or not. A community does not get less demanding, it's practically impossible, doesn't matter about how BHVR treats people. Would there be less demanding? Maybe, but you really gotta look at some things first. You give to people and they want more. As a community grows, so does the demanding. I'm not sure if it was you, but someone made a comparison to how Riot treats their League players and apparently hears them out pretty well. The demanding of a community that is the league community is the highest a video game company ever had. Why is that? Well they just simply have the most players on it, easy.
Do tell me if some of these points I made make sense, or if you need me to elaborate more. Me personally though, I already see the upcoming nerfs for survivors, as well as reworks to maps like Coldwind, and Mear Packing.
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As much as I don't like that that is pretty much Pig's only counter to it truly. The ways to do it still exist. I once proposed that Insidious was changed to temporarily grant the undetectable status after a hook. Idk tho I think people didnt like this?
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Have you ever had cookies from subway? they're so good!
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Those cookies are amazing. I don't know how they can get them to be a perfect amount of soft
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Nah I haven't even been to subway
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From what i saw it was the headless chickens running around looking for the totem at all costs that snowballed the game in the killers' favor. With ruin still up and two on hooks with 1 gen done his job was done and from then on it was just a matter of waiting it out for the 4k.
For me, ruin sucked in the lower ranks but as a killer i also know that it could be necessary on some maps/killers who have no mobility. I was a fatherless child, if you know what i mean, and ran both dying light and ruin. Ruin would go in the first 30 seconds in 9/10 games. They valued my ruin so little that it did not get a spot at all and was immediately found. But sometimes i would get lucky and get a few stacks of dying by the time ruin went so i had a fallback to slow down the remaining game. As freddy i hooked and then teleported right away to chase off gens using bbq. If i saw nobody on bbq i would still teleport and kick gens
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Another thread to add to the hundred or so like it. Nothing new here. *eyeroll*
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Nah I absolutely shoudln't bugfixes in other games do not take several months to be fixed. No matter which game I play it is odd that you defend bhvr with saying it is difficult to do so. Yeah bhvr has the only superspecial difficult to bugfix game, ok seems legit. This just leads to another conclusion, either they are incompetent or do not have the qualified manpower in order to do so.
Why don't we have this stuff? Maybe cause people explained to these devs how broken this garbage was and it took a long amount of time until they did something about it. Back then the game was in their minds perfectly fine and balanced.
BHVR was told that MoM was completely broken, they released it anyway. It was a bait to make easy money, otherwise the ash dlc would not have sold as well as it did. Same with legion, look where legion is now but they were stubborn i guess. These dlcs are good examples to get rid off this whole "oh they do care" and they know what is good.
I don't think ruin was a crutch, agree to disagree to me NOED is a crutch. I don't see anything good that comes from talking about speculations all we do know is 80% red rank usage ( i wonder what red rank means in this since red rank for killrate meant red ranked killers) and 45% across the board.
Because the people spill bs that just isn't true. I haven't seen a doc for months in red ranks games and other people i talk to agreed. Yet somehow out of nowhere the people came that state killer totally op, i play doc ez pz 4k. Sorry any decent players knows that these stories are just made up. They are the ones bringing in the theory about the earth being flat not me, the question is why many people want to believe them.
As I said regarding newbie problems, take a look at steam/metacritic. Check out why people do drop the game and it is because bugs do not get fixed, dlc/paywall, bad optimization and camping/tunneling killers (this is by far the biggest reason). As you have seen what the reaction was to the ruin nerf, experienced survivors are not bugged by it as they can deal with camping/tunneling the one who do suffer from it are the people that are inexperienced and do not have the perks (bt/ds) or the gameplay knowledge how to deal with it and are bad at loooping. Increase in gamepace leads to more tunneling in order to snowball from that... tell me who do you think is the weakest player? New players. It is dumb and counter productive. How many people will stick around after the next free weekend? ...
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You know the balancing guy of bHVR actually thinks that in average it takes two minutes for survivors to get 2 gens done. ; If you want to discuss a problem: That is the problem you should be discussing.
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T1 Myers is really effective on some maps even against SWF.
Stop complaining about people playing with friends, that's just a sad way to live life.
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Nurse and Spirit were the killer's tools for countering maximum try hard SWF groups were/still are not only capable of fighting on equal terms with an optimal killer but even manage to beat them as well.. By performing nerfs to appease solo survivors they're saying it's fine for the killers to suffer so the survivors can enjoy the game more.
The excuse that Ruin is inconsistent is exactly that, an excuse. Just because it didn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's ok to take it away. The biggest reason for outrage was because their real reason for removing it was because of the negative effect it had on newer players. Because it prompted new players to learn a challenging aspect to the game it wasn't fair, so without any regard to high tier play they scrapped it. And yes, I consider Ruin as having been removed entirely because the mangled leftovers they gave use can't even be considered a perk outside of its combo with surveillance.
We know what they're going to do, that's why we're pissed. Their entire stream was them specifically telling us that they aren't patching/balancing anything in return for the Ruin nerf. They're not counter balancing survivor either. They stated that what they currently have/the direction this patch is leading the game into is what they want. The only POTENTIAL changes they said might happen is a toolbox rework and map reworks, both of which are vague IDEAS they mentioned and made no specific promises on.
The devs are survivor biased, and this last argument you made has nothing to do with them not being biased. The only thing you talked about was how a couple devs conduct themselves when commenting on posts. What does anything you said have to do with balance decisions favoring survivors?
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Again, company sizes differ from other games. To me BHVR is a small newer company who have a lack of manpower if not inexperience. The speeds for this game's bug fixes and development do match that of a small game company. To give you reference, Battlestate Games has about the same dev and bug fix speeds, because they are simply a smaller team. If 3 people are in charge of bug fixing as well as other things, that's 3 people who have to investigate every bug and report in the bug section of the forums. What about sick days or PTO? These people have lives, it's not about being incompetent, it's just an obvious lack of manpower, or just inexperience. But what do I know, I don't work for them, and no one knows what goes on in their offices.
As for NOED, Yeah it could be a crutch to some people, but it's such a hit or miss hex that is it really end of the day?
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haha you did a funny!
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I mean, it's hard to ignore all of the discussions of people saying the game is boring now, and we're talking about both sides.
Survivors and Killers are complaining alike, and you even got survivors who admit that they purposely don't do generators at the end just so they can keep game going longer.
That says something about this mid chapter update. Don't you think?
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Nothing new. Same stuff happened when DS was nerfed
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My bad Aura I read the first line of each point and thought this was another killer main rant. My apologies. :)
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Apology is very accepted.
I guess if you do that it is a killer main rant just like the others 🤔
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Some of us want balance. I apologise if you enjoy being abused. Not all of us are in to it.
Post edited by TunnelVision on0 -
Blaming SWF for imbalances is not how you address the issues they are posing for people
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I get it, you have your opinion, i have mine.
If you don't like it, stop reading it.
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Careful bud you're gonna be called out as a fake killer main in disguise!
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SWF have comms, solo don't.
You see solo get dominated and SWF stand more of a chance.
Deal with it
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Well... how about that: you're definitely a clown main and what you're saying is to stick to your mains and stop complaining that you can't do as good with other killers. If you don't wanna suck at a particular killer you have to play him more than others.
That's the same argument some people use for a nurse. She's actually OP, you see, but you have to work your ass off practicing her to have a CHANCE. Not the strongest argument, to be fair.
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"- Actually, Ruin was mostly complained about by both sides in amounts that are almost parallel to one another. ... " @Aura_babyy
Yes it is true it was complained about by more than just Survivor Mains. However, the notes on the changes explained why BHVR changed it. Bringing in other reasons means nothing in the context of why BHVR made the change. The change was targeted toward newer, less skilled Survivors. This is in writing and is available to read. Stating otherwise is incorrect and disingenuous.
Anyway, can you stop with this "us vs. them" crap? You may have made some decent points but none of it matters when you are doing it in a condescending, dismissive manner.
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I play solo and confirm i don't get dominated?
What am i supposed to be dealing with?
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Experiences are subjective.
Most of the time I and others I watch get dominated in solo most of the time. Mostly because idiots are in red ranks that don't belong there.
That's why people stick to SWF. Because there are red rank survivors that play like rank 16s
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Just because you might have say thousands off hours in this game and spent ages learning how to become a good killer doesn't mean the person next to you is the same, someone could off just started playing killer and was using ruin to get a good start to the match, some killers needed ruin more then other ones.
But i guess it's fine because you have learnt how to play with out ruin but new killers or people still learning who cares about them? we know the devs don't as they want to look at other slowdown perks but lets nerf ruin and let 4 survivors bring in a toolbox vs a new killer i think we all see how that's going to end.
Want to try a new killer and start to learn how to play with them to bad better stick to the killers you know and what perks work best with them, with ruin nerfed you don't have any time at the start to get going, set traps if need be or make it to other side off map. But hey even the devs said let the survivors get the 2 gens on the other side off the map.
Lets see the devs nerf DS, DH, BT and Adrenaline as bad as they did to ruin and then you tell survivors then same thing?
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This is the best cookie
Anyone who disagrees is an entitled survivors main
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Anyone who thinks you can no brain your way to a 4k every game with Nurse and addons (like old omega blink etc.) have no real basis for their argument and have clearly never played against good players using a killer they don't play.
As Nurse you LITERALLY CANNOT GET FREE KILLS if you have not learned her, and even after that you will only get easy hits against braindead potatoes who REFUSE to learn how to properly counter her. And that's the reason her counter is now running in a straight line, because of people like you.
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That last part pretty much sums it up players will have to relearn killers and what combo of perks work now (players will have to do it again because the devs want to look at other slow down perks and nerf them) and in the process lose matches, depip, get gen rushed etc but that's fine.
Yet ruin got nerfed so survivors didn't have to learn how to deal with ruin and make there game more fun and easy, so it's alright for killers to have to learn/relearn things and in the process lose matches etc but survivors get handed a free pass from the devs.
"It’s unreasonable to expect a perk (whether that is Ruin or any other perk) to reduce the games difficulty against survivors to a point that a player doesn’t bother to continue trying to improve how to play better."
Even that part survivors no longer have to improve on how to do gens because one off the things that made it harder for them got taken out off the game.
It's fine to say one side has to learn things like the DR rework as you have to learn how to use his skills and when to use them, but with a big change like ruin that affects a lot more why should killers just keep getting a loss over and over while they try new combos off perks etc with no downside to the survivors.
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old ruin = while killer is chasing one person to down them then hook them ruin slowed down gen speed allowing killer to hook survivor and find another one sounds like it compliments the strategy off hooking a survivor which is the killers job.
new ruin = soon as a survivor sees a killer near them they hop off the gen and ruin kicks in so killer no longer has to kick it, works well with killers like Freddy and DR as you can fake going to a gen to get them off it or shock them.
Based on what you said the new ruin is taking the role of making gen repair difficult with out the killer really needing to be proactively involved in it as killers can no longer kick gens while ruin is up.
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Ruin didn't need to be changed for killers to learn when to break off a chase that is something you learn the more you play same as survivors learning where to run to next to loop the killer.
How is it healthier when you have the devs saying if its a big map let the survivors have the 2 gens on the other side and now gens got put into easy mode, it might off been if along with the ruin nerf they adjusted toolboxes or even what a lot off people said not make it a hex, if it was a non hex perk then yes it would be healthier as it would off meant both sides having to work to win the match.
With the other nerf's to slow down perks coming they are only making it healthy for survivors what are they going to do drop PGTW down to 10% as 25% is to much?
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But will the nerf billy? Fingers crossed.
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My point was, exactly the fact that you play one killer the most, very good with him, and use that experience to make the point, invalidates your opinion as "average player". You're not an average player at this point and can't talk for one. That's devs response to killers with ruin change (only strong players didn't have issue with it, and people used it as a crutch against strong players), and that was devs response when they were asked about "overused survivor perks" (only strong players constantly rely on widely known "band aid" perks, and on average has an acceptable use rate).
I had no problem with ruin as survivor in rank 10 already, and it seemed nobody really did since I've managed to get up in ranking that high as solo. And I'm also a rank one killer, so I know that you don't really need it to get there, but it doesn't mean that's the same for everybody, because of how bad red rank survivor ques are. Nobody wants to play the killer that much (or that good?).
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I think it's that mentality that made the perk so popular.
When people first used the perk, they must have been like "hey this slows people down pretty nicely on its own." Then they kinda just relied on the perk to do most of the slowdown for them and kinda abandoned learning to apply pressure properly imo.
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