How often do you feel you actually outplayed opponents of equal skill?
To both killer and survivors, and those of us that play both. (Everyone should play both at some point though.)
I would say this more from a killers perspective, and at all ranks (although with MM as it is, rank is kind of meaningless rn)
But how often do you 4k, or escape, and feel that you earned it? I would probably say I 3 or 4k 80% of games. However I rarely feel like they are close games, or that were "fun for both sides"
At red ranks, there is normally at least 1 survivor that dosnt know how to loop and use pallets properly, don't know how to run gyms and have no clue what pallets are safe or unsafe and most will make some sort of mistakes. This dosnt feel rewarding to win.
(Ranging from slip ups getting me a hit, to just being complete potatoes) If I was to go back over every kill I have (And ngl, its in the thousands.) most are directly down to the survivors doing the wrong thing.
In a game where survivors don't make mistakes, I lose, almost 100% of the time.
If a game ends in a 2k (the stated aim) it feels like a loss, gens get done, little pressure is applied, and the game is in the survivors hand. The games I win, often feel like im just steamrolling.
Close games do happen, but t least in my experience, things are such feast or famine, that the overall global stats must be skewed so heavily by the majority of bad survivor players.
Anyone else feel this way?
Comments
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This type of mentality has always puzzled me coming from Killer players. "Survivors are blatantly OP" but I typically wipe the team out "cause they are potatoes." But clearly the game needs balanced for that 1/50 match that is a super sweaty, perfected team that I'll go against. But boy do I curb stomp 49/50 matches. And if I don't 4K, It's not a win to me cause they didn't outplay me. And if I do 4K, it's only cause the Survivors suck.
As Killer, I'm happy if I got many hooks through the match. If I'm snowballing too hard, I'll spare people for 2nd or 3rd chances. It does suck if I get like 1-3 hooks in the entirety of a match, I consider that a depressing defeat. But if I hooked everyone twice and the end result is varied depending on me sparing or not, I typically consider it a win. I do hate sparing say a Jane twice for her to escape in the end and she wants to teabag me. Like come on girl, you would of been dead half way into the match, but I wanted to give you a chance to play more and you do this to me? :<
Survivor. I solo play, so I mostly want to escape. I don't really care about pips. As a solo player, I probably die 9/10 times. It's not very rewarding. Multiple times I make a save near end game or get NOED'd and abandoned cause I'm a solo. (many SWF groups won't risk themselves for you) But if I ended up saving someone with my death, it typically feels good enough. Too bad most games end up going to crap before that.
At least as a Killer, I never spend most of my match on a hook cause I'm going against a hard camper/tunneler where 95% of my game play will be on a hook. Seriously, there is a reason Survivors hate that play style with a passion.
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All the time, every mindgame is 50%. It all comes up if you guess correctly first couple of times and then you can start reading your opponent.
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I don't think anyone is of "equal" skill. If I lose, they were better. If win, they were worse. Pretty simple. No one will ever be your perfect equal.
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I don't feel outplayed as killer when I face survivors that just run from safe pallet to safe pallet.
While it's true that some of them will try and pull off skillful loops, at the end of the day any survivor can just throw down a safe pallet, which forces the killer to break it.
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A lot of the time, most of the time even.
But keep in mind I'm a person that don't view plays aided by perks as "undeserved" or anything like that. If someone gets away because of DS or gets a kill because of NOED, they simply used something in the game to their advantage.
It's completely irrelevant if I feel whatever was involved should be changed, if they hard camped 1 survivor and got another with NOED or they used DS aggressively instead of anti-tunnel. It's how it works in the game at the moment and in my opinion it's scrubby to think "They didn't really beat me!" for reason like that.
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I'm not saying survivors are OP, if im 4king 80% of games, im doing fine tbh even after the Ruin nerf, my point was that it dosnt feel balanced. If anything the skill gap between good and bad survivors needs to be brought closer together somehow. If i 4k a team that play like rank 20's, its not fun. Games that feel genuinely close are too rare.
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99% of the time.
You'll always hear DC complaints on here, but very few DC from my matches.
AFKs are 20 times as rare, and people trying to work with me is 5 times as rare as AFKs.
So generally, they try their best, and as long as they do that, if i win, it'll feel earned.
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I prefer them shaking me in a chase or someone else causing me to get distracted over the Nea hopping through the same 5 windows that spawned close to each other any day of the week. I can agree there can be aggravating ways for a Survivor to "outplay" you.
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i mean... depends on how often i actually go against a survivor with decent skill. its hard to come by after the ranking changes.
i feel like i 4k (or 3k with a hatch escape) about 95% of my games. played about 10 hrs yesterday and only had 1 time where all 4 escaped.
i dont think of "how often" as a match though. i think of it case by case. like someone can outplay me allll game but i still manage to get them. thats not me really outplaying them, just as a hatch escape isnt them outplaying me.
jukes, loops, mind games, reads at pallet, etc. thats where i think about if i outplayed them or not.
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Depends on what's happening. If someone outmind games me then I absolutely say something like "damn nice swing." Or, something like "Oh ######### what a god." But, a lot of aspects of DBD aren't skill based or they require low skill. Stuff like playing safe pallet loops isn't impressive nor is getting a hit or down at an unsafe pallet. I'll give respect where it's earned.
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Never. The overwhelming majority of my games are wiping out survivors that don't know what they're doing. The amount of simple easily avoided mistakes they make add up so quickly that I can't keep count. Then I 4k totally aware that I only won because the survivors were bad.
On the off chance that I get a good group it's the opposite feeling. They make no mistakes for me to capitalize on and I can't do anything. Gens get done quickly with me having 2-3 hooks. If the majority of survivors had any clue how the game worked I'd never play.
There isn't ever any in between and hasn't been in a long time.
Atm the game isn't fulfilling because the outcome is decided in matchmaking. It's almost become a glorified slot machine.
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Often. MM may be busted but so is pipping for survivors. For me things balance out atm.
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I don't think on either side I ever go against opponents of equal skill level. As a survivor, I've actually been bored with how easy it is. As killer, the survivors I go against are almost always more experienced, with higher level perks, lower ranks, and some are definitely SWF.
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The only time I don't feel outplayed by a killer is if I vault a window or drop a pallet and still get hit. That's lag 100%.
As killer the only time I don't feel outplayed is if I whiff when I should have hit. The camera pulls towards some object and I miss even though I didn't want to move that way.
Other than these BS moments where the game screws me, I can accept when I've been beat. I'm generally very impressed with survivors that managed to lose me in a chase as I have pretty good tracking skills.
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I don't really feel like I've outplayed a killer of equal skill ever, because in that situation it's all just down to a mindgame, which has no relevance to skill
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As of today never. Because matchmaking is screwed and as a rank 9 killer I'm being pitted against ranks 4-1 quite regularly.
I was even doubting my ability that I got to rank 7 playing against survivors of a similar rank, that's a whole lot worse feeling now
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Never.
Feels like DbD is destroy or be destroyed.
I honestly can't remember the last time i had a match where i felt like the survivors and i were even.
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Even if everyone was exactly say rank 10 it wouldn't be fair, because the way ranks and pipping work the rank 10 survivors could still be far better than the killer player and still be an uneven match.
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True. But there's just as many if not more players that don't derank just for the sake of it
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*gets hit by DS while not tunneling because they ran in my face 50 seconds after they were unhooked*
Yep, outplayed.
Outperked, lol
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If I 4k it means there was a significant skill difference or they just played really bad that game.
Some games I do badly and it's because I messed up a lot, but most games I lose wasn't because I got outplayed but just because they knew how to do gens fast. All chases sub 15 seconds and still a loss.
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I feel like I get outplayed by map RNG or bad perk design than survivors themselves. Every game I'm able to get everyone downed through skill with mindgames and such, but of course the idiot with DS follows me. At least I'll just force them to use it since they have no choice most of the time.
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Every. Single. Match. Because I'm freaking amazing
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It's pretty rare that there's a really good even match, most of the time they either ram gens out instantly or mess around trying to loop and fail. The good matches where they don't finishe everything right away and I don't have to play dirty are amazing though, used to be best around rank 4 - 8 last year
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Item add ons and perk combinations rarely make me feel like someone gets outplayed when they lose. If I can mori a healthy survivor or wall hack to see a killer or survivor, things like that dont take skill to be good with. The balance issues arent the core game its the plethora of game changing perks and add ons that destroy it.
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I’m okay with it if there is no taunting or toxicity on both sides. It’s rare though. With ranking system I’m getting rank 16 killers as a rank 6 survivor and vice versa. That with a crappy team and it sucks.
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this is kind of a core issue with the game. it never really feels skill based, it's half luck and half abusing things that are oversights or just poorly designed.
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I only consider this when I perform a good mind game or guess the obscure spot where they've hidden while I'm killer. For the most part I don't consider outplays to be a thing if a map is stupidly one sided with tile spawns.
For example Wretched Shop - I don't really consider anyone is doing well if they run the double windows it's just a thing the killer basically has to ignore because if they commit they lose so much time. Anything like that I'll never consider skillful or an outplay and honestly those type of map areas make the game boring and uninteresting. Issue is that's like half the maps in the game.
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there are far more problems than just people de-ranking, that is just one of many.
the fact as killer you can lose with 0 or 1 kill like 30 games in a row, but still escape between 40-60% of your games as survivor, should indicate a massive problem with the game.
I think devs just look and see "Well John lost 10 games in a row as killer horribly, but jane got 10 4ks and they are the same rank, so that means the game is balanced" but in reality John is struggling, survivors are just curb stomping him, and Jane is doing very well for herself.
I actually had some damn good games against doctor, that felt close even though we all died today.
Then I swap over to killer and....not even a little bit, it's like a struggle and a fight to kill one survivor before they all escape. It's brutal, it's a miserable experience and an awful feeling as you can see their confidence in everything they do.
Should survivors really not be afraid of the killer at all? Like not even a little worried? Doesn't THAT indicate a problem? They tea bag, run around you because they don't feel you as even a threat. Clicking flashlights and whatever else, often chain stunning you and manipulating you because they are better at the game and they know it, and they want to bully you just because of that alone.
Yet a skill check, is frustrating enough to warrant a rework, but nothing is being done to actually make the killer role not a nightmare for anyone who isn't a master of the damn game.
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Assuming two things; 1. not a Spirit where the "mindgame" is a weighted coin toss and 2. i dont get dedicated server'd then quite often, most players at Red ranks shouldn't be there
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Well, considering the only players of "equal skill" I ever go against are survivors because of broken matchmaking as a survivor, I typically 'outplay' a lot of them.
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Rarely.
I get outplayed often, but it's usually because I am going up against someone that is more skilled than me.
This is more the case on the killer side. With matchmaking being so poor, I am often going against much lower rank survivors that I shouldn't be up against. During the few times that I am matched with players closer to my own rank, generally do much better, but that is rare.
As a survivor, I am usually matched with players, especially the killer, that are close to my rank. This can go either way. Often they can be more skilled than I am due to it being easier for survivors to rank up (ie. me being lower tier than I deserve), but other times it feels about equal in skill level. I like those latter games. I don't care if I don't survive. They earned the kill. I don't mind being outplayed by someone of similar skill level. On the other hand, I hate being bullied by those that have been playing much longer than I have.
I hope matchmaking gets fixed some day soon.
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Pretty much what the OP said, though it depends on the killer. I rarely feel like I outplayed opponents with M1 killers because I've had games go the other way. Once you have a frame of reference for how 4 good survivors run those killers, you look at them differently. At least I do.
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That's honestly the nature if this game. It's very momentum/snowball based
Close games are rare cause if one side starts to get going it's really hard to make a comeback
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There are catch-up mechanics - you're just socially pressured not to use them.
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What skill?
For a killer to be "outplayed" there needs to be some form of counterplay with the base mechanics of the game, and there isn't.
If a survivor knows the safe spots then the killer has already lost, everything is so safe in this game that it isn't funny.
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I just ran a killer for 4 gens on the new map by using that counter area because there is literally no way you can get a survivor there if they have resilience until the entity blocks the vault.
Thing is you just time it and on the last one jump to another pallet loop, then come back and do it again, I did this till 4 gens were done. It was very easy, took minimal skill, just seeing a very safe spot and abusing it.
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Rarely because I get 80% of the time potatos that cant fast vault. And 19% of the time sweaty swf that genrush. Since the new matchmaking more and more ppl make it too red ranks and that kinda sucks honestly.
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Rarely. I put a disgusting amount of hours into learning the game, all the loops, all the tips and tricks. Just to be good at Killer and to rank up. I rarely ever lose mind games, and even measured the distance of my attacks, speed, and falls on all my Killers. Then I lose to potato's who teabag and harass you in end game chat, because they got away when I grabbed them, or they were saved by their 4 "get out of jail free card" perks. Like nothing is more unfun than watching 4 people run around like chickens with their heads cut off, and then just get to make so many mistakes for free and because of servers and bugs you lose because of it.
I literally had a match where a Meg anytime she went into a chase, that was too hard on her computer, there would be a half a second. Then she would just be gone. No where to be seen, and her scratch marks disappeared. Probably because she just rubber-banded back behind me, and is now taking off on a different route with a second helping of Sprint burst.
After that I had a match where a David dropped a pallet on the same side as me, and as I went to take the hit. I got stunned, and he got to jump the pallet for free. Why does a pallet stun me, when there is a survivor between me and the pallet?
Then directly after that I tried to grab a David off a generator that was near completion. Half way through the grab animation it was straight up canceled, and the David ran away. WHILE MY KILLER WAS STILL RECOVERING FROM THE GRAB ANIMATION.
Don't even get me started on the stupid hook tech that THEY LITERALLY ADDED BACK IN, being able to crouch and hide behind people hanging on hook, or simply crouching next to a hook to avoid an attack, because for some reason the dev's think it's a good idea to have an auto aim feature that always prioritizes the hook, and hooked survivor over the one directly in front of you. It's not. That's a dumb idea.
Then when I play Survivor. I hold m1 on a few generators, get them done in no time because of the easy af skill check. If my team is doing bad, I got loop the killer through easy af safe loops. Then either take the hatch, or the exit gate. Depending on IF I got hit at all. Omg so boring. I'm not surprised Killers are leaving.
These were literally my first three matches today, and i'm already done playing Killer for the day. So good job, you just gave yourself that much of an even longer waiting time for Survivor games.
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Don't even get me started on the new Lery's map. UGH. It looks great, the attention to detail is amazing beyond belief. But they didn't need to turn the map into a second Iron Works. Before you actually needed skill to run the loops as survivor. Now it's just "Oh I know these god loops spawn here, so I will just run there first any time the killer even shows their face". Even then if ya'll run low on pallets (because you never run out of pallets - ever, that was and will always be a lie). You can always just run to the office, which is always conveniently near the center of the map, so you may have to take a hit, but you're gonna get there anyways.
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That’s why I stopped using NOED a long time ago. It never felt rewarding or like I outplayed the opponents. The kills just felt like freebies.
I fee more like I outplayed them with mindgames at loops. That’s probably why I find the weaker killers more fun ironically. Its harder to get a hit with a standard killer than say Spirit, Freddy or Hag who all have ways to either teleport or slow the survivor
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I dont have a clue yet DBD Devs, when I que up its either really good reds and purples or low level new guys that I crush.....How about you guys actually LISTEN to the community and fix this broke ass game...
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It has happened to me as a killer, but not really often, it's more of a bad matchmaking case OR when I'm playing Huntress, wich I'm not good at it btw so I end up missing a bunch of hatchets and losing (but I'm aware it's because I'm bad, not because they're good). If I knew how to run loops more correctly I could play her more efficiently. The other m1 killers I can play fairly good, but I'm really a non-sweaty killer so I barely ever slug or go against the person who just got unhooked; being nice, though, has cost me a few games; doesnt really bother me if I got all 4 juicy bbq stacks.
As a survivor, it depends. There's a few killers I dont know how to go against properly. A good hillbilly, for instance, can beat me up really fast. But most m1 killers I feel like a play against fairly decent. However, these days what has really getting me killed most of matches is bad teammates. Like people who go down almost instantly against a legion or a clown. Since the update I think I escaped once. I'm purple ranks and I dont feel like everyone should be this boosted in here (like running TOWARDS the killer after I unhooked them, even though they just saw the killer going on that direction). So not really outplayed, but mostly losing because its NOT a 1x1 game and doesnt matter how good you are, if one or all your teammates are bad, theres just so much you can do.
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All the time when I play Hag, you have to mind game and control the flow of survivors movements throughout the map. The number of red rank survivors that dont know how to deal with a hag and her traps is astounding. Then there is the odd match were I get an SWF that is well coordinated and know exactly how to deal with a hag and her traps.That's when you have to focus loopers onto hooks to pull off their gen players and start slugging/tradding hook savers or getting their less skilled loopers into chases if they are not playing immersed Claudette .Knowing the exact space to to place traps apart to teleport attack on cool down in a path the survivor has to run to either escape a chase or reach an objective/hooked survivor is necessary at high ranks. Getting d/c in first 30 seconds because you funneled a survivor into your traps spaced correctly is very satisfying.
But hags teleport attacks are currently bugged from patch 3.5.0 so ive been playing more Oni and Freddy since the patch. Mind gaming with Oni has really shown me that a good portion of red rank survivors are boosted. dont know how to loop, and have no spacial awareness. Ive been having a lot of fun just stopping mid loop at a high wall with Oni, waiting a second or two for the survivor to turn around and run right into me since they hardly pay attention to sounds. Oni is the largest most audible killer in game, and they just run right into him, oblivious of this angry large ass samurai.
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When I play nurse, spirit or huntress I feel like I can beat any survivors. Pig and Freddy to a degree. As for survivor I’ve been in so many games where the killer downs us pretty fast yet still looses the game because of one slightly long chase they have had with someone.
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Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't
and sometimes I will never know because matchmaking
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Ikr they call it toxic and meta...homie, I'm just tryna survive chill dog
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I always feel like I outplayed the other side when I tunnel a survivor off the hook with a morie or tbag the hatch and leave the game earlier with one or two other survivor friends by using a key. I'm just too skilled for them!
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I play Identity V somewhat actively, and the way it handles win conditions has rubbed off on me. One kill is a loss, two kills is a draw, and three or four is a win. Really simple, but it's just a shame that it's so hard against good teams to even secure what I'd class as a draw. If I win I can very rarely say it's because I outplayed the survivors, just because survivors are in many ways required to outplay themselves to fail at doing all five generators before they all die. Without Ruin it's become laughable to expect a gen or two not to go by your first hook, and if that doesn't happen, you can safely assume that the team has no idea how the game works.
And because of my experience as a killer main (clocking in at about 2400 hours of game time between both sides), the fun in playing survivor has kinda been sucked away. Either my team and I win because the gens fly by, and I feel bad for the killer and the stress they've likely endured, or we all die because one or two of my random teammates didn't know how to hold mouse 1 and occasionally hit space. It's just a series of eye rolls at this point because either way I don't feel any sense of pride as a survivor player.
PS. Ruin was never hard to counter. Either hit the skill checks properly like you have the innate capability to do, or go find the hex and break it. Same with NoEd. Hex perks are all complete jokes, and it's just sad that the only one worth a damn is now an even bigger joke.
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I either completely destroy the survivors or get absolutely destroyed by them...I can't remember the last time I've had a "competitive" game.
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