Dev's c'mon now... (Rant)
Dev's this whole "ruin change is better" is nonsense. I keep losing pips, I'm not red rank anymore and I'm sweating for 1 measly kill a game. I cant be everywhere at once. I'm not just gonna leave a chase to go find other people.
How bout this, ruins annoying to go against, so are infinites how bout you fix the maps instead of killing killers fun. I keep getting gen rushed no matter what build I do. I keep trying to have fun but I can't...not anymore. You've gone to far and changed to much from the game I love, the game I play every day, the game I have 1k hours in... I just dont see myself having fun unless I'm going against the killer. At least then I'll be on the side you actually care about.
I play both sides and both sides are just toxic everywhere now everywhere I see a camping bubba or just a game ago had 4 toolboxes.
It's not fun anymore. Just please take the killers side on one thing and change it back.
Comments
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Sabotage murdered, MOM murdered, Gen time increase, Gate time increase, better totems spawns on new maps, Hag buffs, Trapper buffs, Wraith buffs, Freddy reworked stronger, Doc reworked stronger, DS reworked, BT tinkered with, Exhaustion changes, BL nerfs, window blocking mechanic, less pallets, less safe loops, doors on Haddonfield on 2nd floor instead of windows, etc.
I'm tired of the same old "Devs never buff Killers and nerf Survivors" argument.
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You're naming things that were neccessary to actually make the game fun. But ruin wasn't necessary, people could do the skillchecks or find the totem. Now gens get popped within 2 min. Now how is that fair at all. Yes they do buff killers but not as good as survivors get it.
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So Survivor nerfs and Killer buffs are "necessary to actually make the game fun" but Killer nerfs aren't every necessary? I played old Stun on teleport Hag back in the day. Ruin was strong back then as well. Now that we have had about 2 years or solid Survivor nerfs... maybe some stuff that was strong back when Survivors were truly OP... are now OP themselves?
Also forgot L4D shirt changes, faster pick up animation for Killers, faster pallet break speed, moon offerings removed, insta heals nerfed, medkits altered, SC nerfs...
Killers have received a massive net buff over the years and Survivors a net nerf over the years. Anyone who ignores this is being extremely bias. Both sides require balancing. They always will. And that comes with BOTH nerfs and buffs.
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So many changes. And yet this game is not balanced. It's just been a lot worse in the past.
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I always try and use an example of weighing scales for balance. No amount of buffs or nerfs each side receives mean anything, it's the severity of the change that affects it. Let's use two examples:
Scenario 1 Brutal strength: Nerfed to 17%, nerfed to 15%, nerfed to 12%, nerfed to 10% (4 nerfs in total)
Scenario 2 Brutal strength: Nerfed to 10% (1 nerf)
Both have the same outcome, but scenario 1 had more nerfs so killer was affected way more, right? Wrong because either way it had the same outcome if it was only nerfed once in my examples. I know my scenarios wasn't the best but it doesn't matter what side received more nerfs, it's the significance of those nerfs that matter.
I'm also tired of seeing people comparing killer nerfs to survivor nerfs. You can keep listing all survivor nerfs but someone has for the most part an up to date list of all killer nerfs and all survivor nerfs on the Steam forums. Both sides have been nerfed but the last significant basekit survivor nerf was literally the removal of pallet vacuum which was really needed. The rest of the nerfs were on optional perks. Feel free to correct me, I'm not stubborn and will admit if I'm wrong and will apologize.
This goes for both sides, can we please stop saying "Well X side got nerfed more!!!! Devs are X biased" The amount of nerfs mean nothing, it's the significance of the nerfs.
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And that's why one's personal experience on either side of the playing field only means so much.
I got first hooked against a Billy after running him for a bit. Left on hook for awhile. Unhooked as he came back (Billys always do) and redowned there and rehooked. First match of the day on Survivor side... and it was just a massive waste of time. I don't want to join a game to be on a hook for my game play. Only 1-2 gens done in the time it took for me to die.
Couple NOED deaths, but I prefer those over the former.
One escape against a Legion.
Before the update, NOED was a wasted slot for most Killers cause most solo groups don't make it that far. And hell yeah I'd get salty having repaired 3 gens on my own out of 4 and making multiple saves to die on first hook with 1 gen left to go as Kate teabags/flirts with the Killer for hatch. Good lord was I seeing that happen more and more, like people gave up on gen escapes and just tried to ######### it up to the Killer... and it worked. Just icky.
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" I keep losing pips, I'm not red rank anymore and I'm sweating for 1 measly kill a game."
This reads like that you were not good enough for Red Ranks to begin with.
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With the BS nerfs, it can't be ignored that the base speed of Killers breaking pallets were increased! So basically the core Killers across the board were buffed while the optional perk was nerfed. I mean, I'd take that as a buff overall since it made BS less mandatory.
Survivors don't get a lot of core nerfs cause they already are bare bones. They run, walk, vault, and M1. Survivors are basically all about their perks and that's why those (Sabotage, Mettle, Exhaustion perks, Selfcare, DS) get the nerfs instead of the base Survivors. Not much else to change on them while Killers have their special powers.
And even ignoring perks, items, and special abilities. Survivors had Gen time increased, Gate time increased, less pallets, EGT, and the window blocker. (is there more stagger on falls now as well?)
Killers got faster pallet breaks, faster gen kicks, and faster pick up animations.
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Hun. I think you're forgetting that this is an Asymmetrical game. Which means if there is 4 people against 1, its logical for the person by themselves to be more powerful than the 4. And honestly we can do the same thing you just did.
Nurse reworked, spirit nerfed, ruin nerfed, gen speed increase, instablind flashlights, borrowed time, dead hard (erases your mistakes), prove thyself, adrenaline... do i need to keep going?? All crutches and honestly us killer mains would be fine losing if we could have fun. But 3 gens popped in under 2 minutes isnt fair and fun
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It's called double standards because most people apparently play only 1 role or side in this game. The real truth is that killers still noobstomp bad or new solo survivors for their entitled 4K and with the old Ruin it was much worse. Ofc there are SWF teams but that will always be the minority. I wouldn't say the Ruin change was totally necessary but it got really boring because almost every killer had that training wheels perk. And ofc only survivors need to adapt, but when people cry like little kids because only 1 killer perk got changed then that's the end of the world.
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I totally agree. The community is blowing up over this. I personally think ruin has more potential, but a lot of people are arguing about it. It's one or the other though, the devs won't un-nerf it. Probably.
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I'll agree that some survivors received heavy nerfs and some of them I think went too far (MoM was too heavy of a nerf). My scenarios were just an example I could use to show that the amount of nerfs mean nothing.
As for the nerfs though, some of them NEEDED to happen otherwise survivor would be way too strong. I don't know why you're bringing up nerfs that needed to happen because if you watch old DbD videos you'd see why they were busted.
I'm going to go over some of the nerfs and why I think they were necessary.
Gen times: There are videos, and a lot of them, showing games ending in 4 minutes. At the time gen times needed to be increased but at the moment 80 seconds is good enough. Gen times are not an issue and the "killer cannot apply pressure" argument stems from mainly map sizes.
Gate time increase: The only valid complaint I see about this is when the gates spawn next to each other because there is no way that in 20 seconds you can open a gate with the killer patrolling both of them. 20 seconds with no skill checks and the distance between gates is good enough, the killer still needs a chance to stop them. Even still, killers get told to use perks if they complain so if you care about gate times then use Wake Up.
Less pallets: Alright I agree that some of the maps are completely killer sided in the regards to pallets but with double pallets one single survivor could waste way too much of the killer's time. I understand that pallets are the survivors only decent defense against killers but they reduced the amount of pallets due to how safe some of them were.
EGC: This was only made to prevent survivors from taking the game hostage. You can't blame the killers for this because some survivors that were increasingly salty took it upon themselves to take out their frustration on the killer by intentionally wasting his time to try and get them to DC forcing them to lose points. The only time the EGC is in the killer's favor is when both gates are close to each other which I've already stated that it's stupid and shouldn't be a thing.
Window blocker: This was completely necessary otherwise there would be far too many infinite loops with structures that contain windows. Nothing more to really say here.
Exhaustion perks: This was absolutely necessary because with how long you can loop the killer for it was totally unfair for survivors to just sprint burst in their face to the next loop and then the cycle continues.
Stagger: I'm not sure if they increased it so I cannot comment on this.
I'm hoping you're just stating these to prove a point that survivors get nerfed in the killer's favor too and not saying that they were stupid nerfs. Even if you're trying to prove a point then I have no clue why because no one is denying that the survivors get nerfed but what people do get frustrated about is the unnecessary nerfs to both sides.
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Yes sir or madam, I'm pointing out both sides get nerfs. Most of the Survivor nerfs were very much needed, some over done however.
Gates are just annoying in general since there are a handful of Killers who can easily patrol both of them even with a moderate distance between them. Then you get the side by side gate spawns and it's just awful even against less mobile killers let alone the high mobility one.
And the point is very much needed. Read the last sentence of the OP's post. There are so many users on here declaring the devs are in bed with Survivors and the Killers have suffered through nerf after nerf while Survivors get buffed right and left. And it's just dramatic bull. Both sides have received balancing over the years. And balancing is always nerfs and buffs. Not just one!
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I agree that some people overreact when they say "Survivors receive buffs left right and center". For some people, again not all, claim that the devs catered to the survivors in this update in particular because of how biased their post sounded. All of the changes were "For the survivors fun" yet no changes were made for the killers fun.
I try my best to not be biased and some people do have different opinions to me on either side but that is what makes us all human. No one thinks alike and I'm not going to state that anyone is a main of a certain side because they have varying opinions and I actually like to have discussions on here.
The gates do need looking at because you feel hopeless as a survivor when both gates spawn next to each other and hopefully no one says "Not another killer nerf!" because it's genuinely bad for survivors.
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Yes survivor nerfs and killer buffs were needed. You know why? Because of where the game started. That's the core of it. Consider the following, you have two men, one man has 1 million dollars, one man has 2 thousand dollars. You take 1 thousand from each man. Yes they both had the same amount of money taken from them, but the impact on their overall wealth is drastically different.
That's survivor and killer. Look at 3 years ago, what the state of the game was back then and tell me any number of things that were nerfed or removed from that time were unjustified. Meanwhile Killers have been at best power neutral to that time, and recently it's been power negative.
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Maybe your not good enough to be at red ranks. This patch is bringing out the worst of people in the community.
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Nurse Rework, Oni Nerf, Spirit Nerf, BT buff (with Legion nerfs), Trapper is still in a relatively poor state, just like Pig being nerfed roughly 8 times in a row... and now ruin's change.
See, I can do this too!
In all seriousness, survivors had a lot of advantages when the game initially came out. Hell, every window was open, Bloodlust didn't exist, Old Ruin didn't exist, and the killer shack had 2 windows, not a pallet and a window. And the momentum mechanic didn't exist, so it was really easy for a survivor to fast vault a window. Breaking pallets + gens took longer, and some maps were just bigger. That was busted. And the remnants of the old survivor strength still remains today, but the game is fairer due to the changes nerfing survivors.
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Do any of those changes remedy the core issue with the game?
Nope, didn't think so.
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It's fair because most good killers can actually control the gens. Personally, I think gen time is entirely fine. Its just gigantic maps that make the gen speed seem too little.
You won't see many good killers losing games without Ruin on small maps that are balanced.
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You mean things like sabotages being permanent that could make the game LITERALLY UNWINNABLE FOR THE KILLER.
Remember people did sabotage all hooks in the past making it so if people didn't go down near the basement/the killer not having BOTH iron grasp/agitation they couldn't hook anyone anymore and it was abused commonly by SWF for free wins.
Are you really defending that?
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No. But people like to pretend things haven't been nerfed on Survivor side. Sabotage is gutted, almost useless now. It went from godly to ant sized.
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I wouldn't call it a killer buff as its more or less removing an exploitable mechanic that should never have been in the game to begin with.
Same goes for the BNP nerfs as prenerf BNP let survivors get all 5 gens powered within the first min(People have timed) of the game no matter what the killer did if they played it properly. It being nerfed was more removing an exploit rather then buffing killers as well.
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Wouldn't Mori (they are the closest thing to old BNP alive in the game), instant hatchets, and instant down camping all fall under exploits as well then? You call BNP and old sabotage a exploit, but these things are also deal breakers.
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Here's one thing though: None of those can flatout make the game unwinnable just a lot harder.
Both pre-nerf sabotage and BNP can both pervent the killer from being able to win so they are exploits.
PS: There's a reason why I don't have keys on here and thats because they need 3 gens done before they can win the game for the survivors. Meaning the killer CAN STILL WIN against keys unlike the above 2.
Same logic for the keys applies to moris as they don't stop survivors from winning because they require a hook thus just simply removes 1 hook strike ultimately.
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Moris and instadowns are in no way comparable to instant gens and old sabo. The instadowns require some skill on the part of the killer and lead to a hook, of which the survivor still has to be downed another two times to be killed. Moris also require the killer to catch the survivor at least once.
Old sabo literally made the game unwinnable for killer, while bnps required no thought, only the ability to press two buttons to end the game. Most of these survivor “nerfs” are just fixes. Outside of MOM, I cannot think of any other survivor perks that have been nerfed (DS was a buff).
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Moris are still on par with BNPs. They dramatically speed up the game in favor of Killers and most use them in a way to tunnel out the players extremely fast. There is a reason a lot of the upset Killer mains on here called for Mori spam and it isn't cause it's something fair or skillful to use. Mori's still need nerfed. Keys I feel need a smaller nerf, but I don't think they are quite on par with Mori since you can have Mori's used a lot sooner in a match than a Key ever can be.
And that is with me failing a adept achievement earlier cause they used a key. So I know how frustrating keys can be, but Mori's are keys on steroids.
A Leatherface at a hooked Survivor holding his chainsaw up is not on par with what the devs really intended. They wanted there to be some hope to save a hooked survivor, Bubbas can completely shut this down in the same light as the old trap under their feet gimmick that got removed cause it went against the idea that all survivors could be saved. Bubba is literally a foot trap, except more dangerous as he can down multiple people. I feel Bubba's face camp is pretty on par with old Sabotage. Where the players have taken a literal game play element and bent it to be used in a fashion the devs did not plan.
And yes old Sabotage was busted. Granted "gen rush" wasn't as much as a issue cause you'd have people using Sabotage as well. It got extremely nerfed and is pretty much a way to throw most matches cause it may come in handy 1/50 times. It's better that it's in this state than what it was before though as those were dark times. Bubba can get "sabotaged" though, he is a failure of a concept as well.
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That only proves that you wasn't here when BNP and Sabo were a thing. You know that machinegun build didn't care how faster gens were done, if you could hook somebody in the basement it was pretty much gg for survivors. Same goes for sabo - you could pretty much slug everyone, plus almost everyone had Iron Grasp so it was relatively easy to get to the basement.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
You also forgot heal increase (coupled with Sloppy), bloodlust and fast vault mechanics.
And the number of pallets was not even halved. No more than a third of what was on maps still remains.
I'm not saying that most of those nerfs weren't necessary (heal time increases were though, it's so boring against Sloppy), but so many people on this forum complain how devs have been nerfing killers for all eternity, I wish devs made an official statement to disprove it once and for all.
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Funny I have no issue at rank 2 getting a 4k. Your crutch is gone you gotta adapt bro
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Bad killers =/= unbalanced game
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They always buffed killers without never addressing the real reason of our weakness. All they did to buff us was unneded. Since 2016 all they should have done was implement old Hex: Ruin in the killer's basekit, rather they nerfed it into the ground (and still a hex lmao). Rank 20 survivors cried since 2016 for ruin-skillchecks? Go to fix cars and phones in Friday the 13th then, skillchecks are for monkeys over there.
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Sorry to the OP, because I don't like calling people out on their skill level (especially when mine is so low), but I gotta agree with Aven_Fallen (and others saying the same thing). Ruin didn't really affect semi-competent survivors, once you got a couple 100 hours in you get used to it, maybe miss the first check in a game, but then you know it's there and concentrate a little more. The ranking system is supposed to place good killers with good survivors and mediocre killers with mediocre survivors, if you can't get any kills without ruin, then you should be losing ranks so that you go against survivors of a similar skill level to yourself. I struggle getting kills without it, but that's cos I'm not very good at killer, and so I shouldn't be in red ranks cos I'm simply not good enough to be there. If there are 20 ranks, then red ranks (1-5) should be reserved for the top 25% of killers and survs, there's no shame in not being in the top 25%, the majority of players (75% according to my pro maths skills) won't be that good, nothing wrong with that.
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The problem being, that there's no losing rank for easier matches to gain more skill. Sitting at Rank 13 atm, and I've faced more purples/reds than I have greens/yellows by a large margin.
Before you can cry "Nerf, buff, blah blah" you need to address matchmaking and make it so that Killers can face Survivors of equal skill. But hey, that's not really possible at all tbh, because deranking exists. When you're Rank 20 facing 4 Rank 20 Survivors with a full meta T3 loadout, obviously there is something else wrong with the game besides Perks getting nerfed.
Part of it is the playerbase, there will always be trolls and people who get a rush bullying anyone they can, but the matchmaking needs addressed before anything can be balanced. Without that, there's no real use because you're going to have matches all over the spectrum of imbalance and that will simply give you trash data with which to balance the game.
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If your nothing without ruin then you shouldn't have it.
You should be happy, insta heals are nerfed, and that's something from the survivors that's been taken away now it's the killers turn... So deal with it.
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Survivors now are self entitled. Have a plethora of perks to help them survive, and then have the nerve to BM at the end.
I miss the wraith when the game came out, hd was ridiculously fast by default and no one complained.
It's a game where there are 4 people Vs 1 killer. Killers need to be "OP" to make it a challenge for survivors to escape, not gen rushing 30 seconds in. Survivor mains need to get their head out of their arse and realise that survivors have a major advantage.
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Lmao instaheals were "nerfed" you have instant borrowed time and 16 or less second heal while running, not really a nerf. Considering instant borrowed time is the same thing except you get to mend now.
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Let's say for arguments sake that survivors have been nerfed more over the years then killers. Just because I can't be arsed to keep that argument going.
Ruin need was not needed I mostly only play survivor and I'm rank 1. Against a SWF at Purple ranks or higher without ruin it is PHYSICALLY impossible for anyone but a nurse to win. I can literally run a killer round for 2 mins and 3 gens are already gone and my swf group is working on 4th and 5th even if I go down we still have already garunteed a win.
It's not even fun for us survivors when the games are this easy
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I agree about the ruin thing at the end of the day killers rely on this way to much and for no good reason either yeah at red rank you may see 4 survivors with toolkits rushing u but let's say for argument sake you come across 4 without toolkits ruin can still easily be counted and in red ranks ruin normally is instant popped so it is completely useless regardless of 4 toolkits or not I'm glad they changed it as way to many people live on this perk which is so over hyped and all it does is yeah slow the game down abit
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maybe you should get good
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So you're telling us that a perk that was usually destroyed in the first minute of the match is the reason you're not a red rank anymore? I'm sorry but you've clearly never been in the red ranks, using ruin in the red ranks was basically wasting a perk slot
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