The Hillbilly Problem
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Wrong pig main, happy birthday to all pig mains btw.
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I never said I was in red ranks. And quite frankly, I don't want to be. Too much sweat for my more casual approach.
I'm rank 5 survivor, who plays with Reds quite a bit. Killer, though, I'm only in low green due to simply not putting in enough time, or care, with rank 8 at my all time high.
Not to mention the ONE photo of my gameplay that I have sent was imbalanced matchmaking where, at rank 7, I was paired with a 3, 19 and 20. Vs. a 2. In its own thread to question matchmaking
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Only bad players think Billy needs a nerf.
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When did I call for a nerf? Not this thread. Go back and actually read what I've said.
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Not you, but a select few in this thread.
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Billy is really loopable, and you can dodge any mid-range saws pretty easily. It takes alot of practice with billy to be curving around tight corners for chainsaw hits. Most billy's are just M1 killers who chainsaw around the map. You don't see nearly as many curve billies.
I find him very fun to play, and very fun to play against. Probably the most fun to play against strong killer out there, unlike nurse / freddy / spirit / hag where there isn't too too much input on your side. Maybe huntress would be more fun to play against if I wasn't getting nailed by hatchets when i'm completely behind walls because of the hitboxes.
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Billy 100% requires skill to play effectively. With Myers, I can usually manage a 3-4k. With Billy, it's a 0-2k with post-game messages telling me I should uninstall the game. If Hillbilly was easy to master, I wouldn't be doing more poorly with him than most other killers. And I have put some time into him, as he was the first killer I've played.
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This.
"Billy is so easy!" - Tell that to the people starting out as Billy who constantly miss chainsaws or hit walls, while being bullied by other new players on the survivor side.
"Billy needs a nerf!"
KEKW.
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I agree that hillbilly does require some skill, but if you dedicate time to practicing different magnitudes of turning sensitivity, you can learn him pretty quickly. As survivor, I find him frustrating, but not unfair by any means. What seems unfair to me is that survivors don't have any cool downs.
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It's funny how the Ruin nerf got everyone talking about map pressure, now we are going to talk about nerfing one of the few killers that can actually apply some good map pressure? Yeah, that's going to sit well with killers. 🙄
I have never played Billy. I have seen videos of him being played countless times, and played against him countless times. I see much better players than me struggle with his turns, so I imagine that it is even tougher for newer players. He's great at maps with a lot of open area, not so great on other maps.
As survivor, just stay out of his way. If you want to teabag him at a pallet, you do so at your own risk. 🙂
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It's ok, you'll never get a genuine response out of people about Hillbilly.
They've had the mantra of "most balanced killer in the game" drilled into them by an echo chamber of youtubers and twitcheys that steamroll with him every match, because they don't want easy mode nerfed.
They also want to feel good about themselves, so pretend that he takes some unfathomable skill to move your mouse to the left or right.
Any tool can jump on Hillbilly and perform far better than most other killers in the roster. His power provides too much advantage at 0 drawback. His add ons take away the small amount of skill requirement (easier steering) while also making him completely broken (insanely fast charge up.) He simply does not fit with the balance of every other killer where high mobility comes at some form of cost, usually lower base movement speed.
People like to get their right hand lubed up and say they can magically beat Billy by looping and that 110 speed would somehow kill him off. Sure, maybe a baby Billy. Every other killer that has the insane mobility he has moves at 110 does just fine, Hag doesn't get 100% of hits from teleports, and comparatively, all the other 115 speed killers are expected to get ALL their hits in basic chases and don't have cross map mobility on top of a one shot.
The extent of "outplaying" a Billy comes down to guessing the coin toss of 'does he go left or right?'
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Imagine not being able to dodge a killer with such little turning control, even with drift king Billy addons.
OOF.
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Amazingly the game should be balanced around all killers having the potential to pressure the map, rather than having one killer with near infinite map control making global changes impossible because he'd be even more broken with it.
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Yes, it would be nice to have killers having the ability to control maps equally, albeit by different methods, but that would take a lot of reworking, so we won't be seeing that anytime soon, if ever.
Also, as I mentioned, he is great on open maps, but not so great on other maps. There are a lot better killers for indoor maps, for example, where his turn radius is a huge problem.
You don't nerf a character because he/she is better in certain situations than others, especially when the talking points for the last week or so are how killers are supposed to apply map pressure on these huge maps. When the other problems get fixed, then they can look at him and evaluate. A nerf would just be another band-aid fix that ignores the larger problems.
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I found this quote from a wise person on these forums that explains the reality fairly well.
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Nice long rant, did not read 25% of it. You are just flat out wrong. There is nothing wrong with hillbilly and if you think he takes no skill then you clearly never played as hillbilly. I personally don't play him outside of earning his achievements but he is seriously one of the easier killers to play against.
Get Good
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You should't count that much on the describtion of the Killers. They say Legion is not easy... and Legion has the most braindead power in the game. Same goes to hag, they say she is a hard Killer but it is very easy to learn her. Just place traps on hooks and loops and that it, everyone who played more then 10 hours should know that loops are good trapping spots...
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That's not logic. The bigger the map, the bigger the difference between Billy and, let's say, Trapper.
If the devs would make maps smaller and killers would need to travel shorter distances between gens, hooks etc., the difference between Billy and Trapper would become less significant.
Smaller maps would not make Billy "more broken". Is Billy broken on Coal Tower, for example? Clearly not.
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Did I say "smaller maps" or global changes?
There've been countless discussions about secondary objective and such that would globally give killers more breathing room, which would give slower setup killers a bit more time work with, but would push Billy even further ahead if his mobility still allowed him to pressure both objectives. If Billy is brought in line with the same form of balance as every other killer, it makes universal changes much less polarising between the killer cast.
People complained about Ruin on high pressure killers so it got nerfed. Who does it hurt? The lower tier killers.
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My only problem with The Hillbilly is about his movement with the chainsaw. He can just go from one side of the map to the other, very fast, with no real cooldown period. This, paired with chilly, for example, makes him a very good killer, but no other killer can do that. Sure, Freddy can teleport to gens or Demo can use portals, but both of them have cooldowns and are tied to something, while Hillbilly is not. I would either shorten the distance he can travel with the chainsaw or put a cooldown on it, but the second option would actually impact his hits on a chase, so I think shorten the distance would be a better choice.
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You said you've been getting nothing but 4ks, but in 2 of those pictures someone escaped.
Also you're not playing against full red rank teams (except for the last picture). In some of those screenshots u even have rank 15+ survivors.
And... there is at least 1 DC in 2/5 of those games.
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Tell me how many counters to bbq are in the game? Literally potatoes telling billy where to go doesnt make him good and just survivors bad.
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Your main issue with billy is the entire point of billy.
He's expose to be the fast one out of combat while being looped into oblivion as a M1 killer as he can't realistically use his chain saw in most loops other then to break pallets slightly faster then normal.
If you remove his mobility he becomes a worse bubba.
If its put on a cooldown then he's a worse oni.
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'The extent of "outplaying" a Billy comes down to guessing the coin toss of 'does he go left or right?'
If you play well, you're not always going to be in this position. As long as there's a window nearby, I can often force a billy to M1 unless he's using bamboozle.
Either that or hide behind an object if he's trying to chainsaw long range. Unless the Billy plays well and forces me out of position, the only other time he'll chainsaw me is if he's literally revving up his chainsaw right behind me.
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I'm guessing you are posting this whilst at in a survivor queue like me?
Billy does most certainly not need a nerf and your suggestion that he is easy makes me wonder how much longer I'm going to sit in this queue whilst nobody quite rightly wants to play more nerfed killers
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No I didn't actually. It's just a thought that I've had for a while after versing Billies like PC Reds versed old Nurse and playing him myself multiple times to see what all the fuss is about.
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I can loop. I don't need to learn.
Can I loop like Noob, Monto or Odz? No. And I never will.
So stop coming to me with this logical falliacy. I am tired of hearing it. It has no constructive merit and is only used as a stalling tactic or something to derail serious conversation.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Ah okay hard to believe cause billy can be looped and there is nothing really special to it aside from checking on him, if he goes for a curve, mindgame so I really do not understand why you do have any issues with him.
Nobody needs to be any of the one you did mention in order to escape from billy in dbd. 🤷
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I think you are just a bad survivor. I challenged you earlier to down me with your hillbilly, which you declined. So clearly hillbilly is not as easy as you claim (and you know it). My challenge is still on the table. I can run most hillbillies easy specially if there are god loops
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Your opinion is not worth hearing if you can't even play at red ranks. US red ranks know how Hillbilly is overrated but potatoes that's the difference between red ranks and the rest.
Curving need a lot of skill and can be countered like pretty every of his technics. Yesterday i've played against a R1 Hillbilly who knows how to flick and everything and looped him into oblivion but my team was bad so we lost. So please as a matter respect don't talk about high level play when you're not yourself please.
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Alright, let's go KYF. I bet you I can juke your point-blank chainsaw more than 50% of the time.
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Ok, elitist.
I can play at red ranks, but I myself am not a red rank due to time limiations, and getting camped by bad green rank killers due to poor matchmaking.
Enough clarification? Are you contempt with continuing to tear apart the community with your toxic attitude? Feel good about yourself for "sHoWiNg A pLeBiAn HiS pLaCe?"
I said that I don't want to be a red rank, because I take this game casually and they are way too sweaty as a whole. I am a rank 5 survivor, and I'll push to red to say I've hit red, but it doesn't feel like I've accomplished anything. It only feels like I've spent more time than I need to into one side to achieve this rank that doesn't really mean anything and will be taken away within a few weeks.
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You don't even need to try that hard, Billy will definitely get nerfed soon anyway.
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Elitist is not the word but still red ranks have 90% of potatoes it's why the survival rate is very low. Hillbilly being a played godly is very rare same goes for spirit and nurse. Saying Hillbilly is OP clearly come from the player. I'm not a god survivor but can smash a lot of very good hillbilly, HE the most balanced killer but lethal at the right hands and survivors don't like that.
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It's a sad state of affairs when survivors have run out of ideas to nerf when actually wanting Hillbilly nerfed. A 100% loopable killer.
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I did not say once that he is OP or needs a nerf. I said quite the opposite. I even said what we need to BRING LITERALLY EVERY OTHER KILLER to the level of Hillbilly.
And I said that he has a very low skill floor for such a high reward, and this is a problem.
If it did not come across this way, then i genuinely apologise.
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*The viable killer problem.
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I can do one of these for every killer, but 90% of them will be about the people who play them.
And FFS, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH VIABLE KILLERS. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LOW EFFORT KILLERS GETTING HIGH REWARDS.
I acknowledge that there are high-skill Billies, but that is the ceiling, not the floor.
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That is the thing you know? He isn't low effort in the slightest, billy is high risk and high reward. You either can curve or you can not, this varies with the tiles on the map and etc... when you do it is great and there is few things that are as rewarding when you do curve a loop correctly and get that hit.
The thing is billy doesn't get low effort downs against good survivors so that is where you whole thing falls apart.
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You wouldn't mind recording some of your gameplay and uploading it to YouTube for us, would you?
I would like to see you play a few matches as Billy, if you'd indulge me.
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I do apologize too for being rude. Survivors really need to make efforts killer does but get nerfed anyway.
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Legion requires no mechanical skill. You just run fast and hit people. If people say he's difficult, that's because he's such a bad killer that you really need to work for the kill and it comes down more to killer fundamentals than being able to use his power (know how to loop, when and when not to chase survivors, etc.).
Just place traps on hooks and loops
You're not playing Hag well if you just put traps in front of hooks. That won't work against sentient survivors.
And "placing traps on loops" is very vague. You can't just place it anywhere. You need to know where in the loop to place the trap. For instance, if you place a trap in the wrong spot in the killer shack it will be useless against a good survivor (either by them triggering it through the wall or just avoiding it altogether).
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Well, yes. Because A) I'm on Xbox, so I can't get my recordings. Or have commentary to go with it B) Matchmaking is broken as and I haven't played killer for a full reset after it happened and C) I don't have an account to upload to.
All I will say is this, you don't have to believe me, but know that I am telling the truth here. I played a game as Billy on Yamaoka Estate. I got done badly. No kills. I had zero clue about Hillbilly's power and my perks were all chase. I know I had Enduring/Fury, but I forget what else. They were also higher purple, to my then low green. SWF. And super toxic.
I played another game, a day later. Coldwind Farm, aka Cornfield City. Small perk swaps for limited tracking to lead to a chase. I dominated, and I dominated HARD. Baiting pallets, that lead into chainsaws, one lucky sprint down, better curving. Easy 4k, and they were all my rank and randoms. They didn't play bad. I had zero tunnelling or camping.
What mechanical differences were there? I curved better because I had a slightly better understanding of his power. Same sprints for ground cover. Same basic attacks in jungle gyms. Same chainsaw bait.
Just better mind-games. THAT was the biggest part. And not versing sweaty SWF. If I can pick up a killer and start doing well after one bad game, and please note, I'm a STEALTH killer main, with limited Spirit play, then Hillbilly is a very easy killer to play.
I played a few more games, just to make sure. Same thing at my ranks. Easy 4k. Very little mechanical play. Sprint and hit.
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If you say so
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My apologies, I replied to the wrong person.
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You're technically right that you didn't say he was OP verbatim, however you said "way too strong" "potentially one of the strongest" which is as close as you can get without saying it. I don't even think you know what you are going for anymore in your discussion.
Either way, you are wrong. He is maybe mid tier at best. His only power is making potatoes freak out and run out in front of him. My personal experience has shown hillbilly players rely on this and they don't take a lot of time actually looking for players rather hoping one will just show up as they run around the map.
Again, I'm the survivor you describe yourself as. I grinded to rank 1 only to feel I was wasting valuable play time only to be rewarded with extended lobby times, bad killer host connections and endless sea of tunneling mori's. I too am not the best at jukes and loops and yet hillbilly is probably the first killer I truly learned how to conquer. Him and huntress are the 2 easiest killer powers to avoid.
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I wouldn't mind a nerf to insta saw billy, and other adjustments to his addons. I just hope they don't touch his base kit.
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You're right that nobody asks for survivors to be more complicated. I never even realized the disparity there, especially since more complicated basically means more stressful. Sure, lots of people want gen times to be slower, but I've never seen a request for more/harder skill checks or anything like that.
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The devs literally said on stream they won't do a secondary objective at this point in he games life so I don't think we need to worry about that.
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I'm sorry man, but give it up. You kind of lost the point here a while ago.
And that coldwind farms example isn't exactly a good one... Did you know those are actually his levels? Like they were designed with his power in mind, years before Legion even came out. The map is pretty wide open, it doesn't require skill to run. Now if you've ever gotten 4K on lery's with that little experience, you'd almost have a point.
But Semantics aside, it just seems like you have a hard time against this killer. He is one of those killers you actually have to have somewhat of a mental engagement with. You can't bargin bin loop or stealth 5 feet from a gen. You have to listen for the chainsaw, if you hear it more than likely it's coming your way, so until you know that isn't the case, you GTFO for a sec.. Or risk having to loop like your life depends on it
Also, a skill floor isn't something you should take into account in most games balance. It may make sense for something like League, but it's not a strong justification for nerfs in most games, because the skill floor doesn't always relate to the skill ceiling 1:1. Billy still has a cap on his rewards/ability, it comes down to the skill of the player no matter what. Because at the end of the day, Billy is a killer who can only respond to survivor mistakes, he can't take the initiative like Spirit and nurse who can pop up on you. And Billy is absolutely not better than nurse after nerf, there will never be a more powerful killer than her by design because her skill ceiling is just literally above every other killer.
If something is well within your ability to counter, why would that thing need to be adjusted?
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