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People need to stop complaining about gen times
I’ve been playing a lot of solo survivor. The killer wins the vast majority of games.
The fact is red ranks are completely watered down now. I’ve seen so many boneheaded moves and 5 second chases.
You all complain you’re getting genrushed but I see killers consistently win, most importantly - BHVR’s own stats agree with this.
Sorry if you’re not getting kills but that doesn’t mean that killers across the board aren’t getting kills. No killer is getting less than 2 kills per game on average.
A team of 4 survivors who are all exceptional and on comms can be very hard yes but teams of 4 high calibre survivors are quite rare. You don’t don’t get get that outside of a few swf groups. Randoms will always have a potato or two in there.
TL:DR stats indicate killers have been performing mostly ok. Killers still seem to be performing mostly ok. Many people were winning without using Ruin before anyway.
Comments
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Surprised to see you of all people say this, but I find only truth in your post. Thanks.
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- You claim stats say killer is performing ok so please show us.
- This entire thread is based on personal experience which everyone has differently.
With the way match making is its impossible to tell what is the "average" experience sense "Rainbow" matches or matches vs people over 10 ranks higher then you are a thing right now.
Also everyone who says they get gen rushed by people ten ranks higher then them with proof have more valid statements then this.
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Ditto. I play solo survivor PS4 purple ranks and the killers have been winning most of the matches. In the last 10 matches, I haven seen 2 people escape once, 1 person twice and the rest 4K. The last match was a major gen rush but the killer recognized what was happening and adjusted his tactics accordingly. He got a 4K with 1 gen left (I almost had that gen done when he found me). I have not seen any difference since the update. Killers are still performing very well at least at my level in solo.
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The devs have posted the stats themselves and I’ve seen them post on here that every killer is getting at least 2 kills on average.
I just had a game with purple ranks who got butchered by a green rank. These survivors were just going down constantly and often times together. It was only when the killer chased me that it bought them time to recover and get some work done. That isn’t the exception - its the norm for these games, but you don’t hear me complaining about how hard it is to win.
Ask Peanits or Almo about the stats. Have you not even read anything they have been explaining recently?
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I agree, but I think that's a separate problem altogether. It's a chicken and egg thing. Are gen times fine because so many survivors are suboptimal, or are so many survivors suboptimal because the acceptable floor is so low? And should the accepted standard be the skill floor relative to rank, or closer to good play?
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Now that is a much more interesting question.
Right now in most games we aren’t even close to getting an escape. However with new rank reset these red ranks genuinely play like green ranks, no exaggeration.
The red ranks of old rank reset were a different beast, though the stats say killer was performing just as well.
You are right though it is a chicken and egg scenario.
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I have double checked and found them referring too the November statistics NOT current statistics.
There is no dev proof given as of yet (I have seen a dev post saying they are coming though) about the post ruin nerf killer KRs
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No. Im a red ranks killer on PC and 90% of the games are 4 stacks SWF with coms and 3 gens gone by the time I hook a guy. This is NOT okay. I play both sides, games are so fast you cant even pip now
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"People need to stop saying X because my experience proves Y"
Regardless of the experience YOU have it is not indicative of the picture at large.
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Oh the irony.
Thats all that killer mains are doing right now. Complaining about gen times because they cant win games.
I have stats to back up my arguments thats the difference.
@Warcrafter4 But killers were complaining gens were too fast at the time those stats were released. They were way off then, nothing to say they arent way off now.
Besides the devs have commented on here that they predict there wont be much difference. Do you really think they would have changed the perk if they thought it would severely unbalance the game?
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So you have no proof while claiming you do...
Also the devs flatout said removing ruin was to remove survivor frustration. There was NO balance considerations made.
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Actually the Devs said they needed to remove Ruin (or change its core concept) to see if gens are actually a problem. Again it doesn't matter if YOU played and recorded 100 games, your own sample size is far to small to be considered "proof" when there are thousands of games being played.
I'm not saying people cannot voice their opinion on a matter but to tell someone "that's not true because I did X" doesn't prove anything.
I'm also not saying you didn't have these experiences. I have played plenty of Red rank games against such potato teams I don't understand how they tie their shoes in the morning, but I have also experienced plenty of the opposite, with SWF "deathsquads" who just rush gens down and try to be as toxic as possible.
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Oh brother..
Ok killers are getting genrushed in 3 mins every game and the devs did it partly just to rake in survivor cosmetic money and partly because they like to troll killer players.
That seems to be all thats ever posted on here. It MUST be true!
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Not trying to be rude but: It holds about as much water as your statements as both have equal amounts of evidence.
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Map design is the real issue. Gen speeds happens to be the symptom. But y'all really need to stop saying stuff like "killers win all the time" and "teammates are bad/red rank survivors are watered down" in the same breath. To me, it obviously means survivor players need to get better. Because 4 real red ranks survivors (not even swf), are very strong. Meaning, if survivors become better in the game, they can do the same thing. Killers are farmers at this point, just harvesting the potatoes that are unfortunately being fed to them.
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I’ve only escaped about 4-5 times while playing for at least 6-7 hrs yesterday solo’ing. You are speaking facts.
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they also posted, TO NOT DRAW ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM THOSE STATS, for example FROM THOSE STATS, nurse is the worst killer. is that true? NO
so just like your entire post, THOSE STATS ARE MEANINGLESS
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Everytime they have talked about killers....they have indicated that killers for the most part are doing fine.
Just look at the other day, when everyone asked for pig buff and we were told shes doing fine. They are using more than just one silly graph ffs
If you think the majority of the roster was severely underpowered and struggling to get kills do you not think they would have done something by now? considering the “SURIVOVZ OP DEVS HATE KILLERS” myth has been running now year after year after year.
I mean just look at the posts in this forum. Straight up conspiracy theories about how the entire development team hates killers and sits there scheming of ways to hurt them. Or how a strong killer gets a few little tweaks and suddenly its doom and gloom and now there are no killers worth left using anymore.
Its sad. It comes across as so entitled.
I dont get why you all have this “us vs them” mentality either. I would bet a large chunk of the playerbase participates in both roles.
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Yeah its really hard for 3 people to hold m1 for 80 seconds, no offense if holding m1 on gens took skill i would be with you, but since you lose games against players that are under your skill level it starts to get frustrating and guess what happens with something that is frustrating... bingo you don't do it anymore.
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You do realize some key data can be missing from most of the devs stuff, i.e. they could be trying to look at gen speed and see if it is the problem or if the problem is the map/lack of other objectives? Which these two are data that needs a bit more info on.
@Peanits or others can probably tell us more when they know more, but Gen speed is a symptom of a problem, and im sure devs know that by now
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I’ve played a ton since the update and have had the same experience. Very few escapes.
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What are you talking about lmao.
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I've been dominating lobbies as a 2-man SWF since two days. The only defeat i've taken is from a god Nurse yes they do exist. Gen get done very quickly i've never had that much fun as survivors but as killers it's another story.
Nurse , Hillbilly and spirit is still the way to go because we know where the issues are. The toolboxes nerf won't stop gen rush because if everyone go to different and watch gen placement it's a easy win. It's all about strategy but loops on Ormond/haddonfield/suffocation Pit/ Fractured Cowshed/Distrubed Ward are insanely strong and time consuming that it's unfun for killers.
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Maybe you have better luck than me but i run into talented survivors more often than not. Which wouldnt bother me ao much but so many DC the moment the match doesnt go their way just to acrew the killer out of pointa and pips... Its ok for survivors to be poor sports but everyone expects killers to just let survivors run all over them and then be graceful avout it
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Well done. I always complain about gen times. But all of your anecdotal evidence has convinced me that my anecdotal evidence is incorrect.
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Sounds made up.
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I can say it's definitely not
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Is no one going to point out that the November stats (which are NOT up to date anyways) are WITH ruin? that perk gave killers a chance to actually snowball and get kills, the post ruin nerf Stats are going to be very different on a lot of low tier killers like clown and legion, I easily can see them dropping below a 2 kill average
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Maybe you just need to "Git gud" like you tell us killers all the time
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People have said killers were underperforming for years though and they weren’t.
If the killrates fall, killers will get buffs.
All I’m saying is that stream after stream the developers (who all strangely look like Dwight) tell us that their stats indicate killers are doing ok. I dont know why people assume they are lying to us or make excuses. Or why people would assume that they would purposefully try to make killers weak.
The game can be hard and things can switch at a moments notice due to all the crazyness in a given trial, but I believe the devs are doing their best to balance the game given the data they have (which is a lot more than they share with us).
I dont understand the conspiracy theories.
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This argument has been proven to not work already. While I agree that gen times isn't the problem since playing survivor and just sitting on a gen already is boring and that there are better solutions to the problem. Though the reason your argument doesn't work is because killers are getting the kills in red ranks because matchmaking and the survivor ranking system are both terrible. Matchmaking is putting survivors in green ranks and up into red rank games even if they aren't in a premade so survivor teams are getting a lot of potatoes that shouldn't even be there and then survivor ranking makes it so someone who deserves to be rank 15 can make it to rank 1 so not only are you having to deal with survivors who shouldn't be there you have to deal with survivors who by rank should be there but their skill should've stopped them from being there so as a survivor you could be in the situation where you're the only who should be rank 1 playing against a rank 1 killer which is frustrating. It's also frustrating playing as the rank 15 trying to get better and getting put against a rank 1 killer and getting killed very early on and not getting to play. Instead of fixing these two things they're nerfing killers.
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So you're saying the flaw in the ranking system and the fact that a lot of games has potatoes justifies how horrible and frustrating a ton of games are against decent survivors?
k
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Don't worry... the good killers and the ones who actually know how to play the game aren't worried about gen times.
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The killrate means nothing because matchmaking and survivor ranking is so broken and they refuse to fix it that it improves killer rates because it pits good killers against new survivors. They also focus on survivors being better because they're a business and they're more focused on bringing in new players who spend the $20 to get the game and then the money for the dlc as a business it makes sense for them to focus on survivors more because there's 4 survivors to the 1 killer and killer is solo player so they're less likely to get their friends to play since they play killer and they won't be able to play with friends unless they play survivor so once again the killer mains who do bring in their friends to play end up playing survivor anyways. It's not a conspiracy theory it's just simple business.
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But the stats include red rank killers playing against low rank survivors and survivors suiciding in end game to save their friend from the hook. And again, going with these stats, Nurse is the worst killer in the game and should be buffed.
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Ok, then people should quit complaining about mori's then too
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I think it’s more along the lines of being a killer on a gigantic map and seeing a gen popping before we even reach it. We know survivors are there, and weare practically powerless to stop it from being completed (unless we are a high mobility killer).
To me, gen speeds are fine on maps that are not the size of Nebraska. When the maps are huge and certain killers are at a disadvantage just due to the fact they just have walking speed (Myers, trapper, clown, etc) and nothing else.
Thats the issue I see. Is it catastrophic? No, it isn’t. Losing a gen isn’t the end of the world. Not being able to pressure certain gens due to the absolute mileage between them is a problem.
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Ans the stats include red rank survivors going against green rank killers, and afk deranking wraiths going afk and letting survivors escape.
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is silly. Gen times are waay too short
1v4
5 gens
Gens 80 secs.
There's already a problem with the game design there. Gens can get completed within 3 minutes using simple math. Especially with the ruin rework lol. These are numbers
What you used were stats that have been proven to be unreliable because of how much information we got. Which was very little. Matchmaking, potatoes, derankers. With all the game's designing flaws the stats that were givin to us is unreliable.
In your personal experience you managed to get killed more than you have escaped. You claim this proves that gen time isn't the problem. While in my personal experience i managed to chase a trapper the entire game and escape within 3 minutes. Not only that but i also make top tier killers look like low tiers. But of course i have bad games as well, because i make mistakes and sometimes i just get screwd by teammates. I also get more 4ks as killer than i do anything less. But that's because they were potatoes probably givin to be by matchmaking. Which is a big problem. Which explains the huge kill rates in the stats.
If you want i can go deeper into details into the game design and show you how truly powerful survivors are.
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The picture at large are stats from the devs, and they show that there is no single killer that has below 50% killrate.
He is right in my opinion, more often then not, killers get 2+ kills, also in my games.
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I didnt read all the comments. But this thread couldn't be more truthful. Most games end with 3 or 4ks with average survior teams. Even non super sweaty swf groups all die sometimes. The games def require some skill as killer to be able to get the 4k it's not just giving to them.
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Balance issues are balance issues.
No one should be making excuses for the devs.
And just because lousy survivors muddy the waters doesn't subtract from the fact that optimal survivors are a problem (and need to be dealt with).
Survivors love talking about overpowered killer setups, but when it comes time for their own side to get adjustments, they start pretending like there isn't a balance issue.
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Exactly. That's why we shouldn't base anything on these stats.
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Impossible 90% of games are swf. Losing doesn't mean you were against a swf. That excuse is getting out of hand.
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The problem is matchmaking/ranking, people playing in ranks where they do not belong. This however is not reason for gamebalance it is reason to fix the flawed ranking/matchmaking.
Do you think either side enjoys roflstomps? Roflstomps are boring and nothing else.
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Matchmaking is the biggest problem, I'm in the red ranks as killer on ps4 but I don't deserve to be. I'll play against rainbow teams where their ranks are all over the place with one red rank survivor and yes I generally 4k in those games and my rank would go up...but when I play against a legit all rank 1 coordinated swf team...I know about it and I'll barely get a kill and that's only because they would get overconfident.
Granted this doesn't happen often but that is because of the poor matchmaking which skews the "statistics".
These complaints don't come out of nowhere, if killers were getting genuine 4ks on average then they would be very quiet on the forums as why would you rock the boat if you have it good.
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Using simple maths yes, accounting for the fact there is a killer and survivors need to run and find gens, not really 3 mins
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Isn't all the killers who say "I don't get any kills" say that from their own personal experience?
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I'll stop complaining when they are fixed.
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A generator takes 80 charges to repair. Each charge repaired has an 8% chance to proc a skillcheck (with some shenanigans mixed in, but you can expect around 7 skillchecks a generator overall)
Each skillcheck with a great result provides a 2% (1.6 charge) progression bonus. Assuming 7 skillchecks, this is 11.2 charges, leaving 68.8 to be repaired.
A survivor normally repairs at 1 charge per second. An engineer's toolbox (25%) with socket swivels (15%) and a clean rag (10%) increases repair speed by 50% (0.5/s) and Resilience increases repair speed by 9% (0.09/s) for 1.59 charges/second.
68.8/1.59=43.27
**LESS THAN 44 SECONDS** to repair a generator. Two survivors (one with Prove Thyself) can do a generator in 22 seconds, and if both bring Streetwise as well, than they retain enough charges to do the same to a second generator, meaning that 2 survivors (not including the time to run from one generator to the next) could do 2 gens in 44 seconds, and still have some charges left to get a head start on a third.
This, admittedly, isn't normally the case (well...)
Killers can interrupt gens, regression happens, etc. Resilience is a great chase perk, but there are more important things (dead hard, BT, DS, etc) and Streetwise/Prove Thyself are entire perk slots just for a bit of gen time, so let's talk about the commodious toolbox instead.
The commodious toolbox was forged in Mount Doom. It is indestructible. It has 180 charges - enough for 2 and 1/4 generators, and provides the basic 15% speed bonus. Paired with socket swivels and a clean rag, this jumps to a 40% speed bonus, while still good for more than 2 gens of work. How much time is this, you ask? Well, assuming good skillchecks (not everyone's Ussylis) and only 2 gens done (Jeez, let the rest of us get some lightkeeper emblems!) we're looking at 32 seconds shaved off of each of those to gens, or 64 seconds total, over a MINUTE of time. (With 20 charges left over for the heck of it. I don't know what you want to do with them, fail a couple of skill checks?)
The problem is that gen times without crap tacked onto them are mostly ok (sort of, anyways) but each game is different. Sometimes Ruin, or Devour Hope spawns in a really good spot, and survivors get a lot more regression/are forced to go look for it or else face free Moris, and other games survivors bring multiple kitted toolboxes and the game ends ridiculously fast.
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