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This Ruin nerf has made me realize how powerful killers were when they used hated tactics
In order to deal with the giant Ruin nerf, killers have had to change their playstyles in order to compensate for the new found ease of genrushing. I've tested out a few things like different perk builds, but what's proven to be most effective isn't perks, but slugging and especially tunneling. I never played using those tactics before because they just ruined the fun of the game for a number of players. However, nowadays it's become something of a necessity to stand a chance against people playing at their best.
Tunneling kind of reminds me of my stance on swf groups. When they use optimal tactics, it's just unfun and unfair to play against them. Now that I've started tunneling when the need arises, I can say the same about killers using this optimal tactic: unfun and unfair. Unfortunately, it's also become a necessity in a number of cases. The only way to stop the complete crush of a genrush is to get rid of a survivor asap.
I think most players hate both genrushing and tunneling, yet both have become so necessary for competitive gameplay that it's ruining the fun of the game. I honestly wish the devs would get their act together and seriously try to fix the core problems with the game nowadays instead of using perks, powers, and other bainaid fixes to try to counteract them. Hex: Ruin did need to be reworked, but it needed to be reworked simultaneously with genrush issues which in turn needs to be reworked simultaneously with tunnling issues cause genrushing and tunneling are just the different sides of the broken gameplay coin that destroys player fun.
For years, players have been asking for gameplay changes for massive amounts of intentional disconnects, tunneling, genrushing, camping, and ridiculously long chases; yet all we ever seem to get are minor bandaid fixes that do nothing to solve the primary problems that concern the community. The annoying part is these issues really wouldn't be that hard to solve if BHVR put a reasonable amount of resources into them. They just don't seem to care about what the majority of the playerbase cares about.
Comments
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While I respect your opinion, I have to disagree. Ruin didn't stop killers from being able to get kills or win. It's the fact that it became such a crutch for a vast majority that they can't seem to function straight without it. Now don't get me wrong, I know how useful Ruin was, but it was usually gone within the first minute, so there's no real difference. The new Ruin is actually good if survivors don't purge it instantly. Killers just need to start using newer tactics instead of just praying 4 survivors will just happily stroll around for 2 minutes searching for a Totem.
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Your problem is you don't understand how valuable Ruin only even lasting 30-60 seconds could be. It was enough time for you to set up a bit, it was enough time to apply pressure, it could've been enough time to catch someone off and hook them. It was invaluable for fair killers to play fair. It's the complete opposite to a crutch for those killers, and a bad killer is still a bad killer with old Ruin.
The idea that killers just need to "get good" and "not use a crutch" or "apply new tactics" just shows you don't know as much about this game as you probably think.
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You're right. This nerf has made it quite clear that I didn't need ruin to get kills and win. I could easily have just tunneled every single game and gotten a significantly high win percentage. But that's the point. I don't want to play like that and other people don't want me to play like that. Ruin wasn't necessary for winning; it was a perk that allowed for a larger variety of unhated gameplay. If that's what you want, that's your opinion, but I can promise you that's not the opinion of the majority of the playerbase. Both genrushing and tunneling need to be looked at and reworked to a balanced state.
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I just tried tru3's build on Wraith; nemesis + pwyf + stbfl + nurse's, game ended in a 4K (red ranks).
And one of the good things about that build is that you don't need to worry about getting stunned by ds because you'll get a pwyf ticket.
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Yeah we have been losing games that we were winning because the killer started camping/tunneling as after 3 gens popped.
It works too, but I don't blame killers. Do whatever you have to in order to win, survivors will do the same so you should too. If it's so bad then the devs should do something about it, until then....
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I know killers are being ######### on by the devs right now. I even get the do whatever it takes to do your job, but seriously camping it's still so bad. I'm trying to get my wife to enjoy the game and it's bad enough our ranks are so severely different (I've deranked numerous times but it's too easy to rank as survivor) but when killers camp and tunnel her, it's really hard to get her to enjoy the game.
Not to mention the grind increases for those games since your stuck earning half the possible points. There is almost no way for her to practice the game if she has to wait the 20 minutes wait time and then sits on a hook for 3-4 minutes of a 6-8 minute game.
Camping and tunneling is literally the only thing about this game, I truely despise. Everything else I take because it's in the game so it's fair game. NOED, I just cleanse the totems. Old hex ruin, I just cleansed the totems. Doctor, I just run around constantly and usually die. Freddy, like Deadpool to Juggernaut I just drool over my idol. Killers standing 5-10m away on first hook, really just makes me hate the game.
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The difference is survivors don't feel compelled to get off gens instantly when they see a hex skillcheck, prior even if they are gone pretty quick, it's still time wasted looking for ot and if you're lucky in a good spot
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Everything else you can take? There's nothing left to take 😂. Sadly some killer feel compelled to do this as players usually attempt to unhook before getting to second state, and unless hooked in basement, players will make it happen even if they have to trade
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Those are some rookie numbers, got to stand 16m away while camping so you dont ######### over your chaser icon.
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If you are not getting 2 gens done while you let me reach second stage on first hook after having looped the killer for the first 3 gens, id rather just suicide out. Too many potatoes letting people get to second stage first hook while not progressing the objective and not being targeted by the killer. The archive has alot to do with it, people sabotaging hooks or cleansing totems right next to a gen thats 80% done drawing the killers agro, farming hooks without BT, sandbagging loopers to get their protection hit in. Also, holy ######### do randoms not heal.
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Yeah archives changes priorities within a game, imagine having kindred but still dies off first hook when killers not even near, but sadly it kinda justifies as lobby waiting time is too long and players don't have the time to play legit while clearing rift
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I'm just saying I can handle BT, DS, DH, NOED, hillbilly and anything else people usually complain about. Paying against the new doc over and over again is starting to get to me.
But campers really just ruin the game, and not just for the hooked survivor. Some streamers do it and cry about gen speeds. "Game is too short so I need to camp and end the game quicker" such sound logic.
Ironically, the devs said they changed ruin and want to destroy gen slow down perk synergy because sitting at a gen for too long is stale. The counter to camping, is sitting on the gens the whole time, where is the deterrent for that?
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I'm not saying i enjoy going against campers thats why i run ds, not saying that it's a must have perk, but maybe you should run it if it's such a common occurrence in your game, you have to expect killers to camp sometimes like for instance after all gens completed, so why not just run it just in case? Good killer can afford to not camp but most killers don't fall on that category. I kinda don't blame killer for camping nowadays like i used to
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Sad thing is, I run BT. My friends run DS. They still tunnel the first survivor into the ground.
I've taken a hit before unhooking to make time for the unhook and try to block or get their attention only to have them run around and tunnel the other survivor into the ground.
Just a game or 2 ago, I managed to take 2 hits trying to stop this legion from tunneling. Only for him to leave me and continue his chase. Bottom line is, I don't want to be forced to a specific build because killers can't play. I like the perks I run.
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Same can be said for killers, they kinda rely on ruin so they can play nice(letting unhooked go free) but some killers are not able to apply enough map pressure thus feel the need to get the first kill asap, devs already made it nearly impossible to allocate time for killers to go for the 12 hooks so they don't feel compelled to follow up on it
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Tru3 camps to win, his video about gen speed is perfect evidence. 2 hooked in basement and he saw both other survivors.... He just sat there. I think this is what OP is talking about. He even says "there's nothing they can do". Great, I like playing games where there is nothing I can do, it just sounds so ######### fun.
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Almost like how a good amount of the time most killers can't do anything about 3 gens being done before the first down. Real fun that.
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I'm on your side. I've recently even started using these tactics to mine salt and save messages. I showed one about the guy saying the games wasnt fun. Someone tried turning it into being about kills. The worst part is certain streamers are even promoting it, so more people are doing it.
Personally, I have like 7 achievements left and I'm done with this game. I'm starting to stoop low for them too. I had a doctor literally ignore me all match so I could get the left for dead achievement.
Sad thing is, to help OPs arguement about core game problems, I was throwing the match for the achievement. Dropping all pallets, not touching gens. Literally making it 3v1.25 and they still almost won. They got to last gen and I had to run around like a potato so he would see them. They also gen locked but they had one gen at 50% done. Bottom line is, the game is so survivor sided that 3 good survivors can beat the killer.
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It was never a crutch, ****$#%#^
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Is that preventing the killer from playing? Can he still try? Camping a survivor is preventing them from playing, that's why it's the worst. It's just as bad as spawn camping in FPS imo. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying one is way more evil than the other.
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Well you clods wanted it by supporting the ruin nerf, expect much worse to come
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If I see a bodyblock like that I try VERY hard to tunnel the one they protected to death ASAP
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Survivors asked for this by begging for killer nerfs, sucks. Also I wouldn't try to introduce someone I care about to the game in it's current state, recipe for resentment
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"fair killers" should not exist...
You want the killers to grab a bag of chips and watch soccer with the survivors?
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As opposed to what? Camping survivors or tunneling survivors? Is that fun for you? For them? Does that make you think you're good, does it help you improve? Being fair and fun for a lot of killers was trying to hook everyone 12 times. Generally speaking that is fun for everyone because everyone will walk away with a lot of points and pip, and it isn't unfun. I'm not going to pound gens if I know a killer plays like this. Killers can't really do that anymore because Ruin generally gave them the little boost to get pressure rolling. In fact killers who play like that now are more likely to play more unfair because they simply have to.
If you don't think that fair killers exist or you disagree with that then that's fine. There's nothing wrong with playing how you want to play or doing those things to win.But if your goal is to play unfairly, then you'll never improve and you're probably going to be stuck being a below average killer at best
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Killers are camping/tunneling just as much as they did before the re-work and in some situations new Ruin is actually more powerful than old Ruin.
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like survivors with DS, BT, DH, Adren/Unbreak
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Killers camped and tunneled even with old Ruin, which made those tactics even stronger.
In any case they are not the solution to gen rush, since gen rush is the counter to them.
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I didn't ask for killer needs. Other than more severe penalization for face camps, I rather have killer buffs.
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What new tactics? The only new tactics we have are the old tactics: tunnel and slug
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I strongly prefer to play fairly and 3 hook everyone, a 2-3k with 3 hooking them that lasted 10 minutes is how I quantify a good match
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This ruin nerf has made me realize how big problem gen times are.
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Complete bollocks.
A win is a win. And if it is still effective in high ranks it means it is working.
Simple as that. It is not "toxic".
It is not "unfair".
It is all within the rules and possibilities of the game without any CHEATS, BUGS or HACKS, which would be unfair or toxic...
It also does not mean stagnation skill wise. You assume that to tell yourself that people who play in a more aggressive way you don't like are somehow lesser or unskilled.
Which is not the case.
On the other hand survivors do everything to survive. That's OK too. I never complained about a group key escape or anything like that. And "gen rushing" is pretty much survivors doing their objectives...
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Um quick question. Why is the ruin nerf so big for people? The old ruin your totem gets broken pretty fast if someone is using a map or good at finding totems. I just don't see the difference.
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Unless it spawned in a horrible location, even the time it takes for survivors to hunt for it means that the killer can find a survivor and start a chase before survivors start gens if they're all looking for hex totems. That severely lowers the probability that 3 gens will be completed before you get a down.
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This is exactly why in my opinion, if the game ever got a second objective, or if most maps were reworked to be much more balanced, alongside buffs to weak killers, tunneling and camping would definitely need nerfs in some way.
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