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Is anyone buying into this BS hidden skill MMR?

I mean I know there are plenty of white knights for BHVR on the forums, but even their own freaking Fog Whisperers are saying how stupid this system is?

Is someone actually believing this hidden skill system is a good system? They won’t even tell you what you are “supposed to do,” to get a good skill rating?

Comments

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    What is the same skill level though, it’s hidden so they won’t say what is “skillful.” Is camping hooks for 2 kills the same as multiple chases for 1 kill? Is doing 1 gen, 1 save and 1 long chase the same skill as 4 gens and the door with no chases or altruism?

    There never will be Info, they’ve stated the skill score will remain hidden.

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616

    That's not the only thing of which there's not enough information.

    There's also the actual implementation, PTB or live, that's missing.

    If i can't test it, then i can't know for myself.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    I don’t know how it can be tested, I mean how will you know if the teammates you have are the same skill level as you without seeing what they’re doing. I mean if you do 3 gens and nothing else pops while Bond shows you two hiding teammates you think they suck right? But do they, or does the new skill system reward avoiding chases and escaping?

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616

    No, that's definitely low skill.

    And if it rewards those things and not the way you prefer to play, then just keep playing like you always do, and then it should match you more and more with people who play like you do.

    I say "should" as i don't know, i'd have to test that as well.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    True. Honesty I don’t think they care much about skill, rank or anything else when it comes to matchmaking anymore which is why they’re hiding it.

    Well probably end up with random rank/skill teammates and killers every game anyways

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616
    edited January 2020

    The overall time it takes to address the current problems with matchmaking certainly doesn't help them, i can say that much.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,965

    I don't know enough about it to judge whether it will be any good or not. But I will say that there is merit in not telling the players too much. The more information players have the easier it is to "game" the system.

  • Todgeweiht
    Todgeweiht Member Posts: 3,666

    I hope they take into account perks and add-ons, maybe add some kind negative bonus when running strong add-ons and perks

    For example, your skill points are halved when using ultrarare add-ons

  • BBQnDemogorgon
    BBQnDemogorgon Member Posts: 3,615

    Sure i am i'm ready to see what they do. The old system wasn't very good imo anything else will be an improvement.

  • LordCyphre
    LordCyphre Member Posts: 195

    You think the current system is any better?

    Any change that made smurfing harder would be a good change in my book.

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,330
    edited January 2020

    For me I'm glad they acknowledged a few things in the blog post

    • Rank does not correlate to skill (Second paragraph)
    • There can be circumstances where your rank is adjusted unfairly in uneven matchups (Fifth paragraph)

    While I don't believe an MMR system won't work in the current setup of DBD it's nice to see them taking another crack at it. Although in my opinion they need to start from the ground up on a rank system starting with having a blatant win condition for each side & each killer needs their own pip conditions because each killer plays differently. Survivor is honestly pretty straight forward in terms of what a win condition and pip conditions could be.

    Hiding the MMR system AND hiding current ranks in my opinion is a bad idea. If BHVR is going to test this MMR system they should update the post game screen to accommodate the new rank system. Although the post game screen has been in need of an overhaul regardless imo. Such as post game stats and an event feed of some sorts.

    tl;dr - I don't believe this is the solution BUT BHVR at least acknowledges some important issues and takes a stance on them in the blog post.

  • ZoneDymo
    ZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946

    imagine jumping too conclusions

  • Snapshot
    Snapshot Member Posts: 914

    I also don't understand why they want to hide the MMR rating... Security by obscurity is the worst thing you can do and is proven not to work multiple times throughout human history

  • NullEXE
    NullEXE Member Posts: 1,632

    Not even for a second. Unless they are planning to make it something as basic as if you get 2 hooks you rank up, or if you escape you rank up. Then there are too many game variables that effect the course of the game to make a reliable mmr system. That's not including the excessive amount of RNG in this game. Like what if the last survivor takes the hatch - an auto win mechanic that takes no skill to use. What is a Killer facecamps bubba each and every match, confirming 2 or more kills?

  • Pepsidot
    Pepsidot Member Posts: 1,662

    Forever have potato team mates. Playing solo as a red rank with 3 other survivors getting downed in 2 seconds is really not fun... and it seems the new MMR system will be even worse and compliment this.

    Killer might get boring too if games are too easy. Whispers may become a requirement.

    There could also be times where I face nooby killers with experienced survivors on my team... which will also be boring.

    All I want to have is teammates and a killer that is a similar skill level to me. But, maybe I'm over reacting. We'll see soon enough.

  • AStupidDavid
    AStupidDavid Member Posts: 156

    I think we shouldn't draw any conclusions before the changes go live, honestly. Don't care about what fog whisperers have to say, at the end of the day we play the game too and it's not like they know stuff that we don't. The fog whisperers are a group of people that have helped this game grow thanks to their content and that's basically it.

  • ClickyClicky
    ClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    What we have now is garbage. Something new gets offered.....I’d rather take my chances and see how it goes.

  • joker7997
    joker7997 Member Posts: 899

    They are taking information away from us. Never ever trust someone that wants to keep you in the dark. They're tired of the complaining, and they know more than we suspect that there are no longer enough high rank killers to keep up with the number of survivors. I'd be surprised if there actually is any "skill rating" ever implemented, they're going to say there is and put a blindfold on you so that you won't know if anything was done or not

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    Except they do often know things we don't, BHVR releases some info to them and asks for them to come to the offices for input. They aren't the be all end all, but they do still have something extra.

  • AStupidDavid
    AStupidDavid Member Posts: 156

    Not in this case, these upcoming changes were posted for everyone to read and it's ridiculous that some people are already drawing conclusions based on someone else's thoughts when none of us have tried out these changes yet. I understand if expectations aren't high but people need to chill out and stop being so negative (I'm only talking about the people that are already trashing the devs for no reason).

  • TraitorousLeopard
    TraitorousLeopard Member Posts: 156

    I'm more optimistic than most because all it has to do is hit the very, VERY low bar of being better than the emblem system.

    We currently have a system where it's easier to rank up as Legion than Billy because Billy downs people "too fast". I mean, they can't do worse than that, r-right?

  • toxicmegg
    toxicmegg Member Posts: 662
    edited January 2020

    already have potato teammates in red ranks. so that's not gonna change

    also it's not like you always get a baby opponent(s) and easy games, it's a 50/50. a good chance to adapt and win about half of your games as it should be.

  • HellDescent
    HellDescent Member Posts: 4,883

    No. They are just sweeping terrible matchmaking under the rug while improving queue times by throwing everyone together and then saying that system is working as intended with no actual indication of it

  • Rivyn
    Rivyn Member Posts: 3,022

    I like the idea behind the system, but a 'hidden' element just screams 'we can't get a decent balance, so we're covering it up to avoid lobby dodging/blaming.' Part of the whole 'we're a casual game' shtick, and 'we don't want people to judge others on their rank/rating.'

    Not to mention this system does nothing for SWF. I liked how they claimed they wanted the new system to judge 'fairly,' yet ignore SWF..

  • ApeOfMazor
    ApeOfMazor Member Posts: 471

    The game is no longer competitive with this change. Might as well just joke around. Some games you get destroyed, others you win easy.

  • ReallyBigShoe
    ReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764
    edited January 2020

    It was never competitive. It has always been a casual game.

    BHVR has never been about "fair".

    For example, this is why they nerfed ruin:

    I mean, it's not for sure...but remember when instablinds were a thing and then Mcote got bullied in that game as Hag by instablinds? Like 2-3 weeks later, instablinds were nerfed.

    Then this happens...and a month later, RIP ruin.

    🤣

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    I can’t see the video, what happens does he miss like 20 skillchecks

  • BaldursGate2
    BaldursGate2 Member Posts: 994
    edited January 2020

    Band aid much again. Instead of fixing the matchmaking system, they make it invisible / hidden from you, so you can't complain and get no evidence, how rigged the game is.

    But hey, at least we get constantly new cosmetics yaaaay!

  • ReallyBigShoe
    ReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764
    edited January 2020

    He misses one and says "f this, ruin is making me unhappy" as he proceeds to go and try to find the ruin totem.

    He doesn't just miss the ruin skillcheck, though. He misses the entire skillcheck completely and blows the gen, lol

  • The_Bootie_Gorgon
    The_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340

    The game is still competitive by nature...two sides playing against eachother. This has never been MLG competitive, just like pick up basketball games at the local rec center have never been pro level. You are still competing and you still try to win.

  • ReallyBigShoe
    ReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764

    I mean, by that logic, so is Twister. Even though it's a party game, Twister is multiple sides playing against eachother.

    You see why that argument doesn't work? :)

  • The_Bootie_Gorgon
    The_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340

    You have never seen me play twister...

  • BigTimeGamer
    BigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752
    1. BHVR adds ranks in Lobby - People called out the ######### MM system (everyone knew already but this gave concrete proof)
    2. BHVR Removes seeing lobby ranks, nothing changes as the cats out of the bag and people quickly notice the rank disparity more
    3. Leaks reveal Ranks being removed in upcoming patch - only thing missing from patch following backlash
    4. MMR-style system announced - won't see other player's rankings

    "Something's wrong, I can feel it" - Eminem

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    Right, and all the white knights were on the forums “see what leak was wrong BHVR Didn’t remove ranks.”

    Do they really think waiting a few weeks still doesn’t look obvious?

  • ReallyBigShoe
    ReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764

    Do you do it in the nude? If not, you're not hardcore. Unless you live hardcore.

  • The_Bootie_Gorgon
    The_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340

    I do it with out flesh, after that....It's go time 👍

  • pizzamess
    pizzamess Member Posts: 209

    Or it will be even worse than the current system and players will have no data to speculate as to why it's so broken and be given the ability to properly criticize any mistake bhvr is going to inevitably make.

  • ALostPuppy
    ALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    An MMR system simply can't work in a game like this, so I'm really not looking forward to this change. It's gonna be even worse than it is now. It's not the fact that the devs might mess it up, it's the fact that I know for sure it won't work, because it's just way too difficult to even implement an MMR system into a asymmetrical multiplayer game like DbD in the first place. Recently they've been going way too far with taking the community for granted and just throwing things at their game to see what sticks. Literally all they need to do to improve matchmaking is to revert the SWF changes and the game will be automatically so much better, but this has never crossed their minds...for some reason. Instead they've resorted to coming up with more ludicrous solutions to simple problems.

  • The_Bootie_Gorgon
    The_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340

    no i cannot...my attention needs to be focused on drunk leegon 👀

  • Archimedes5000
    Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,620

    People woud stop tryharding?

    Killers have to tryhard to win most of the time and surviviors do not have to tryhard already by playing swf.

    Maybe leave the decision to tryhard or not to the player, and not force it on anyone

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    If reverting matchmaking means going by the lowest rank player I disagree, or was it by average survivor rank?

    I don’t think I agree with either of those options as a rank 1, 1, 1 and a 20 would be matched up against a rank 5-6 killer even that is a gross mismatch when it comes to looping. Plus if the 20 is an alt the killer wouldn’t even have an easy down to use for pressure

  • DepressedClownMain
    DepressedClownMain Member Posts: 924

    Everyone has basically agreed how ######### this system is, so I think BHVR implements it next week

  • ggallinftw
    ggallinftw Member Posts: 351

    I don't see how a skill system could help a game where they constantly release challenges that encourage teammates to grief each other. The data will be heavily skewed.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    But they use those games to determine "kill rates," well duh of course a killer will get 3.25 kills per game when 2 survivors are trying to loot 4 chest each, one has to drop 10 pallets in one game and the other is the only person actually trying to do gens.