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Gen Rush
I see a lot of people bringing up the "gen rush" lately due to the Hex:Ruin nerf. I feel like I understand what killers are talking about when they bring this subject up but I wanted to make somewhat of an informative and inquisitive post to gauge the communities opinions.
Informative Part:
Space Coconut posted a video about this subject in Aug. 2019 and I wanted to transcribe the part I think is most important.
Space Coconut -- "In general, without inserting bias as best I can, the gen rush is this; the feeling of how quickly gens can be done by survivors who are not being chased by the killer. The killer can only effectively chase one survivor from doing gens at a time by chasing them. Depending on how long that chase goes on, the remaining three survivors can work on generators and complete them at an effective pace. As gens are completed, the killer feels more pressure to down and hook survivors in order to prevent them from escaping."
"In most cases, if a group of survivors can effectively loop a killer while the others focus on generators and trade off as they are downed and hooked, the killer will be unable to stop them from escaping. This places the time crunch on the killer while the survivors feel no time crunch. This time crunch is called The Gen Rush. Which is also why most survivors mains will tell you it doesn't exist, because they don't feel the time crunch."
"The ones who do, recognize how quickly the match went as they finish the last gen. There are things that will alleviate this pressure, the most popular of which, is Ruin. But, most players will note how soon the hex is cleansed within the match. Then you'll have other players rattling on about map pressure and "letting" the survivors do gens, but they are deliberately ignoring the main points about the concern."
"The survivors only have one objective and that's to do gens. Because they only have one objective and there are four of them, the killer feels an immense amount of pressure to stop them from doing so. It sounds easy, but depending on the tools that the survivors decide to bring into the match and their skill and the way the balance is in the game, it can be very difficult for any killer to down a skilled survivor within a reasonable amount of time. This is The Gen Rush."
Inquisitive Part:
Do you killer mains agree with this?
Is SWF a factor in gen rushing?
Does this help survivor mains understand what killers are referring to when they say "gen rush"?
Sourced video here:
(Originally posted on Steam forum.)
Tl;dr Gen rush is the feeling of a time crunch placed on killers.
Comments
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Generator Rush doesn't really exist - you need to apply more pressure.
I am capable of applying extreme pressure as Clown against Survive With Friends without any issue
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Just play survivor If killer is stressful or idk wait for gen speeds to be adjusted
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Just because you can doesn't mean everyone else can. Some people are more skilled, where some are just playing casual and want to just enjoy themselves. Everyone has different skill levels in games like these. Not everyone wants to go sweaty tryhard and win. The same goes for a lot of survivors. Some are really skilled at chases, but others aren't. It all depends on who you are against.
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Either you're rank 18, your SWF is just a 2 man looking for memes, or your 4 man are potatoes.
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"I've never experienced this problem so clearly it doesn't exist"
Gee thanks for that congressman. Is climate change just a myth because it still gets hot and cold outside?
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wait if you wrote "safe pallet every 5 feet" you just wrote "im new to this game"
badham has a lot of pallets, but that map has like 5-6 safe pallets (2 in main building, 1 shack, 1-2 in small building with basement, and 1 in other house on floor) if you think other pallets on this map are safe, visit almost every farm
and btw "4swf with 4x 4 2nd chance perks, toolboxes and key" i can bet its like 1% of games (on most ranks) and at most 5% at red ranks (btw on redranks killers with full purple+ add ons) aint that rare (vs non swf, non items lobbys too)
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For those that cant see the video and want to see it, the video is "Let's talk about the Gen Rush" ~ Dead by Daylight~ by Space Coconut.
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so you did that to baby killer, because every other killer would bloodlust you on every other pallet (except those 5-6) xd, and i bet that killer was just kicking every pallet you dropped, without even trying to bloodlust/mindgame you xd
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ok if you hug god window you should tell that in 1st place xd i shouldnt waste my time on you xd
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Oh, the good old "No true Scotsman" argument.
You killed a SWF team with 4 toolboxes? Well they weren't a true SWF team then.
When do people acknowledge that it is actually possible to win against a 4-man SWF? I haven't used Ruin in a year and haven't really struggled much as killer.
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This is more about the time crunch killers may feel and not so much about Ruin itself.
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Feelings are subjective, whoever gets offended by t-baggers choose their own demise.
Decision making and game sense is the more decding factor compared to gen times or loop safety, and the lack thereof may result in losing games and "feeling the time crunch".
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So you literally acknowledged that it's possible to win with the top tier killers. Playing trapper against a skilled 4-man SWF is probably not a wise choice. Game sense starts with choosing the right killer for yourself to play. If you want to meme around, you probably play Wraith or something like that. If you want to win, you will choose a top tier killer. What exactly is the problem now?
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So you face bad survs.
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Logic of a bad killer:
If I win against a team, it's because they were just bad.
If I lose against a team, it's because gen rush.
Stop blaming the game when you are bad at the game. Stop moving your goalposts of double standards and finally acknowledge that it is actually possible to win against a good 4-man SWF.
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That is why I said, "may feel". Some killers dont feel it so that's fine. This is more for those who do. The game inherently has an undefined "time limit" on the killer dependent on the actions made within the match, so there is a time crunch whether it is felt or not.
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Killers make the mistake: "Oh no, 2 gens got popped, I'm getting gen rushed!"
If you know what you are doing, survivors should fall right and left to you in mid game, you don't care about the potential 2 (absolute worst case 3) gens you lost early game because you are in control of the game now and you pressure them so well that there is no actual time crunch to feel.
I'm actually sick of killers getting a 4k almost every game and still complaining about gen rush.
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For me, it oftentimes comes down to the tools used. The devs nerfed Freddys addons because it was deemed unfair that a slowdown could build up so much when survivors are injured (procing thana), hooked multiple times (proccing dying light) and asleep (proccing Freddy's addons). Its completely ok though for the opposite to occur with things stacking to speed things up, which can occur at the very start of the game as opposed to gradually and after being earned.
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Victory and defeat is not clearly defined in this game.
The devs seems to consider a 50% survival rate as a balanced trial.
The killers may want at least a 3k at most trials.
The survivors want to outplay the killer (looping, flashlights etc) and survive.
Therefore, discussing gen rush depends on what is considered a balanced game without killing the playerbase on both sides.
In my opinion, when I play as a survivor, I dont want to have a 50% survival chance, as I like harder games as a survivor.
As killer (demogorgon main), if an entire team is very good on looping and coordinated I usually get a 1k at best.
Perhaps adding a better post-gen experience could fix this issue.
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+1 This.
You even get this with competent solos as well though.
You can have chases all <15 seconds and still lose just because gens are too fast. People like to say slug for pressure, but that's easier said than done when many maps are way too large to be able to properly pressure for most killers and you have x4 Unbreakables, BT's, DH and DS. All the x4 meta perks that get stacked are all second chance perks that block the killer from pressuring.
Just the freaking time it takes to walk from one side of the map to the other for most killers is half an entire gens time for ONE survivor. This isn't a new revelation though, people have posted the math for killer objectives compared to survivors ad nauseum on these forums already to no prevail.
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I have never ever seen or experienced a match where all chases end within 15 seconds and survivors still manage to repair all generators. But I do get your point with big maps, some are simply too big for killers to apply enough map pressure. Though I'm pretty sure it does not take any killer 40 seconds to walk from one side of the map to the other side.
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You are probably not red ranks then. Clown has no map pressure and if you are going against swf with toolboxes and you can 4k easily i dont buy it. What is your typical build?
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Red rank Clown. I'm a self-proclaimed God Clown though.
I have no issue with Survive With Friends.
My last current build:
"Corrupt Intervention + Discordance + Dying Light + Thanatophobia"
I change my build constantly - my newest current build:
"Corrupt Intervention + Insidious + Play With Your Food + Tinkerer"
I experiment a lot; it could be a factor in my success, as my builds are random and people don't expect it.
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You'll enjoy facing me solo. I seem to always get survivors who have a phobia of M1.
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It was already timed in a video ScottJund did I believe.
That said, even if we were nice about it and said 20 seconds..x4 survivors. That is still insane.
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nice bait
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Gen Rushing is a side effect to making bad plays and not properly applying pressure.
People that tunnel for example, think that tunneling just means you are focusing on that one survivor... but it also means not proactively pushing that survivor into an area where you could check on a gen or gens. Survivors who have great map awareness will never take you to an area where other survivors are working on a gen, at least not on purpose.
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How dafuq are killer playing bad when they finish chases in 30 sec and still get 2 gens popping anyway? Heck, if they team up on a gen, that gen Is popping before you can even physically walk to it in some maps.
Could you kindly enlighten all killers here on how to apply pressure against decent survivors. You know, those who last more then ten sec in a chase and aren't scared of touching the gens.
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So what you’re asking is for no gens to be done until the killer gets their first down? Not every single 1st chase is 30 seconds. It depends on many variables. Also, it’s 33 seconds for 3 survivors working on one gen, so when you say 2 gens pop, that is virtually incorrect. This is assuming they don’t have a toolbox.
How do you apply pressure? hmm let’s see... you have to understand how the map is laid out. If the survivor you choose to go for first finds themselves at a strong tile, you might as well leave them and go to a gen. (If they are as good as you describe them to be). That’s just one way.
If you can’t out smart a decent survivor at tiles I would suggest to watch killers who have content showing exactly how to run specific tiles. That’s how I learned.
You can’t really expect to be in a chase and not have one gen pop. This is why you have to coordinate yourself because you are trying to out pace them. You aren’t suppose to kill 4 survivors while having 5 gens up.
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Hm, dropping a chase doesn't necessarily means you're going to stop other gens to being done right way. Worse yet, what stops the first survivor from just going back to the original gen? Genfobia?
And I'm yet to see anyone ask for 4k 5gen.
What I reckon is that most players want a fairer ratio for Chase time / gen speed.
And for the killer not have to bear all the time pressure by itself.
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Dropping a chase is a smart choice sometimes. This has been proven time after time and it is very good against SWF. It forces someone off their gen and in a SWF situation it could mess up their communication, allowing the killer to find someone in a bad position.
I have played with my friends and have had killers switch targets and mess us up to the point we are wondering who they are on.
What I mean when I said that you can’t 4K at 5 gens is not that people are asking for this, but rather that your job is to out pace the gens, meaning some will inevitably get repaired. If you want to slow down gens at the beginning then you need to prepare a build for that. The killer can’t be in 5 locations at once.
There are things I agree that need to be reworked... god windows, certain maps, and also individual killers’ abilities....why this? Because you can’t make a giant buff and not overtune killers that are already strong. I know Pig can’t teleport, but her dynamic during a chase could change, to make up the difference. Etc.
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I've experienced something different against SWF.
I've been running discordance on my PIG, so I can Sneak up on the most critical gen.
Was chasing a guy early today, and dropped the chase as soon as my discordar went off. Pretty sure they were all SWF, cause they were gone by the time I go to the gen.
I agree dropping a chase is a smart move, and that's why I believe SWF are broken and completely ######### up the balance of the game.
Had the team I was facing not being a SWF, I would have the chance to try a new chase or even a grab.
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I'm sorry,but at this point you are just trolling lmao. I'd understand if you were playing any stronger killer and claiming you can apply pressure,but this is just trolling
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If I’m being completely honest I think the Pig’s ambush could be sped up a little. She already gives a pre warning she is coming so it gives the survivor time to react.
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I never use it, I only use the crouch to be sneak. Too bad the bloodweb refuses to give me Monitor and abuse.
I also think her pink add-on Rule should be base. There's literally a saw box close to many hooks that I never saw the appeal of running it. My got to add-ons are Gear bag/box and the one that gives you an extra SAW box on the map.
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Gen rush doesn't exist. Only other objective is totems.
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Did you even read the post? If so then, okay.
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If a team goes in with the sole purpose of doing gens as quickly as possible, then yes, it does exist.
Bringing all the perks JUST to get gens done quicker, bringing toolboxes along as well.
Like the De-pip squads but with a pure focus on doing gens, yes that does constitute the label of Gen-Rushing.
In general though, as with all things, people are just stupid and call everything gen rushing, camping, tunneling, toxic, whatever they need to vent or feel they did not fail.
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Every time I see posts like this all I can think of is "video or it didn't happen".
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XD guys haha xd omg xd I'm right because xd haha xd I dont care about what you had to say xd I just wanted to make fun of you haha xd
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That's literally just doing the objective.
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You need to take a chill pill.
Stop giving up, you lose some matches that just happens. Try to figure out what went wrong, where you could've reacted better. Record your gameplay and take a look at it. Try to figure out what the problem is.
You can ask for advice in the forums, people are willing to help. Not everyone is a dick.
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