NOED is perfectly balanced. (not clickbait)
I've always read people complaining about NOED. I think it's fine as long as Adrenaline is not being reworked. I don't use it, unless I try some NOED+blood warden just for the laughs, like here https://clips.twitch.tv/AbstemiousKnottyPonyTF2John
It has downsides:
-The killer has to play with 3 perks during the whole match to have end game potential. Sort of like STBFL, you deprive yourself from a current advantage (hitting the obsession) for a future reward. Same as PWYF, you lose chases for speed.
-It has counters. Survivors can do all totems, or they can find the NOED later.
-I'm seeing a lot of people using Inner Strength, so totems are being clensed even more now than before.
-Survivors also have end game perks, like adrenaline or hope, which can't be countered by anything else other than NOED.
Survivors believe that when the fifth gen pops "that's it, we won the match, gg wp, get me the end screen", you still have to open the gates and you still have to escape and end game IS A THING, you don't deserve to escape just because you did 5 gens, the match is not over yet.
Of course I've also read arguments:
-"NOED rewards killers for performing badly." Not really, if he's bad, you're probably still 4 alive, I'm pretty sure you can find the NOED and rescue and escape. If you snowball and have 4 killed by a NOED it's your fault for you performing badly in the end game. Also if he managed to kill 1 or 2 after the end game, maybe he's not that bad.
-"Adrenaline is a reward for doing the objectives, NOED is not." Well, doing gens is what you're supposed to do, you didn't do anything special or risked anything other than playing the game as you should. Imagine a perk rewarding the killer for hooking survivors, "if you did 6 hooks, a random survivor dies" that would be a reward for doing nothing but playing the game.
So, that's my two cents. If you have any thoughts, please be constructive. Thanks for reading.
Comments
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NOED is fine. If a Clown brought 3 perks into a trial and got a 0k or 1, people would think they were trolling. If that same player brings NOED, Blood Warden, Remember Me and plays the game with 1 perk until the gens are done, people lose their minds if they 4k. But nobody would bat an eye if a Clown got a 0k with 1 perk. You'd just think they were crazy for only bringing 1 perk.
If you're running NOED, you're running at most 3 perks, and you may not ever see the 4th perk. We talk about how bad totem spots are. Are totem spots suddenly god tier if it's a NOED totem?
Even if someone gets downed by NOED, you are under no obligation to feed the killer additonal kills like so many do. I tend to just leave. I don't know why so many survivors see NOED and decide to carpet bomb the hook to turn a 1k into a 4k.
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Noed is completely counterble but no matter what someone will still complain cause of the privliged mindset that some of the community has...
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Apparently, it needs to be said. Check out this other thread, where most people would remove NOED.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1051352
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I think your premise of people hating NOED because it's unbalanced isn't right at concept. I think the reason most people hate NOED has absolutely nothing to do with it being fair or not. Most people believe it is a fair perk, myself included. There are plenty of counters available.
The reason most people hate NOED is because it rewards you for survivors being lazy, not because you did anything skillful. For example, I'd prefer NOED re-activate a gen if they didn't do all the totems. Then it counters "gen rushing" and ignoring totems, but it does so by giving me more time to make skillful plays instead of just handing them to me. It gives undeserved kills in its current form.
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NOED is the most balanced perk just like Hillbilly is the most balanced killer.
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its not the fact that it exists that people dislike it, it’s the killer being rewarded for failing their only objective
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The game doesn't end as soon as the last generator pops. The killer is 100% encouraged to defend generators so the survivors can't open the door and escape, but the generators being powered does not automatically mean the killer lost.
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His objective is to kill, not before the fifth gen pops, but during the whole match, before and after the 5th gen, end game included. As I said, survivors think the killer lost when the 5th gen pops, you're assuming he failed his objectives when the match isn't even over yet.
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Also, survivors didn't finish their objectives either, they must do 5 gens and at least 1 of 2 doors. So maybe adrenaline should pop when at least one door is opened, not a reward when they did part of their objectives. Imagine a perk where if the killer kills two people, the third one automatically dies, that would be rewarding him for doing part of their job, just like adrenaline.
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It's actually a trash perk that no killer should or needs to run. You will win more games if you run something else in that slot.
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It's a crutch.
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Not really, it's a relatively strong perk that gives you free hooks or deaths in the end game, or time if survivors are clensing all totems instead of doing gens. If it was trash, nobody would use it.
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If you think about it, every perk is a crutch. Without BBQ or whispers you wouldn't be able to find survivors quickly, without self-care, inner strength or bond people wouldn't heal so easily and would really depend on finding another survivor. Also all exhaustion perks are crutches, for instance Dead Hard makes you win loops and extend chases where you would otherwise go down. And don't get me started on Adrenaline. Also, keys?
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Agreed, any good group of survivors should not have a problem with it, survivors have a lot of tools and perks that help them with totems.
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players complaining about noed is HILARIOUS
CLEANSE THE DAMN TOTEMS
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But their only objective is to hook and sacrifice survivors, not to protect the 5 gens.
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Ok, keep noed but add in-game chat. Then survivors will at least be more likely to cleanse the totems because they’ll coordinate that with one-another. Also, before you assume that adding in-game chat is a “buff” for survivors, ask yourself why it is that in a game where there are four survivors and a killer, why it is that the survivors can’t talk to each-other?
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It's a great way to punish genrushing. No matter how good you are as a killer, if the survivors are not being altruistic then gens are gonna fly by, no matter how good you are. I never use to run NOED but after the Ruin nerf I consider the gloves have been taken off, and there is no reason for me to play nice anymore. It's so much fun when you are doing well and still all gens are done in 5-6min, the survivors are cocky af because they know under normal circumstances you will not stop them from escaping...Boom, surprise son, I have remember me and noed, ez4k and SOOO much salt. I play at rank 1 btw, both survivor and killer, while I don't use noed constantly, it is fun to put it on when I see 3 toolboxes and a flashlight.
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Hmmm, maybe survivors shouldn't be lazy (gen rushing) or arrogant cause they believe the killers are weak characters (not players, characters).
Personally I love running NOED cause half the time it gets me a kill. I don't hate passing against it but I don't like seeing that first got therefore I hunt for the totems. Maps, small game or detectives hunch is a sure way to prevent NOED but in reality the totems are like the hatch, they only spawn in a few locations so after playing awhile, I usually can find them without perks.
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Lol not clickbait
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I mean, there are a lot of threads saying "Nerf leatherface" or something like that and when you enter, it's just a troll. I'm serious, NOED is balanced and people who hate NOED might think "Nah, I'm pretty sure he's just trolling", that's why I had to clarify.
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but it made you click, so.... yes, it's a little clickbaity :-D
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Noed? Barely useful at red ranks. After 1800+ hours it's never been such an issue, so i don't hate it. It's just a reason to stay on the map one minute more to make more points. Sorry bu after the 5th gen pops up, with Resilience i open the gate faster and i'm out. Noed it's the last chance to have at least one/two kills, but as i said, it's perfectly counterable cleansing the totem and BT. So, nothing to get too excited about it.
Post edited by aurum_exe on0 -
Those sirvs are mad because they got hit by it.
"If he didnt have that i'd won" etc
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their only objective is to kill really sooo no, they are doing that just fine
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aka people running NoeD are badass and the rest are try hards who need to run better perks in order to win.
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That's why I love it :-P
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You have to admit it's kinda BS when you only have time to do four totems and die on your first hook because you were touched one time the entire game. It's a perk that rewards killers for being bad.
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NOED is perfectly balanced. Killer is playing with -1 perk practicaly whole game and if you are playing vs smart survivors that cleanse totems during game, there will be no NOED after repairing last gen. I see problem in players that go gen-rush and ignore totems to repair gen as fast as possible and then die with NOED. Instead of change tactic and focus on cleansing they go cry over forum how NOED is extremely OP and trying to make their lives easier. Problem is in survivors that play for fast win and ignore objectives. Instead of gen-rushing focus on totems and you will make killer playing with 3 perks only for whole game even after all repaired gens. Survivors just have to use that circle thing on their neck and they will be totaly fine with NOED as its is now. If you are hurry to escape fast, you will be in danger of NOED because you didnt touch other objectives and focused purely on escaping.
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NOED= Weak and lazy killer. I've seen killers DC at the end because all totems was cleansed. You know at the beginning that you suck pretty much.
No respect for NOED wannabe killers.
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You're judging a killer being bad because he didn't 4k before the 5th gen pops. That's incorrect, the killer can be really good, and the map is garbage or the survivors are optimal SWF in gens. If you don't 4k before the 5th gen, doesn't mean you're bad.
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See? You told it right. Just cleanse all totems during game instead of gen-rushing and NOED is no danger and OP. Its not rewarding killer for being bad but its punishing survivors for beeing lazy doing secondary objectives and focusing purely on gen-rushing. Its same like I say that BT/DS/Adrenaline is rewarding bad survivors that get caught. Both sides have some kind of perks that are pardoning mistakes or punishing mistakes of other side.
Agree. Nowadays 5 gens can be done in 4 minutes and 4 minutes is not much time for killer to even do something.
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Honestly, noed is underpowered. I hate noed, cuz I don't found it "respectable for myself, but if BHVR change it, the forums are gonna go crazy
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Agreed. NOED doesn't proc anymore in red ranks though. In fact, I can't remember the last time NOED killed me or my teammates.
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How does it "reward killers for being bad"?
Surbivors don't automatically enter the dying state so that the killer just has to pick them up one by one once NOED activates. Survivors do need to be found and hit once, so stealth and looping are still options. If a killer was truly bad it shouldn't be much of a problem to hide or give them a good lenghty chase so the other survivors could open/99 both exits gates unpressured, right?
It is also a Hex, so the perk pretty much is in the survivors hands and can be disabled entirely. Preemptively even, so it never comes into play.
If the game goes from 0k to a 4k just because of NOED it more often than not means that the survivors were playing poorly and threw themselves at the killer.
Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and leave someone behind or take one for the team and be the martyr if things go sideways and the totem is nowhere to be found.
All in all it punishes bad survivors more than it rewards bad killers imo.
Post edited by LordCyphre on1 -
I totally agree. I've been saying for ages that it's one of the most balanced killer perks. I just don't understand why people cry about something with such an easy counter.
People cry about gen rushing all the time, yet they have a counter in NOED and choose not to use it.
I'm never mad when I get hit by it because I know it means we didn't cleanse totems. Simple as.
It makes no sense to say NOED rewards bad killers, but turn around and say second chance perks like DS are okay.
I honestly think people will never be satisfied with this game to be honest.
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Me: *sees dull totem* Noed, is that you?
Peeps in my queue: *doesn't look for totems*
Endgame
Noed: Wanna play a game?
Me: plz nu
Survivors in queue: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT NOED IT NOED OPEN GATE AND RUUUUN
Also me: *sees hooked survivor* I ain't afraid of no ghost.
My noed games in a nutshell. Hi, I'm Martyr, hru?
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Yeah noed isn't really op for the entire match its only useful for endgame
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Isn't the hatch exactly the same? Only the hatch is a game mechanic of course and survivors don't exactly need to waste a perk slot on it.
NOED is perfectly counterable, but it's nevertheless extremely annoying to play against as survivor. But then again, in this 5 minute game meta, I can see why it's being run so often now.
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*gets 4k with 3 gens left*
"Ahahaha, you're running NOED, baby killer."
Yeah - Shame I never had the chance to play with 4 perks :(
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"Adrenaline is a reward for doing the objectives, NOED is not." Well, doing gens is what you're supposed to do, you didn't do anything special or risked anything other than playing the game as you should. Imagine a perk rewarding the killer for hooking survivors, "if you did 6 hooks, a random survivor dies" that would be a reward for doing nothing but playing the game.
Not gonna lie, this point is the best I've seen made on these forums in a long time.
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It's actually not, but that's just your opinion. People win games by playing to THEIR strength, not YOURS.
So are Keys, and yet....
Killers haven't failed anything. The job's in the name, and the match isn't over just because the last gen pops, but nice try.
And to all three of you, perks exist because different play styles exist. Some prefer killing quickly, other like to stalk and play mind games. Just because you don't personally like to play with it, or it doesn't mesh with your style, doesn't make it bad.
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Seeing as MMR is being added, a "win" has to be defined in some manner
Failing to defend gens and then relying on Noed to score an easy kill should not be considered a win
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Lol
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Adrenaline is fine too
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I agree with the OP...
1. NOED is a hex, totems are there for a reason (maps are broken plz fix)
2. NOED has a place in the game (different play styles exist for every killers just like addons)
3. NOED is not a crutch (not meny killer players use it... I don't, if it were a crutch perk "80% of killers would've been using it and would've been cleansed-see what I did there-)
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Defending Gens isn't the objective. It never has been. That could only EVER have been considered the objective if you were trying to prioritize a timer system that ultimately punished Survivors for not finishing them within a given limit.
Since that's not the case, NOED can't be considered anything like what you're saying. It's intended to be a long term strategy for those who wish to draw out the game, or to assist Killers as a backup. It can also be used to punish gen rushing, and as a means to assist perks like Rancor.
Besides, those that wait to try and only score kills with it, alone, aren't going to be met with much success, but even then, it's THIER voice to play that way. It's THIER prerogative.
As to winning, if you're looking for a clearly defined measure of a win, them Survivors escaping is the only real one, aside from a 4k. Personally, I'd say even 1k could be considered a victory, given the current skew towards Survivors.
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Survivors I can see running crutches because you can't really rely on your team that much, and need some insurance in case they are potatoes.
Well killers cannot rely on the broken maps and stupid structures, and need some insurance against optimal survivors and the map in case the odds are heavily stacked against them.
Again there are 4 survivors and 1 killer, if survivors run crutch perks who commonly play in SWF groups then they have no rights to complain about NoED. If they are going to run DS, DH, Adrenaline and BT x4 with toolboxes then they seriously cannot complain about NOED.
It's not really fair to justify bad teammates as a means to run crutch perks but if the killer runs them then they are bad. There are a lot of things that can heavily stack against the killer too such as strong loops, optimal survivors, and toolboxes to name a few. Both sides have odds stacked against them and the game is definitely not in the killers hands.
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Alright but like I said if all 4 survivors are optimal then what stops them all from running the strong loops? Wretched Shop, Iron works, Disturb ward are all strong loops survivors can easily make it to, especially if they get injured and the small speed burst.
Spirit Fury can be easily countered by I don't know... dropping the pallet early and not being so greedy at loops?
Bamboozle isn't even that good and if a structure like Wretched Shop and Disturb ward has multiple windows which they do then that perk is completely useless. I hardly ever see killers running that perk and the last time someone did was when they played Vault master Myers which was 3 months ago approximately.
If you're going to call killers noobs for running crutch perks then I'm sorry but when 4 survivors can all stack second chance perks then they are equally as bad.
Lastly I never mentioned tunneling so I have no clue to why you brought it up. For me personally I chase for around 25 seconds and if nothing comes out of it such as breaking a few pallets or injuring them then I drop the chase. Even destroying a few pallets is good enough for me because I can chase a new survivors with pallets gone too.
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NOED is the perfect example of how a perk shouldnt work. Doing nothing for it to get a game changer. All killers would cry a river if survivors would have anything similar, but because its a killer thing its all fine. Double standards like always.
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