More Mori perks - here's why !
Hello fellow killers of the Fog,
Let's not lie: we all like a good Mori, do we not ? the killing animation is so much more satisfying than the Entity claiming it. You WORKED for that kill, you know what I mean ? YOU, as a Killer, should be able to claim that kill ! it's your treat !
Memento Moris are a thing, but... they're kinda unfair, and too random. You can't consider them a part of your strategy cause you only have so many, and there is no counterplay available to survivors.
Which is why we have perks - but we only have two : Rancor and Devour Hope.
Devour Hope is fun but inconsistent, and its design is frustating for one team or the other. If you lose it early, you're frustated. If the survivor team can't find it, it feels really unfair to them. Hexes are very random.
Rancor is also fun, but has another kind of flaw. Rancor is consistent, but it rewards you for losing the game - not winning it. You get what I mean ? Rancor only triggers, and I mean only (hatch closed doesn't work) if survivors repair all 5 generators which usually means you already lost.
Which is why I would like a few more options of perks that allow you to perform the beautiful killing act but doesn't require you to lose the game, even it is has complex requirements !
We are called the Killers. You guys on the team did wonders with the mori animations. Hooking them ? okay. Licking their fingers ? Tearing their tongue off ? Eating their organs ?! All these are much more exciting!
- And the best part ? killing doesn't have to be unfair.
I would be happy with a perk like this for instance, not overpowered, but making the game more interesting for the Killer :
- Thirst for Blood : each time you hook a survivor, you gain a token. If you have 7/6/5 tokens or more, you may kill with your own hands survivors that have been hooked twice.
This perk is competitively very bad, and yet I would love it so, so much if it existed. It wouldn't affect the balance of the game, either.
My point being ; a killing perk doesn't have to be unfair to the survivors, if it has the right requirements. It can even be subpar. But please ! we're playing a game that has fantastic killing animations and a role that's called the KILLER ! please, Dead by Daylight devs, let us have one or two other perks that allow us to kill. It can be bad, it can be purely aesthetic more than anything - but we want it. As KILLERS ! 😈
Comments
-
Even as little as a perk that allows you to kill the last survivor in the game, would actually make ZERO gameplay difference, would be probably very easy to code, and I would definitely run it 90% of the time, just for fun. Cause you know... you want a proper finish !
Remember what the yellow memento mori says ?
"You worked well, the last one is yours."
I think that could pretty much work as an all-killer perk. "Reward of the Fog" or something. It's just an example really, though. I don't care if the requirements are more complicated than that, I just want a way to make it work that doesn't rely too much on randomness... even if it becomes a subpar perk as a result.
Anyway, what do you guys think ? 😀
Post edited by RainbowSuperLoki on2 -
I think its a very good idea, it would be fun and i agree that when you catch someone, you have to give him/her a proper finish
1 -
Thanks for supporting the idea.
Honestly I don't really expect the team to make a perk that just allows you to consistently finish everyone with a kill animation, but if there were a few other perks that grant the ability even through specific requirements, I would try different builds and synergies to make it work consistently.
You can synergize with Rancor pretty easily actually, but the problem is that Rancor really requires you to be at disadvantage in the game to ever be able to use its effect. I think it's not really fun. And also, unlike hooking, kill animations usually fit their character's lore perfectly - which is always nice. I love honouring the Yamaoka name by ripping off the filthy tongues that badmouthed it >:}
0 -
Yeah, this is a really great idea. If the developers introduce a similar perk, then I hope that they will introduce the dismemberment into the game.
2 -
I would have Devour Hope as a passive perk, but would have raised the stakes. For a noed, 4(or 5) tokens would be needed, and for a memento, 6 tokens, for example. A completely balanced change.
1 -
I considered the exact same idea in the past, but I feel like, even if the perk does seem like it will not be broken due to the high requirements, it would still be too strong to gain permanent Exposed status on all survivors.
I would be happy, however, to get a perk that is somewhat similar to Devour Hope but only with the mori part. Basically, I'm okay with having a high requirement, and also with being able to kill only survivors who were hooked twice already ; I'm willing to work and sacrifice other perk slots to synergize just for this ! but I wish we had more ways to earn the ability to kill other than the original DH, which is definitely too random and unreliable, and also other than Rancor requires you to lose to make use of it. I don't think Rancor should be changed, but I think we should have a greater variety of perks that allow you to kill with requirements.
^ Actually, the sentence above actually pretty much sums up accurately what I wish we had.
0 -
That's a really cool idea, I play more survivor than killer but still I like that concept.
1 -
I just brainstormed a few ideas in order to give a few examples, which I believe are somewhat balanced.
No More Heroes : Whenever a survivor is unhooked, the aura of the savior is revealed to you for 2/3/4 seconds. (The perk is revealed to them the first time they unhook).
Survivors have a token count for this perk that can be seen when standing over them while they are in the Dying State. Each time they successfully unhook someone, they gain a token. Survivors are unaware of how many tokens they have.
Survivors who have 2 tokens or more are affected by the Oblivious status effect for 10/15/20 seconds.
The killer is granted the ability to kill Survivors who have 3 tokens or more for No More Heroes.
Treat of the Fog : Your hard work and diligent obedience entice the Entity to reward you for your effective ways. You're granted the ability to kill the last Survivor in the trial if you have sacrificed all others. Your enthusiasm gives you a 3%/4%/5% Haste status effect when these conditions are met.
Murderer's Urge : Your murderous ways in life carried over to your existence in the Fog. Your thirst for a kill grows more and more uncontrollable as you draw blood from your victims.
You gain a token with each successful basic attack.
4 tokens : Bloodlust levels build up 10/15/20% faster.
6 tokens : Your lunges last 5/10/15% longer.
8 tokens : Grants the ability to kill with your own hands Survivors who have reached the Struggle Phase on a hook.
0 -
I second that. (And i like to say "i second that" hehe).
More Mori Perks will be sweet. The other day i got a Daily Ritual with killing, and by luck got the Devour Hope to fully work to do so. But also used the rancor, to raise the chances. Didnt have a memento.
But about DH, I think its perfect. Nobody can complain about being moried cause you deserved it as killer: a lot of hooks without camping. And the counterplay is easy: cleanse the totem. Once you see that "exposed" by "devour hope", stop whatever you doing and go immersely to find the totems. Thats how i counter it as survivor. And plus, im a totem cleanser a lot.
And about Rancor, its perfect inside the Spirits lore. First, if helps you locate survivors and avoid better the 5 gens done. If they are done, at least you obsession will die (cause its against him your rancor, so hes the one that matters to die!). The counterplay is to leave already the match, cause the obsession will know its a Rancor when sees the killers aura in gen repairing.
So, new mori perks, yes. But Rancor and DH as just well balanced.
1 -
Thanks for supporting my idea :D
I partly agree with your statements. Rancor is still a somewhat recent perk, whereas Devour Hope is now quite an old one. I think Rancor is more well-rounded than Devour Hope is. I like Rancor as it is, actually - but I think we need a perk that is more consistent than Devour Hope and a bit less situational than Rancor. Rancor's effect can actually be relevant for more than just flair because it can get you a cheap and easy kill. I don't necessarily want new perks to also allow cheap kills, even if those can be fun, having the option only as a finisher would already be plenty good for me. (plus Rancor does fit Spirit perfectly !)
The part where I disagree with Devour Hope being "perfect" is simply that I actually feel nervous when I run it, knowing it might get destroyed at any moment. The later it gets destroyed, the more frustated I am and it ends up stressing me out a lot even as I am killing someone, knowing it is potentially in danger :')
But in one sense, Devour Hope has always been about risk/reward so I suppose you could say it is perfect. I don't really want it to change, but I would be really happy with one (or two, let's get crazy) mori perks in the year to come.
Oh, and say, what do you think a balanced and original design for a mori perk could be like ? If you have any ideas, feel free to share !
1 -
Unhappily cant think about one right now, but if i get an idea i will share. :D
0 -
The thing about Devour Hope is just that.. and it's what most Hex perks are.. Big reward VS the risk of your totem getting destroyed. It's so fun running Devour Hope and seeing all generator progression stop once you hit 3 stacks because everyone's looking for the totem.. Or reaching 5 stacks and starting to Mori people (or even better.. reaching 5 before they even know you have the perk because you downed them using other methods, or had more than one person on hook at the 3rd stack)
It's a great perk to run, fun to play, too, but so unrewarding in terms of points.. If you get 5 stacks too fast and start killing people that way, you'll be lucky if you get past 20,000 because the game will end too fast.
0 -
Yes, i aways prefered DH instead of Ruin given the offensive aspect of it. As i used to say in my streaming: "let then do the first 2 or 3 gens, and them we will see what happens". (Evil laughs)
0 -
Oh yeah me too.
Devour Hope and Third Seal are some of my favorite perks to run, because no one expects those. I never used Ruin, even before the rework, because Ruin, people know it's there from the start and will search for it right away.. if they didn't get a Ruin skillcheck then they'd just keep working on their generators and not bother looking until it was too late.
Third Seal's just for fun but once everyone's blind, it really ######### them over, I can slug or anything without them really knowing where the downed person is (or if they're not paying attention, they won't know where the hooked person is)
0 -
I like the idea but using a whole perk slot to be able to waste valuable time killing someone instead of hooking them is no good.
0 -
I don't see how killing them is a waste of time over picking them, carrying them and hooking them.
0 -
It's not that I don't like DH ; it's that I like its effect too much to tolerate the fear of losing it at any moment xD
DH has its own kind of fun but it tends to be unreliable due to its Hex nature, to balance its incredible power. I hope we'll get a less powerful but more reliable perk to kill one of these days, even if it's limited to one Survivor in the trial and has specific requirements.
Pretty much like Rancor is, actually, but I ideally want it to be slightly easier to pull off, and especially to be applicable even when you're not losing.
It doesn't really have to be that complex, either. I'd love a perk like DH with drastically reduced power, but what power it lacks it makes up for with better consistency and by ideally being a bit less situational than Rancor. If it's open for synergies, it's even better.
Though, to be fair, any perk that grants the kill ability through any means that isn't a Hex would be a yes in my book. Even if the requirements are not easy, I would definitely try and make it work if there is room for synergies with other perks, I'd happily dedicate 3 or even 4 of my perk slots to ensure I get to use it !
Post edited by RainbowSuperLoki on0 -
Because the animation for a mori can be 2-3x as long as it would take to hook them. Time is not on your side as a killer, especially nowadays.
0 -
If the person is on their second hook (or heck maybe even their first if the 5 stacks came from the other survivors) then the mori animation would still be faster than the time it would have taken to chase them again for for the next hook or two. But I guess everyone evaluates their time differently. Heck, you could run Devour Hope simply for the exposed part of it at 3 stacks, and not bother with the mori at all, nothing wrong with that too.
0 -
He said it would be after they have already been hooked twice. You'd have to down them again. You're thinking that he meant hook them once then down them again and mori, which isn't the case.
0 -
Oh right. Well in that case yes it takes longer than hooking for the sacrifice. But a mori is always fun and devour hope is fun to run for that. But to each their own, some people like it, some don't.
0 -
The 4 token effect isn't going to happen because the devs want to move away from bloodlusting, not towards it. Ideally bloodlust should be removed once the maps are more balanced.
0 -
I see your point, but I think it's a stretch. I do not deny than killing does take some time, but saying it can last 3 times as long as your regular hooking is probably an exaggeration. I agree that time is a valuable resource, but as I stated a few times, I do not necessarily expect those mori perks to be competitively relevant. It's mostly for flair if anything :)
Of course, I'd even be happier if they were good, but the very "binary" power that is killing is kinda hard to design in a way that's both interesting for the killer competitively and balanced.
I don't say it's impossible, but my expectations aren't so high, because this would probably require a lot of balancing work from the perks, whereas my request is first and foremost to allow these animations to happen more easily and often in-game, cause they're fantastic and they're also a more enjoyable experience for both players, in my opinion. (from my experience, even Survivors don't mind getting killed if it's not from a Memento Mori).
0 -
Oh, really ? Well, honestly, it was mostly a side effect meant to make the perk a little more viable outside of the mori effect. The other effects are pretty much bonuses to make the package better, but I know I wouldn't run it for these.
Always been wanting a perk that improves lunges, though. Still hope it will happen someday, even though I would still want the mori perks well above a lunge perk.
0 -
Also, what I would like to emphasize is that killing isn't always strictly inferior to hooking. The main example being that there is close to zero counterplay to it once the person is on the ground.
- The animation cannot be interrupted by fireworks or flashlights.
- Other survivors cannot bodyblock you to save the survivor.
- Even if the survivor is standing under a pallet, you don't have to fear they might be saved by someone else.
- Generally speaking, killing is a surefire way to get rid of a Survivor, and there aren't, to my knowledge, any ways to escape it other than getting back up and running.
Unless you know a way that I didn't think of, killing, though it does take a bit more time, leaves more or less no room for counterplay for the Survivors team.
0 -
You're right. Even if others are around waiting for a save, a mori can't be interrupted. And honestly, if I'm going to bring a mori perk, damn right I'm going to mori people with it! Bringing devour hope for the exposed status is fine and all but once you get 5 stacks, might as well start getting rid of people more permanently.
0 -
I agree. Nice idea.
Nothing else to say. No point to argue. You are just correct xd
1 -
I'm not even sure if it's the longest animation but I watched ghost race's and it was 14 seconds. If someone is downed next to a hook you can definitely pick them up and hook them within 5 seconds. So yes, like I said, it CAN be up to 3x as long.
0 -
I can get behind a perk that is purely for a mori without any gain, maybe it allows you to mori last survivor but you gain extra bloodpoints for doing so? They have all these awesome mori animations! But I wish I didn’t have to use a offering or try my luck with DH to get them
0 -
Sorry for the very late answer, forgot to check up here the last few days.
I see your point, but the way you set the example does make it very relevant, because you take the worst of the Mori side and the best of the hook side. If I were to use the same process, I could tell you that lifting up and hooking a Survivor to a far hook at the near end of their wiggle bar, which isn't so rare actually, can last up to 15 seconds max, including everything and that's supposing you aren't getting bodyblocked or blinded by other Survivors. On the other hand, the Pig's kill animation is very quick and gets to the point, it lasts about 6 to 7 seconds. I know even in this situation, hooking doesn't take 3x times as long, but you can see that taking a favourable case for one way and a bad one for the other isn't a very accurate way to find out if, on average, killing is that much slower than hooking. Which I don't think it is. At worst, 4 or 5 seconds on average. I don't say it amounts to nothing, but it's not that big of a deal when you know you are not at risk of getting blinded or stunned on a pallet. By the way, in some locations, it is impossible to cover your face from flashlights while lifting up. Saying that just in case someone would bring it up.
0 -
Thank you both for your support, I appreciate it a lot ^v^
I feel the same about DH. I like the idea behind the perk, but I end up frustrated because all I am really hoping for with it is that kill power, and when it gets cleansed I feel like my other perks are just sitting there with zero fun value.
Rancor is better in my opinion but when I win a game, I never get to use it, and even though I'm very much fine with that second part, it only allows you to kill one Survivor, and you can't combine it with other kill perks because there aren't any yet!
Could be fun to have a few other perks to diversify the strategies you can use to get that finish treat. I don't necessarily expect them to be easy to use, but I just want more ways to do it ! I randomly noticed the other day that the two kill perks happen to belong to two female killers. Could be fun to have a new male killer that brings his own kill perk too, tied to his lore/character in the way it works. Hope we'll get that at some point !
0 -
The mori is the best part of this game to me. I would definitely love a mori perk that was fair and wasn't a totem or end game thing.
0
