One condition to make NOED more fair
NOED activates only if the Killer at least first hooked all Survivors.
This should make Killers more interactable and prevent them from "1 camped, other NOEDed" tactic.
Comments
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I think NOED is completely fair as it is, it's easy to remove from the game by getting all the totems and if the killer is camping one person then there's plenty of time to do that.
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Doubt it.
Also have fun finding them all on Lery's/Hawkins without a Map, Small Game or Detective's Hunch to prevent NOED while someone is getting camped.
People don't mind the exposed part of the perk. What people want is a requirement from the Killer to activate it. Could be anything, really. I just hate how this perk rewards those that chase/tunnel one survivor the whole game.
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NOED is fine. Balance DS.
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The whole game?!?! Dude the thing doesn't activate until the game is over, what....are we even playing the same game?
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The killer has 4 perk slots and gives one up for most of the match to have a slight chance of NoEd to activate. A group of Survivors have a total of 16 perk slots. One of them could surely afford to use Detectives Hutch or Small Game. Heck, you don’t even have to use a perk, something called a “Map” exists:
The requirement of the Killer is for the Killer to have a more difficult match by playing with only 3 perks. Anyone who complains about NoEd is just a lazy player or a really bad one. It isn’t hard to look for totems. Instead of bringing in multiple toolboxes, bring in a map or two.
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What? I never said the perk is active from the beginning?
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I don't think it needs a change, I personally just keep an eye out for it and it makes it more fun when the killer still has it at the endgame. However, some totems in the new Lery's are so disguised I would need a perk or map to find them spot on.
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I think you misunderstood, they meant you can practically tunnel one survivor without checking any gens and get it to proc.
I don’t agree nor disagree, just stating what I think they meant.
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Could still use a totem counter for survivors. Or a perk similar to TotH that has a totem counter built in. Solo survivors have a much harder time with ensuring totems have been done. A simple perk, or addon to an existing perk, would do wonders. Would truly be no Avenue of complaint then.
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You really need someone in addition to what you already have...to help you count to 5?
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Balance both? Lmao
NOED is literally DS for killers, both reward you for your opponent playing well and require no effort or plan to be activated.
How the hell am I supposed to know how many totems did my teammates do?
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The only issue I have with the NOED v DS comparison is that DS is used to help a survivor not get tunneled once. I dont know of a fairer way to do that...
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Except, it's not DS for killers.
NOED can be prevented completely from ever even existing. Can DS? (spoiler - the answer is no).
Detectives hunch. Rainbow maps. Small game. They all assist with this.
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I think thats too much, how about:
You can use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked previously
I dont think its fair compared to, for example, Devour Hope. There is no hint that killer has NOED, you need to cleanse all 5 dull totems to prevent it from activating, it requires no tokens from the killer or any other type of effort, you can literally camp 1 person all the game and you still get to use NOED.
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There's no hint? Killer movement speed says hello. It's a HUGE tell.
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Its very simple. DS should get buffed (remove Skillcheck, timer PAUSED while in Chase), BUT DS should disable if:
- You are the last survivior not dead/hooked/downed
- You performed any action (except vaulting) for more than 1 second
- Another DS got activated
- You stepped into a Bear Trap
- 2 other people were downed in the meantime (- 30s for every down)
Problem solved, DS cant be used if you are not tunneled, but also chasing the person with DS will pause the timer, so Killer cant tunnel.
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Or! Or! Or! Hear me out now! This is going to sound crazy! but maybe use your perks or tools ie. Maps to find totems and cancel out NOED all together!!
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You just need to git gud , is a fine perk , don't run to doors and you will probably notice there is noed in place
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I mean while its not active yet.
You can see that Devour Hope is in the game if Ruin, Thrid Seal or Lullaby do not appear but you can still see Hex totem, NOED is just invisible. Not to mention that Devour increases your speed after unhook, so you can spot the speed increase at 1 stacks already.
Once NOED is active its quite late to cleanse totems.
I dont have problem with that part, like I said above you should be able to use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked previously and that would solve the problem for me.
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Oh, but it is DS for killers.
Both of them reward failure, and DS also can be countered.
By slugging the person for 60 seconds, leaving them alone for 60 seconds or tunnel on purpose and eat the DS early.
Its just as absurd and wastes you just as much time and potential pressure as searching for all 5 dull totems or having to use perks and red items just for that purpose.
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Your logic is broken. There are situations where DS can never be avoided. NOED can always be avoided. End of discussion. NOED is fine.
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Putting DS aside, why are you opposed to having NOED work only on people you previoisly hooked? Any player can afford to get 3 or 4 BBQ stacks even in a losing game, so it wouldnt affect NOED for them. The only people who would lose somerhing here would be complete noobs and hard campers/tunnelers.
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I personally don't use NOED. I'm just tired overall of seeing killer things that are already balanced get nerfed because the people asking for nerfs don't know what balance is, and just want easy games. It's the principle of the matter.
It's perfectly balanced, it's high risk, high reward, and it's existence is controlled by the other team. It's not even close to overpowered. It's not even in the same universe.
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Don’t gen rush and do totems you will be fine
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Detective's Hunch is very good for totems. I use to play small game but after that buff it's way better.
(Also paired with Inner Strenght) :3
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You cleanse totems throughout the trial to prevent it. That's not fair to you?
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Im not saying its overpowered, Im saying that it could be changed so that campers and bad players cant benefit from it. Its not going to change anything for people who dont use it as a crutch.
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I think adding a totem counter would be sufficient. SWF don't need it anyway, so it would affect only solos.
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There is a direct counter to noed. Use it. Or do you want notifications now where all totems are without a perk?
Want AI bots as killers?
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Again - destroy totems. That's literally all you have to do. I escape 8/10 games as survivor and always tend to either destroy all 5 totems, or find destroyed ones and destroy the remaining ones. NOED doesn't need rebalancing, it's already balanced, and I'm pretty sure survivors can at least count to 5. Nothing needs to be done to it; and campers are punished as it is. They get less points overall; even still, camping is a legitimate playstyle.
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But its still way more work than for a normal Hex
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Again, I know its not that strong, I just want to make it less useful for hard campers.
If you are camping 3 people in the basement or camping in EGC its completely different than when you camp 1st person you catch for the whole game.
Fist 2 would be able to use NOED normally, only hard campers that dont hook anyone else for the whole game would see a difference. There is nothing wrong about that, especially since NOED is already way more insidious and hard to counter than Devour Hope for example.
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How the hell did you deduce that you should get notifications about Hex perks from that comment you quoted? He literally said nothing about it.
Please at least try to read comments before replying to them
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Crazy idea; Have an ACTUAL perk, one that's useful throughout the entire game, such as Save the Best For Last, and LEARN TO NOT RELY ON A SINGLE DUMB PERK.
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Survivors are not going to do all generators and all totems in the 2 minutes it takes someone to die on hook.
Not to mention if the survivors don’t attempt a rescue they get punished for it with a penalty to altruism (great design).
So you can camp one person out, start camping a second before all the gens/totems are done and easily get a third person with NOED if the survivors didnt manage to get every totem.
Whats the point in killers trying to play normally, when camp and NOED for most games will be a pretty safe bet on at least a 2k?
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Isn't the game already easy enough for survivors? Put your nerf bats down already and man the ######### up!
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You can slam all gens in 3 mins but NOED is the issue...okay.
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I agree about the totem placement, which has become a lot more difficult on the reworked maps.
I know it sucks for a killer when a hex totem is quickly found and cleansed. But it also sucks for survivors when a hex totem can't be found, or even stays active the whole match.
Totems should be placed so they are not obvious and moderately difficult to spot. Ideally, a totem should be enclosed from three sides. A survivor should be able to see it if they walk past it.
But on the reworked maps, they are often recessed in small, L-shaped alcoves. So a survivor could walk close by it and not see it. You can only find these with a perk, such as Small Game or Detective's Hunch. With such difficult to find totems, it's Devour Hope that you really need to worry about!
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They don’t want to count or search for totems. They just want an easy escape. Never mind that the maps are designed in favor of Survivors. It’s not enough that killers slow down when they vault or break a pallet. Nor is it enough that you can blind a killer and take them through loops that are placed near more loops which are designed to waste a killers time.
A Killer could play perfectly, but if the Survivor doesn’t screw up, there really isn’t any chance the killer would be able to catch them. Unless it’s a lucky Trapper or Nurse. But yea, let’s make the game easier for the already easy role.
Counting to 5 and equipping maps instead of toolboxes is hard.
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Detectives Hunch pretty much gives you a minor totem counter. You have a pretty big radius to see where and if totems are still left. All you have to do is to be at the right edges of the map when 3 of the 5 gens finish, and you have complete awareness. I run that with Inner Strength and have almost no game where I run into NOED. And they said they rework Small Game (at least it is on the list), maybe it gets a totem counter. But for now, if you really struggle with a single new map, where it is normal to learn the totem spots for some time (until you can find all of them within a minute), just run Detectives Hunch
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You can keep your childish insults to the playground at school considering you are ignoring the fact that a solo survivor has no idea how many other players have found. Add in the fact that running around looking specifically for totems and ignoring hens will greatly increase your chances of being seen by the killer.
Lastly, I am speaking from a solo balance standpoint only. Mainly because I play killer 90% of the time and I actually listen to survivors that have sensible ideas. The idea of a counter added to a perk makes sense. By your "logic", BHVR believes us killers can't count to 5 because they gave us a counter on TotH.
Try adding something useful to the conversation or just stay on the playground with the other kiddies.
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So, two perks and an ultra rare item in every match is the answer? Nice try.
Any of those alone can help, but you don't know how many are left out there. That is the point I'm making. Merely from a solo player's perspective. I run TotH for extra BP and I constantly see 1 to 2 totems left in groups of solos. Even if they run those perks. If we get a totem counter just to track the BP bonus, why not a perk that does the same but with larger implications for survivors.
Besides, anything that encourages survivors to get off gens and find the last totem or two is great. Slows the game down that much more. I only run NOED in end game builds, so it is pure benefit for most killers who don't run NOED.
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Because it should be a challenge for survivors to find the totems that could completely shut down a Killers perk. Giving survivors a totem counter would just make it too easy. You’re not meant to be “sure” if you got all the totems, you’re supposed to be weary of them until you have confirmed that 5 totems have been destroyed.
Adding a totem counter would just make the already easy role in Dbd even easier. Should survivors glow a bright hot pink in order to let the killer know that they have DS or BT? All you really need to counter Hex Totems is Small Game or Detectives Hunch. You can also discuss cleansing totems in the pregame chat. You and your teammates can also equip Inner Strength.
Asking for a totem counter is just asking the Devs to nerf killers even more and to make the game easier for Survivors. You just don’t want to counter a Killers perk with one of your own perks.
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I'm sure you don't rely on Borrowed Time to "reward failure" aka provide a counter to a easy to use strategy that completely swings the game in one side's favor.
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So it should be challenging for surviviors but not for the killer? Where is the balance? NOED, unkile Devour does not need ANY tokens, you can literally do NOTHING all game and still get NOED at its full power.
You should be able to use NOED only on surviviors that you have hooked before, just like Moris work now.
This would not stop NOED from being a challenge to surviviors, but it would require killer to do something other than camping one person for the whole game if the want their NOED. Why do you think noobs use NOED and not Devour Hope.
Also you are overreacting with the rotem counter. If both sides had it, Hex perks and NOED would become more reliable for killers (you can defend the last dull totem) and more reliable to find for SOLO surviviors, closing the gap between solo and SWF. So both sides benefit and we can nerf SWF. Thats a win for everyone.
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you realize theres an addon for green maps to track killers belongings right?
also I never said you had to run both perks. just one . please dont put those words in my mouth. Also, if you learn how totems spawn and the locations they spawn you wont need those items or perks. it's that simple.
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You act as if the Killer just stands in place for the whole match and does nothing until NoEd activates. They don’t, they have to play the match with only 3 active perks vs 16 active Survivor perks. If the Killer didn’t work throughout the match, the Survivors would be able to open the gates and safely unhook any teammates that may have fallen to NoEd. The killer would still have had to hook people throughout the match in order to be able to kill everyone in endgame with NoEd.
Even if the Killer camped one survivor for the whole game, the remaining 3 should have no problem escaping when the gens are done. All they have to do is run DS and BT.
Killers use NoEd because games go by too fast for Devour Hope. A lit totem stands out more than a dull one. They usually get cleansed at the start of the match. When I run Devour Hope and get enough tokens to one hit down a player, it gets cleansed within 30 seconds to a minute.
And no, I am not over reacting in regards to the totem counter. Part of the risk of Hex Totems is the uncertainty of them for both roles. The Killer can’t be certain that NoEd could even last long enough to get one person. Survivors aren’t certain that they got all the totems, and have to risk spending a little time making sure they got them.
You say you want to close the gap between SWF and Solo, but if you were honest with yourself you would admit that it’s just a cop out. You just want NoEd nerfed because you feel entitled to survive if you managed to get all the generators completed. News flash, you’re not. The games not over until you cross the threshold. You’re not entitled to walking out risk free because you held M1 for most of the match.
Stop being lazy and entitled. All you have to do is sacrifice a perk slot for the same perk slot that Killers give up for most of the match. You also have the option for immersive play during endgame to make sure NoEd isn’t active or to find the totem. You just don’t want to.
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I think NOED shouldnt activate if every survivor does a totem or two.
Oh wait, that's how it works.
Do bones.
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Man DBD went from a fun horror game of cat and mouse to a "I want ALL the information spoon fed to me, and I want it NOW!"
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