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One condition to make NOED more fair
Comments
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No. You need to go back and read the whole conversation.
They said how are they supposed to find all the totems on Lery's ect?
At which point i mentioned the notification part. He cant find them so it was a hypothetical question. Do you want notofications on totem placments to make it easier to find them?
Go back and read it.
I did read the comments. Maybe you should refrain from commenting yourself if you are just goign to butt in like that
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Heres a thought, if another player has been hooked ds goes away entirely. Then its equal
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Yeah its pretty bad that i can down and hook another while they still retain their DS.
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Man if you guys think NOED is unbalanced now, you can tell you're newbies, cause it was way worse back in the day. It wasn't always a hex.
Just cleanse totems, lol. It's perfectly fine. Git gud.
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They are too busy with the gens to even think about it. I do my part and cleanse. Most others wont. I will get two totems a game. Sometimes three. Then get slugged with noed cos they were too busy and in a rush to get out.
As a solo you really have to be selfish. With bond i see people hiding in lockers near the exit gate as i risk my neck to open for us. Fine, if i get chased they can open the gates. But not with noed. Its a down near the gate and then game over for others as well.
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I mean, strictly speaking DBD isn't a team game. Team work is required, but you don't get points if your team mates escape. So play selfish. I destroy totems every game. Every single game.
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God forbid you learn new maps.
The requirement is that you play through the whole game with only 3 perks. If you are having issues with Killers that are only using 3 perks, start looking at your own skill before trying to decide if something is balanced or not.
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I'm just lazy
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That's a you problem. Not a NOED problem. Git gud.
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Yes, he can stand the whole match doong nothing an NOED will still activate. Thats the problem. You act as if hard camping doesnt exist, you can down 1 person (1-2 minutes) and then camp them to death (2 minutes). Its literally impossible for 3 normal surviviors to do 5 gens AND cleanse 5 dull totems in that time (3-4 minutes) This means that the killer (Billy, Spirit, Nurse, Bubba, Myers, Ghostface) will have more than enough time to down 1 more person before they finish the 5th gen. This means that there are are only 2 surviviors left and they cant "genrush the camper" because NOED, cant save the camped guy because camping, so they have to give up on the camped guy and go cleanse totems.
So basically, there are only 2 possibilities:
- Camper camps 1 guy, gets genrushed, gets NOED, has almost 100% chance of getting 1 more guy with NOED, then camps him to death. (Result: 2 kills)
- Camper camps 1 guy, doesnt get genrushed because surviviors are looking for totems, Camper camps 2nd guy, totems get finally cleansed, killer gets genrushed, NOED does not activate, Camper doesnt get any more kills. (Result: 2 kills)
So its 2 kills either way.
I am not against NOED being insidious or being anti genrush perk. The problem is that NOED is insidious AND requires no effort from the killer. If you could use NOED only on people you have hooked before, then it would stop campers from using NOED, but it would still be a good anti genrush perk, nothing would change here.
Please dont add some wierd ideology to my comments if you can. I play both killer and survivior, and I have issues with both survivior perks (eg: DS) and with killer perks (eg: NOED). So why I want NOED changed?
- As a Killer: I feel like NOED gives me many unfair kills (I used it as a crutch when I started playing killer) so I want it changed so that camper and bad players (like I was) can use it to het cheap, easy, undeserved kills. If NOED worked only on surviviors you have hooked before, then NOED would work only if surviviors werent cautiuos and tried to genrush me (like it should be).
- As a Survivior: again, I dont want to get 1 hooked by a camping, walking Nurse with NOED. Its just not fair. I can cleanse totems, but like I explained above, NOED + camping is GUARANTEED 2 kills.
- As a Survivior and Killer: I generally want the game to be balanced, without bullshit perks like DS and NOED. And balancing survivior is very hard because of SWF. So closing the gap between Solo and SWF surviviors would allow for more freedom in buffing or nerfing surviviors.
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I still like the idea of extra dull totems being added to the map and the killer can move hex totems to wherever they please as long as a dull totems remains. The thought I had for NOED to have a synergy with that concept was that for every dull totem remaining on the map the exit gate has 2 seconds added to the timer..
I saw some things about DS as well.. people might hate me for saying it but the Devs did a pretty good job (no joke intended lol)
It can’t be compared to NOED though.. maybe to Dead Hard.. it’s a get out of jail free card if you get to use it.. I sometimes only run DS or MoM because if nobody has an obsession perk then the killer won’t worry about DS. I also either have my timer run out while doing a gen or get left on the ground and heal up... happens quite a bit.
When you’re the killer and they DS you at the gate, that’s what Blood Warden is for;p helps ease the pain.
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You keep saying "dO bOnEs" even though it has nothing to do with OPs idea (or mine)
My idea is that you should be able to use NOED only on surviviors you have previously hooked (just like mori)
This way surviviors still have to do bones, the only exception is if they are agains a potato killer that camps 1 person for the whole game.
OP had similiar idea, but I think it is a bit too extreme.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with doing bones.
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I dont think just hooking another person is enough. You could slug the DS guy, chase the unhooker, down him, hook him and then get the guy that had DS...
My idea for DS is:
DS timer is paused while in chase BUT
DS GOES AWAY WHEN:
- You do any action (except vaulting)
- You get caught in a Bear Trap
- You are the only person that is NOT dead/slugged/hooked/escaped/DCed
- Another DS activates
- 2 other people get downed (-30 seconds of the timer per down)
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Its not 3 perks. Its 3 perks and a 4th perk that forces surviviors ro get of gens and look for totems. So its basically on a Ruin level. Dont talk as if NOED does nothing. It does its work even if its not in the game, just like DS.
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You clearly have not read anything I've written, or you have horrible reading comprehension. I never said that killers just stand there, unless they are face camping. I've never said NOED should be nerfed. I've actually argued against nerfing it. I've said that there should be a perk for survivors that let them have a totem count, just like we have with TotH.
What I also said is that I think basic use of NOED can develop a crutch mentality. If you are using it as a safety net vs fast gens, you are using it as a crutch. I'm not a great killer, and severely colorblind to where I have to hunt by movement on most maps, but I 4k in red ranks with no NOED just fine with Trapper. If I'm mediocre as killer and have no problem getting 3-4k without NOED, then it is clearly not needed to stop gen speeds. If you are using it for that, it is a crutch and you'll never get better at killer while using it. (I know, I used it as that in the beginning and eventually let it go...took the training wheels off.)
That said, NOED is a crucial part of end game builds. I do enjoy using it as is in those builds. I have several builds where NOED is a key part and I do enjoy running them from time to time.
So, recap:
- NO NOED nerf
- Solo survivors having a perk that gives a totem counter would be a good step for them and not unbalancing at all
- If you depend on NOED to counter gen speed, quit using it and get better
- NOED is a key part of many end game builds.
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Would not make it easy at all. Still have to find the totems. If anything, it might benefit the average killer who does not care about NOED when survivors are running around ignoring the final gens in order to get that counter to zero.
Are we not wanting gen speed lowered and survivors to do other objectives? This feeds right into that!
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You say its simple but....I think a lot of these fluff threads are coming from an influx of bad survivors. Doesn't make any sense to me. I've been BTFO'd multiple times with noED in my kit by survivors that weren't dumb. But this.....theres gotta be something in the water making survivors this bad to call for more nerfs. Small game is one of my go to perks as a survivor and its DEADASS easy to find totems with it even as an oblivious non survivor main. I would imagine an actual survivor player be so damn keen on spawns they'd know where the direction of every totem is as soon as the game loads in.
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Lol get good. NOED is never an issue for me as survivor, but that's probably because I have an average ability of skill to cleanse totems. It's not rare that the 5 totems (yeah there is only 5) are all gone in the first 2 minutes of a trial.
NOED, and every Hex perk are the weakest perks in the game in my opinion. I don't even use them on my killers they are so useless and pointless.
The requirement is playing the whole trial with 3 perks, and then in most cases not even getting to use your 4th. Unless the survivors are "potatos" and don't know to cleanse totems - then and only then do you get to use NOED. Which then is simply countered by cleansing the Totem or escaping. It's a punishment perk, it's not a reward, it's not a base perk. It's a punishment perk, and it's built to punish survivors for playing poorly.
So if your issue is NOED then get good, and stop complaining. Everyone here with even a merit of skill is laughing at the people complaining about NOED.
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I just said that the slowdown caused by surviviors having to cleanse all dull totems is enough for NOED to be considered as a 4th perk. And thats before it even activates.
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Can you make one for me pls?
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Huh, Save The Best For Last is useless untill you reach 6 stacks at least, so I don't know what's your point.
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You're not cleansing totems anyways?
See this is my point lul
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lol I didnt make it , some other user made it for me 😂
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If you run small game and are on Gideon Meat that simple totem find can turn into 30 seconds or longer if the killer is around. Small games seem to take into account both the upstairs and the downstairs. Meaning it notifies and then you have to figure out if it is upstairs or downstairs. 30 seconds as surv. And that is the short version. While i am all for survs spending time away from gens i have been so confused by small game that i stopped running it as i was wasting time and not being on gens.
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Personally I think NoEd should be a a standard part of kit on every killer. Like base. that way it will encourage survivors to remove all totems before the end game or be punished. This will slow the game down and punish people who get Gen's just a little too quickly. A secondary objective is exactly what this game needs.
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Are you opposed to this? Is your enjoyment seriously squatting on generators with no other objective in sight?
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In this scenario a killer will not benefit, and will derank. I think instead of punishing bad play like we already are isn't going to change that, instead we should incentivize good play which we already do. All you need to do is just remove a totem, literally you are giving the killer power by ignoring them. If a killer hardcamps then they will likely lose a pip and you'll be less likely to see them.
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I totally disagree. You can’t waste time running around totem hunting while the killer is camping someone to death. I thought the counter to camping was “just do gens?!” I mean, the hooked survivor is likely to just suicide, rightfully so I might add, if the team isn’t all on gens to punish the camper. They are just wasting their time at that point. If you were camped, would you be cheering on survivors who were running around cleansing? I really doubt it, like everyone else youd probably be yelling for them to get on a gen! You can’t counter camping and counter NOED at the same time. One eliminates the other.
I believe only survivors who have been previously hooked should become exposed to NOED. It’s fair and means the camper would likely get no benefit.
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My reading comprehension is fine, I have read everything you wrote, all it is is just you whining about doing totems and not wanting to sacrifice the perk slot to counter NoEd while wanting to be buffed to swf levels. You just have an honesty problem. It is not about balance, it is about making the game easier for survivors. Why not ask to buff killers to counter swf first, and then buff solo survivors? Its because you want an easier time as a survivor.
A totem counter is a nerf to NoEd because it completely removes it's uncertainty. You are not supposed to be sure if you got all the totems until after it activates. You want to increase your odds of finding the totems, ask your teammates in chat to equip totem finding perks or maps - that would drastically increase your odds in finding all the totems.
You say Killers don't have to do anything to get kills with NoEd, but you are wrong. They have to chase Survivors and to hook them three times in order to kill them, but they have to do it with only three perks if they bring in NoEd. You getting caught and camped before NoEd activates doesn't make NoEd unbalanced or OP, it just means you are bad at looping or you made a bad mistake.
You shouldn't be getting caught before 2 gens are completed with how fast gens are repaired these days. Heck, by the time the Killer walks across the map, one generator should pop, unless they have corrupt intervention. By the time the first person is caught, your team should already be halfway through the third generator. At the very minimum, they should be starting the third generator while one looks for totems. So if a Killer catches you, your time on the hook should give your team enough time to finish the gens if they decide to camp you.
You as a Survivor are not entitled to have a Killer play the game they way you want them to. If they choose to camp and use NoEd, then all you have to do is improve your looping skills and bring in perks that discourage camping. You can also bring in keys to make sure you can escape with immersive game play.
Instead of asking the Devs to make the game easier for Survivors, ask the players to get better at the game.
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Don't use all meta perks then? You just listed counters to noed you can use instead of BT, DS, DH, UB
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If NOED didnt exist, then there would be no need to cleanse dull totems...
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Requiring to hook someone first to NOED them would promote good play. Literally no one except campers would be affected by this change.
There is no downside to this change, at least I dont see one and no one has pointed out any up to this point.
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No, I just dont like that NOED has strongest peotection out of all Hexes AND requires no effort from the killer. If it required effort it would be perfectly fine for me. For example if you could NOED only people you have hooked before.
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In swf on coms I agree. Solo q is a different story, and u know it.
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You sir, clearly can't read. I've said a thousand times that NOED is fine. I've also said that a perk that gives survivors a totem counter will solve all solo survivor complaints about NOED.
You seem to think I'm a f'ing survivor, but I'm not. I even talk about using NOED in my builds.
Please, go slap your teacher for failing you.
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Then gen speed would be even more a problem, see my point yet? Nothing needs to happen with NOED. That's the same purpose of DS.
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You're right. I don't. Never used it.
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Wow the perk that says "play with one less perk until the part of the game where you are definately probably going to lose the game, heres a power you can use for like 30 to 45 seconds tops and MAYBE hit one person while everyone else leaves because they know its up now." Really rewards you for tunneling 1 person all game, with another kill! Wow its like if you only get 2 kills a game you will depipp as killer and downrank.
Get real man. You can counter NOED by leaving the map, cleansing totems, or literally any exhaustion perk to not get hit. People complain about NOED because they get caught and then their team mates leave because they also dont want to get hit, because everyone gen rushed and didnt cleanse any totems.
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STBFL can help speed up your chases throughout the whole game. Yes, you need stacks, but it has an effect from the start and lasts throughout the game.
Not the best example, but also kind of besides the point. I'd prefer to have a perk that lasts me the entire game, outside of hexes, than one that is a single use or endgame reliant.
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If the killer is camping then there isnt enough time for 3 survivors to do 5 gens and 5 totems
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You sir can't comprehend the fact that a totem counter isn't just a nerf to NoEd, it is a nerf to all Hex perks. Part of the reason that Hex Perks are effective is that they are an uncertainty and will make Survivors question whether or not they should cleanse totems- even if the Killer doesn't bring in a Hex. Take that uncertainty away and give Survivors an easy way to keep track of totems will all but guarantee that Killers will never be able to get any use from totems.
There is no reason to give a totem counter other than to make the game easier for survivors. Until the Devs completely overhaul the mechanics of the game and balance everything around top tire killers and swfs, there is no reason to include one.
Also, most complaints about NoEd aren't about the difficulty to find its totem, they're complaints because they don't want to be bothered with spending time looking for it or even thinking about it.
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Again, if they spend more time on totems, that is better for killers at large. Every bit of time not spent on a gen is good for us. If you rely on NOED, it might be a nerf to you. The threat of NOED and the carrot a counter perk gives to survivors to get off the gen and hunt totems is a good thing.
In all likelihood they would still ignore totems and would have absolutely no Avenue of crying.
I'm always looking at things to get survivors off of gens. The answer is not in nerfing survivor or killer, but in incentivizing new behavior. If they offered double BP for totems, I'd be good with that. It helps me as a killer.
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Can you ask them for me? It'd be an honor! 😂
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I agree that the more time Survivors are off of generators the better, but it shouldn't be with a totem counter- that would just make things easier for them, which they definitely don't need. I'd rather they offer triple blood points for totems instead but increase the time to cleanse them.
As for balancing, it the maps that need to be reworked more than anything. Yea, some Killers need some fixing, but most of the problems Killers face is the lack of ability to pressure gens due to how large (stupid corn fields) the maps are.
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If we are being honest with ourselves, some of the biggest barriers to balance is the whiney community. There are many killers I see with really bad habits and lazy play styles that complain about gen run but zero in on one survivor the whole time. Then there are survivors who complain about killer's being OP but they run to dead zones, blow up gens, sandbag, train the killer onto nearly completed gens and otherwise play like potatoes.
Until the forums get over the us vs them mentality and starts pushing for true balancing for both sides of the game, it will continue to languish. All anyone here wants to see is the other side get nerfed, which only opens up a new can of worms.
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I can't disagree with anything you've written. I don't think Killers and Survivors need any nerfs or buffs in general. Some things need a little reworking, but that is about it. Also, don't hold your breath waiting on the forums to change, it wont.
Also, David needs a speedo buff. We need to see more of his body 😘
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You do know that NoEd is a perk that makes you play with only 3 perks the ENTIRE GAME and can be denied or destroyed again by survivors. It's a perk YOU have control over. Get off the gen and do totems or get spanked simple as that.
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swf are too busy running the latest greatest meta perks to bother with an old solo staple like bond. If you run bond you dont need a medkit and you can avoid bringing the killer to the one guy who might be working on a gen.
They need to release themselves of their shackles and lose the training wheels. I barely take self care now cos i run bond. With bond you will see crap that will make your head spin.
People hiding in lockers at the start of the game till somebody gets hit then they start looking for gens a minute into the game. people hiding in lockers cos they dont want to get caught and dont want to do gens but would love to get the hatch. As if that 7k points is going to do you any good.
I cant loop well but i can keep one at bay 1 min or so. Maybe a minute 30 if i am lucky. But even i know that this is not a horror hide and seek game anymore. If i am chased i have to do my bit to by us, as a team, time for you to do gens. So if you are not doign gens while i am gettign chased i am not goign to be a happy bunny. I had to learn how to get better at keepign the killer at bay. Some find this easy and pick it up right away. Not me. Took many hours. I am 1500 hours in now and still can only do my little bit to buy time.
The game has changed into a i am in your face and can loop you as long as i am able to kind of game where they get the most points and gen jockets like me end up with measly points for doing a lot of work.
I am happy to see that the MM does take roles into account it seems. I, as a solo, have been placed with team that are able to loop and give me time to do 2,3 or even 4 gens at times. I am great on gens and am stacking up the greats. Well, i was till i took a break.
Anyway...this rant more or less was not aimed at you directly ...sorry. First sentence only applies...rest is just a monologue i guess :)
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Well, if it helps, when my sons, wife and I play we usually run the worst perk combos around. My son loves meme builds like No Mither, Self Care, Adrenaline, and Botany Knowledge with a med kit. We usually end up with pretty toxic killers though and my sons quit playing. Nothing being camped to death with a meme build on over and over.
This game has a way of pushing out the players that just want to goof off and have fun.
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