To the People who say Key is Fair
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Bro, you have nothing. You're the one who continues to use the word underpowered. Do you think they are underpowered? You must. You can't seem to stop using the word, and you're literally the only one using it.
Spoiler: You'll never win this. Back away slowly.
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@MegMain98 4 keys ouch. First time I’ve ever seen that.
Unless you stop them doing 3 gens they’re basically guaranteed an escape no matter what.
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Does that word trigger you?
Ok let's step away from that word since it upsets you so much. Let's use one that you have used.
I'll just repeat what I said earlier since you've conveniently sidestepped it.
Calling something powerful then giving it a low score on power is contradictory...is it not?
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It didn't trigger me in the least. I'm fine with it. It's you who seems to harbor an obsession with it. I would look into that. Seems like an issue. I didn't sidestep the word. I didn't even use the word.
Something can be powerful, and not good at the same time. This is what you're not grasping. You just keep swinging off the nutsack of a word that I never used o.O
It's actually worrying at this point.
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Literally playing the most overpowered and easy killer in the game and complaining about keys lmfao.
How to play spirit, put on a pair of headphones.
And two of them still died? I bet you more would have gotten out if it was 4 toolboxes instead.
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"Something that can be powerful but not good at the same time"...does that apply to mori's and keys based on your earlier assessment? Are they not good?
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The Key requires you to make it to endgame.
Which means you'll have to play more passively to avoid getting focused, since most games aren't 4 kills or 4 escapes.
If you avoided chases and didn't go for risky play, you probably did really bad in the altruism and evader categories... so yeah running a key usually punishes you
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They are powerful, and not good at the same time, yes. They have huge downsides.
If you run a key, you're likely to get tunneled and not even get to use it.
If you run a mori, you're severely penalized for using it in terms of emblem/objective.
Honestly, bud, just stop. Your obsession is starting to freak me out.
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You can tunnel mori people with the Ivory at red ranks and still pip just fine, assuming the rest of the people don't suicide because of it. There is literally no downside.
You can tunnel mori 3 people and still black pip fine, easy 4k even at red ranks. Just use whispers so you always 4k.
I tombstone 2 people and black pip 4k all the time.
But it's a "severe" penalty to black pip while you depip the entire lobby and they get like 3-5k points each right?
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Ok fine, I'll stop.
I figured having a discussion with someone with opposing thoughts would be interesting. It was fun while it lasted.
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Awww baby...did you get your ass handed to you by too many Spirit’s? It must suck to be bad.
I play on console. Spirit is literally the only killer who can compete with 4 keys/4 toolboxes. I didn’t even notice the keys until the saw the score board. They kept swapping between survivors in the lobby so I had no idea.
I played normally and without any powerful add-ons. If I DID know they had four keys then I would’ve put on spicier add-ons and a mori. Keys are completely broken.
If you can defend 4 keys and say that because I playing Spirit I don’t have a right to complain then you are delusional. Wake up. Keys are completely stupid. Only way to kinda counter them is by putting the BS on the killer side. Which is a mori.
By the way....four (good) toolboxes are more powerful than keys if they split up gens.
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How do you know you depipped the entire lobby? If you're doing that at red ranks, those survivors are boosted to all hell and shouldn't have been in red ranks to begin with; and yes, you can pip with an ivory mori at red ranks, if you 3 hook everyone else after, and keep your gatekeeper and chaser emblems high, which is a lot easier to do without using the mori. As for mori-ing 3 people - I'd like to see you record a game for me of you black pipping with 3 mori's in a game at rank 1. I'm genuinely curious how you managed to do what so many other established killers have such a hard time doing.
Since you do it all the time, it should be easy for you.
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They kept swapping between survivors in the pre-lobby so I had no idea they had four keys. At the end I assumed at least one had a key due to the Kate waving over her last teammate and gen progression stopped.
I still killed half of the team and they only got out due to a key. So it’s whatever
I guess I can’t complain about four keys though since people think Spirit is overpowered and the easiest killer in the game. Darn. Should’ve played better.
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Yeah, she's the most played killer at red ranks because she is bad. You just put on stridor and collect your free downs because she is a bad killer.
I hardly play spirit because I like there being some challenge in my killer games. I'm sorry you need to crutch on overpowered killers, then have to complain about powerful survivor items. I bet you think Freddy is balanced too?
And keys are fine for solo Q survivors. Killers have soooo many crutches (like spirit) to call upon that I can hardly get mad when some people sneak keys in and hatch out.
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End game is where all the generators are done. When two survivors are left...they can use a key when two generators need to be fixed.
Yes keys punish you emblem wise just like moris but it doesn’t make it any less satisfying on the opposing side to lose just because of one item or offering.
Plus most people don’t care about their rank.
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Spirit was literally just nerfed so that her OP add-ons are balanced. She has a vaulting animation AND has no collision.
And sounds are broken so half the time I don’t even HEAR survivors even though I have on Stridor. But Spirit is still “easy” right.
Spirit is nowhere near as overpowered as she was. Is she strong? Yes. Overpowered? No. No killer is overpowered.
I see more Ghostface and Billy in red ranks that I do Spirit.
You’re just making yourself out to be a ass by assuming that every Spirit player plays her because she’s “easy” to you.
And they weren’t solo queue by the way. They were all in a group together.
And I never brought up Freddy. So again...stop assuming.
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I know I depipped the lobby because that is what tombstone myers does, that's what he has done for years now. When you murder 2+ people and they have less than 5,000 points? I think they depipped. And the rest of the survivors? They get 0 altruism, and with nemesis + PWYF you can nail someone with the tombstone before 2 gens are even done, so the game is ending with 2-3 gens left, so I know they didn't get any lightbringer either. Then they are dead, so they didn't get unbroken or whatever the last one is.
You can do literally nothing against a 130% movespeed tombstone myers. That's how it has always been, and that's how it will be until the devs nerf it (if they ever do).
It's the same as how I know I depipped someone because I tunnel mori'd them off hook or 1 hooked them in the basement or whatever other cheesy builds you can do with killer that end with them getting like sub 2000 points if you execute it correctly.
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People say she’s easy to play but I see so many low ranks struggle to pick up her up and play. You don’t see them struggle so hard with 115% killers.
Spirit isn’t just sound a lot of it is prediction. That’s why experienced survivors can juke a spirit quite a lot and if she misses her phase then she’s 110% until her power recharges.
She’s doesn’t require as much effort as Nurse or Huntress but I think a lot of the beef with Spirit is people just following what they read online.
If I play Spirit I see so many survivors that just crouch in front of the pallet. Like no ######### she’s going to get easy hits when you do that.
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Oh my god. Spirit has a vaulting animation now? What a nerf!
She can't get even more free downs by just walking into you anymore? What a nerf!
Does it stop her from teleporting straight onto your head with 0 counterplay because you can just hear exactly where they are with stridor? Uhh no, not really.
Everyone plays spirit because she is easy. It's the same with Freddy, I put them into the same categories. I used to put nurse there but she is so nerfed that only the pro's can use her extremely well anymore. That's where I hope spirit ends up eventually.
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I see low rank killers struggling to pick up trapper and wraith. I see low rank survivors who camp the shack pallet. They should not even be mentioned for actual balance discussions.
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It was a QoL change so that people like you are whining and complaining anymore.
Spirit has little counterplay, yes. You really have to know how to go against her. If you pallet camp like a dummy then you’re going to eat her katana. If you run around like an idiot and give too many clues as to where you are then you’re eating a katana for dinner.
Spirit is strong and can end chases quickly but she simply doesn’t have enough map pressure AND chases ability to pressure gens and get downs quickly. She has to pick one or the other. Which is why you can still escape her. Gens will fly by if the team is coordinated.
I dunno what kind beef you have with me because I played Spirit but it’s a one-sided beef. I’m still gonna play whoever I want and I don’t need you telling me why I should and shouldn’t play a specific killer.
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Low ranks struggle quite a bit with 110% killers because you have to know how to properly use your power. If you mess up then you are punished quite a bit. 115% killers are more forgiving.
As you said...people play stupidly against a Spirit. You can’t pallet camp while she’s standing still looking at you.
Any competent survivor can still lead her on a chase unless she’s REALLY good at prediction.
People can have beef with the way Spirit is played but to call somebody out and say they only play then for “easy downs” and because she’s an “easy killer” is just idiotic. Maybe I play Spirit because she’s my comfort zone and I like the way she’s play. Like damn. People can never be civil.
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I don't care that you play spirit. I'm just saying you are a nub if you main her, and have absolutely no reason to be complaining about keys.
You can't run from her, or you put out scratch marks and get outplayed by her following them. Or you walk, and get outplayed by her hearing exactly where you are.
"You really have to know how to put on iron will / quick and quiet and vault a pallet" Ok. There's a reason rank 1 SWFs literally DC half the time when I play spirit. Because there is nothing they can do.
She doesn't need mobility for map pressure for the same reason old nurse doesn't need map pressure, your map pressure is murdering everyone in under 30 seconds.
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I agree that DBD is a party game and extremely casual and it should not be taken too seriously, but sometimes you gotta know when something to too powerful.
Things like moris on first down, BNP’s instantly fixing generators, Prayer Beads, Omega Blink, Oni’s 180° flick, etc...are just a bit too strong and needed a change.
Keys and moris are a bit too strong and offer an early escape/kill for little effort.
No they shouldn’t be nerfed to a boring snoozefest but it’s not exactly a fun scenario for the opposing side in their current side. You just feel cheated.
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Keys aren't usable until the end of the round, and more times than not killers tunnel the person with the key. Mori's require a full chase, a hook, and another full chase in order to use. "No effort".
Just make them more rare so newer killers (in the case of mori's) can't get a hold of them as often. The seasoned killers who have hoards of mori's...they don't have all those mori's because they use them. They don't use them much, if at all.
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Opening the hatch with a key just needs to have a progress bar that takes some time to open. Very rarely do people just "escape" with the hatch when the killer isn't around if they use a key, it is almost always with the killer right on their butt and in their face, which I think is what people consider to be the most frustrating thing about keys. Before you could grab them and stop the key entirely, since EGC you can no longer stop a key in any way shape or form. No one was crying about keys before EGC, that is because they had "some" counterplay to them, which is all the devs need to change about them, add counterplay.
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Yeah because four keys are less powerful than a Spirit with green/yellow add-ons?
I rarely get DC’s when playing Spirit. In my own experience. People actually play the game and don’t whine and complain. In all my time playing Spirit I think I’ve had maybe ONE person mad that I played Spirit.
I understand that you dislike going going against Spirit, I really do. She’s unfun to face which is why I’ve stopped playing her as frequently (and because sounds are screwed up) but not all Spirit’s are good ya know. I escape a majority of the time when I face Spirit.
I can main AND play whoever I want because I bought the killer. So if I want to main Spirit then that’s my choice and you’re gonna have to deal with it. I hate Ghostface but I’m not gonna diss every Ghostface main because I dislike him.
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Four keys is redundant. The survivors only need 1 to get the full effect. Four keys screams solo Q, in which case I really don't care what they bring in, because solo Q's can get beaten by literally any killer build in the game.
Ghostface is just an M1 killer at the end of the day. There is nothing else that compares to what spirit can do, except nurse, and most nurses are garbage. Most spirits are garbage as well. Most survivors are garbage. Does that mean spirit is balanced in the hands of a very skilled player, because most people can't play her to her full potential?
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A full chase and a hook isn’t that hard especially if you’re playing an insta-down killer like Billy or you’re Nurse/Spirit. Sometimes even as killer like Pig I get my first down in less than 30 seconds.
Then you tunnel the unhooked survivor and you have three survivors with four gens left. It’s never a pleasant experience to face a mori.
Then you can get outplayed by having two gens left and two survivors and they find the hatch. They literally skipped their objective because they brought in an item.
Honestly I think the hatch shouldn’t spawn until ALL gens are done or there is one survivor left so then at least the survivors did their objective.
Just my take on keys/moris. I can never defend either one of them.
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It's not hard all the time, no. It depends on many factors. The fact is, there is effort involved. Mori's are fine, they just need to be more rare. Killers are more advanced ranks don't use them.
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I know they weren’t solo queue because two of them were green ranks and and two were red ranks and they all kept swapping between survivors in the lobby. They were obviously an SWF group.
Most players in general aren’t that good. Only a few are really skilled at the game.
So what if Ghostface is an M1 killer? He’s stealthy and gives no warning he is coming. I hate instadown killers and stealth killers. I’m still not asking for a nerf and for him to be put in Clown tier like you want Spirit (and for some reason Freddy) to be gutted and nerfed.
Can Spirit use more counterplay? Of course. I’m still not going to diss and call out people who play a killer I dislike though.
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The mori can take out 1-2 survivors out of the game faster than a key can.
All you have to do is camp the hook, down and mori.
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You think there is a reason Freddy was the highest kill rate killer in the game before his slight nerf? And by that nerf I mean he can't just put on 2 add-ons and get huge generator pressure for free? Now it's only moderate generator pressure for free? It did nothing to stop him snare-lusting you at almost every tile in the game.
And if a SWF is bringing in 4 keys, they are a bad SWF, there's not much else to say about that. An optimal SWF build is 3 toolboxes and 1 key. Maybe a flashlight or two with object to distract/bully the killer.
The best SWFs I see don't even use items, because they don't need them.
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Forever Freddy was boring as hell. I never like going against a Freddy. I still don’t think he needs a huge nerf though. Does he lose bloodlust after placing a snare?
A very good optimal SWF group is a rarity but the only killers that can reliably deal with a really good group are Nurse and Spirit. Maybe Billy, Hag, or Oni and if you’re REALLY good and you get a decent map then I’d add Huntress.
Survivors escaped via a key just makes you feel cheated. The same way a mori makes you feel cheated as a survivor. Darn. I guess I got outplayed because they brought in an ultra rare item/offering. Guess I should play better.
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And do you know why people have mori's in stock? Any guesses as to why baby killers have no mori offerings and more seasoned killers have so many? Because they don't use them. Why? Cause of the downside in points.
So yes, it would work.Your logic fails at the fact that mori's are not used that often at the majority of ranks that aren't baby ranks (cause of the novelty).
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