Balancing double standard.
So, as a fellow dnd player, we all have ideas on balance. Some people think that this is the most balanced the game has been. Others (including me) feel it is tipped to survivors atm (not like way early in the game, but still not fair).
But, from what I see personally, I believe that there is definately an unfair balancing for each side of.the recent.
As killer, the balancing around them feels like it is balanced around high killer play. If a killer does really well, then they should be able to get a 4k. They buff killers to basically make it to where great killers should be able to 4k.
The main issue is it isnt the same for survivors. They tend to balance around average survivor play.
Oh, you run and drop pallets quickly? Well, with gens now, the team should be able to get it done with some pallets left.
You went down and the killer is slugging because s/he needs to create pressure? Just bring a perk. Want to make it a lose-lose situation? Bring DS.
Want free bond? Play a swf.
Want to get a free escape with 0 effort if you find hatch? Being a key (moris are still crap, but at least you need a hook).
I could name more things, but we see it on the forums about all survivors 2nd chance stuff.
Tl;dr killers tend to be balanced around higher play. Survivors are balanced around average people.
Comments
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Possibly, it has something to do with the fact that killer is easier to pick up. It's easier to do well as killer when neither you nor the survivors know how to play than it is to do well as survivor in the same situation. So if killer strength were balanced around the skills of the average player, rather than the best players, new survivors would get absolutely stomped and stand no chance whatsoever in their games.
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I think both sides should be approached equally and have equal opportunity to decide the outcome of a match. One shouldn't require the other to make mistakes or play badly in order to make any progress. There should be skill involved, not just running from pallet to pallet every game or stuff like ironworks window.
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This game is both the balanced it's ever been, as well as tipped toward survivor.
There's no arguing the fact that it used to be worse, but they still have a ways to go.
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Just gonna nitpick here, but your comment about keys is just wrong. Survivors have to do gens to spawn the hatch. It's not a free escape with 0 effort. If all 4 survivors want to escape via the hatch they'd have to do all the gens, basically 100 Percent of their objective. If the killer wanted to kill everyone with a Mori they only need 4 hooks, or a third of their objective... it's objectively easier and less effort to Mori everyone than it is to use a key.
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Matchmaking is hands down the biggest problem right now. I was one of those affected by the rank reset, I went from rank 7 down to rank 13. Quit playing for 4 days to let the death squads get back into red ranks and I picked it back up tonight. I was playing against rank 6-11 with 200-2500 hours in the game, but most in that 400 range. Far closer to my own 200 hours.
Wanna know what happened? No rampant use of deadhard, bt, DS, and adrenaline.
First match was me as Freddy. Got a 2k ruthless. Second game was me as Billy. Got a 3K Ruthless. Third game was Billy, got a 2 man Brutal. Last game was Nurse, got a wannabe death squad... Sorry boys, I've been playing against the real deal for the last couple of months, I got a 4K merciless.
This was an enjoyable night. I got juked a few times, I lost survivors, I didn't 4K every match and my blood pressure never got over 120/70. It's these rank 1 SWF squads with over 10K combined hours that I get 90% of the time that send me off the deep end.
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Here you are making the mistake of assuming swf is the default.
If YOU want to escape, you either do the objectives OR outlast the other potatoes. The hatch will spawn for the last survivor.
Also, killer still has to chase every survivor twice to mori them. A "perfect" mori ruin is 2/3 of possible hooks.
A 4 man key plan escape still grants a third exit the killer will most likely not find/ patrol in time.
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6 second chances each without teamwork really, 2 heath states and 3 hook lives.
Tbh it's really hard to kill a survivor without playing dirty. And to get a 4k it's a non stop mistake less sweatfest.
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If new players were playing ONLY against other new players, the problem would be mostly solved, or rather we could really balance aroind that. I personally got stomped as both rank 20 survivior AND rank 20 killer, so I dont think there is that much difference.
So basically, we CANT balance around new players, new players should have separate balance solitions, only for them. Eg: longer gen times, but easier skillchecks, perks that teach and help new players should be accessible to them for free (Windows of Oppurtunity, Zanshin Tactics, BBQ, Lithe, Technican, etc)
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2nd - broken half the time
3rd - limited time, conditional, once per game
4th - limited time, conditional, if abused requires MORE healing from whole survivor team (you know, a TRADE-OFF)
5th - small boost IF endgame triggers
6th - limited time, once per game, requires rare add-on and an item
Noticing a trend here?
It's nothing against you personally, it's just every killer and their weapon have had this complaint. And besides, I haven't come across ANYONE who's run that specific build. And yes, I'm in red ranks, or was before reset.
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Showing off you own double standards makes the whole thread laughable.
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Nah.
DH Not broken, always works.
Taking hits with bt then jumping in a locker for free stuns with DS its 60 seconds. Lived downed and hooked two people after a rescue and been hit with DS on the 3rd multiple times
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The thing with Dead Hard is, that it works just fine if you use it for distance, which is where its used the most by good survivors, they can make a mistake and then DH to the pallet that they wouldn't be able to reach otherwise, thus extending the chase.
Also while it is true, that DS is conditional and only can be activated once per game, its effect is extremly strong and can turn the way the match goes easily, especially since the timer is so long and can get you stabbed even if you ignore/slug the person after he gets unhooked.. assuming they dont jump into a locker ofc.This wouldn't be a problem since its meant to protect against tunneling, but it also gives a survivor 60s of free gen-time if a locker is nearby. Its so strong actually that it can benefit you, even if you don't run it, if atleast one person, including the killer, has an obsession perk
The other perks I agree aren't that big of a deal, unless its a highly organized SWF that abuses them. The only thing that I don't agree with, is the trade-off for BT, since them abusing it may waste 15-20 seconds (not sure about the exact time) for one survivor, but also buys either the person or the unhooker alot of distance, especially with M1 Killers, meaning the killer loses all momentum, while the survivors lose 1/4th of their momentum, half if you chase somebody else while the unhooked person mends.
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Do you only play a m1 killler witg2 no adons and no good adons.cause the idea of saying these are second chances are like a nurses blink or the phase from spirt.you mess up then use your ablity or you have things like irri head huntress or pinkyfinger clown.plus perks like old ruin and bbq are some of the problems with this.both sides have perks that are second chances.take pop for example if you didnt pressure enough and end up basically giving up gens what does the perk do it makes it to where you can pop a gen and 25% gone.that 25% i bet is what most people get off of a dh play or ds play.
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So those survivors need to git gud. But seriously, the fact is this game is supposed to be about supernaturally empowered killers tormenting and sacrificing survivors to a malignant entity. Its based off horror movies and thier tropes. It should be difficult for the survivors to get away. In most movies only one person gets away...and then often the killer comes back at the end anyways. But instead the devs are trying to create a 2 for 2 scenario, even though thats not how the horror genre works at all. I'm not say the killer should always get a 4k, I'm saying survivors should be the ones having to struggle the most, not the killer. (I'm also not saying the killer should have it easy, but certainly easier then they have it right now).
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This logic is what kills the killer player base there are so few killers already and saying oh yeah good killers lose so average survivors have the chance isn't a good thing to say and more and more killers are either changing to survivor or quitting the game like me I'm just done with losing against bad survivors because they have 4 crutches survivor is so op atm that I survived 8/10 matches with only unbreakable and I'm not even very good you just hold m1 for some time and win that's what playing survivor is atm and why the queue times are too long and if having a miserable experience against good players wasn't bad enough already killers get hate for everything they do... How dare you slug as Oni! Don't use Infectious! noed noob! I can win without slugging! And that goes on and on
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Oh boi
25% of 60 seconds is 15 seconds of gen.
25% of a half done gen is 10 seconds.
Oh boi a reall second chance perk lollololol
Considering killers are expected to find-chase-down-hook in 35 flat.
No. Killers dont have second chance perks they have slowdown perks at best.
They dont have a perk that let's them rehook someone for free do they ?
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Slow down perks are the killers second chance.if you dont apply enough pressure these perks give you a second chance at slowing the survivors objective.perks like rancor and noed are the second chance kill perks.to survive chase there are second chance perks for survivors killers have it on slow down perks.your adons and ablitys are what make you have more chance and even a second chance in chase.if you make a wrong read but use your ability to fix it then you are useing a second chance.
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Deadhard doesn't break when used to potential during looping. You're looking at decisive as an individual, not a collective, so it's not limited time and once per game. 2 minutes of invincibility per survivor, per game. Total of 8 minutes of invincibility if you get four survivors running it and you three hook everyone. BT needs a cooldown, nothing more.
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JUsT aPpLY PRESSure
survivor main mantra
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I didnt say just apply pressure now did i.killers mains lol.see that doesnt do anything been rank 1 on both for over 4 months now.i said if you cant apply pressure ergo not downing fast enough not pushing off gens ect.i proved my point dont just say something stupid back that not only is non helpful but also not accurate.if you cant debate what i said then dont reply.
Post edited by witelighting on0 -
So each survivor can have 4 second chance perks and second chance item with a second chance add ons
But the killer barely has slowdown perks that dont synergize and give no second chances and ur reply is just use ultra rare addons on 2 killers only...
No. That's not an argument.
You cannot physically can not push 4 players off a gen. Whomever you are chasing the other 3 do gens. You cannot compete with that as killer.
Killer if you played it would know
Is a non stop constant sweat fest that relies solely on survivors mistakes to win. If survivors play moderately well not even great but moderately well. The killer is powerless. Survivors only have 105 seconds of objective.
If any and I mean any period where a find-down-hook takes longer then 35 seconds the killer lost the game. That's the slim margin of error basekit killers work with on basekit survivors.
I could push stats on u all day or show you 1000s of recorded games on YouTube from each and every streamer If you want but ur not gonna listen. Ur gonna be a survivor main and just aPpLY pressure as you feel like your gonna win an argument.
Entire minutes of invincibility from each survivor from single perks. Second chance after second chance from 12 perk slots and 4 tool slots
You dont even understand what second chance even is.
Getting a free 60 seconds where no matter what the killer cant hook you because you'll not only escape his grasp but also stun him and heal up a health state. That's a second chance.
Getting hit but DH eats it and you get a burst of speed to drop another pallets or vault when you would have downed that's a second chance.
Being so cozy that you can unhook in front of the killer by baiting the strike then laughing as BT saves you from going down and the other person can DH away if you dont all while two other people do gens.
Ur out of ur gord if you think any killer has any second chance perks. Not one time does any killer perk down someone, or injure someone or hook someone.
In before you say survivors perks are situational... getting hooked or doing a gen isnt fcking situational it happens each an every match! EvERY MATCccH. Getting a hex to last past the FIRST minute that's situational.
Rancor ? Why wouldn't the last person walk out the gates with everyone else ? What does it matter if he's the last u one hook him anyway. Why doesnt he hatch? If he's not the last survivor then every other survivor left is a distraction or something to block you. But ok. I'll give you maybe sometimes that might in a rare situation be something like a second chance but only one time a match... but DS can happen 4 times a match.
But DS not only breaks the grasp, stuns the killer but HEALS a health state so you can run off.
Not one single killer perk does anywhere near that much. Not a single killer perk on base even helps the killer obj of killing. Maybe maybe you can quote hexes. But since survivors can erase them on base what good are they ? ApLy preSSure I only wrote this much because I know your not going to read it all tbh and I'm waiting for the car to warm up so I can go home.
Noone proved any of your points especially not you. You said something stupid so will I. Apply pressur
The game wildly is survivor sided balance wise on base kit.
And the only thing that keeps 4E from happen each and every game is 1-3
1 Terrible camp tunnel mori killer play that everyone complains about and the game actively punishes and rewards poorly.
2 Survivors mistakes
3 select killer powers with perfect builds that survivors dont somehow dont bring any countermeasures with expert sweatfest killer play might if they get good totem spawns and a small map that rng favors them they might win.
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At this point I just think they get kicks out of making the game a bully simulator. 4 People gang up and pick on the one person they put on the other side. Even if the other side does well, they will just flame him in end game chat.
Change the game name to bully simulator 2020 and you'll be golden.
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Yep. I really hope that this new match making thing works out, and puts both killer, and survivor in the same skill bracket. I'm getting tired of consistent matches against green, and purple ranks, and getting my ass handed to me. I don't mind a good challenge, but damn..
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I wasn't talking about killers in general, I was talking specifically about killers at low ranks - who happen to have the kind of kill rate that matches your horror-genre expectations, from what I understand. There's a difference between a challenge and impossible odds. People "git gud" when faced with a challenge - they quit when faced with impossible odds.
Also, this is a game, not a movie. Player experience should be priority. The biggest mistake that anyone can make when adapting something from one medium to another is not respecting each one as its own medium. Games shouldn't feel like the movies they're based on if that makes the game not fun to play.
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But its really not that fun for killers right now, and with matchmaking the way it is its making it even worse. The real problem that it comes down for me is the fact that the devs care more about new players fun, especially survivors fun over killer fun. The more I see the more it seems to me that the devs are more interested in high turnover like a terrible fast food place then trying to make a good game with a strong and consistent player base.
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I think you greatly overvalue the complexity of playing survivor. It really doesn't take more than a few games to figure out Gens, totems, windows, pallets. It's really simple.
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You're either lying or just an anomaly. Those are all the most used survivor perks. And there's a reason. Despite your nonsensical nitpicking, these perks are all extremely powerful.
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And yet, the kill rates are highest at grey ranks. Surely there's a reason for that.
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MY nonsensical nitpicking? I'm lying or an anomaly?
How am I an anomoly? Because I haven't played with that specific build? I've played against people with some of those perks, but not all of them. Then again, I don't grind for Rank 1. But I've played at red. And it's also Xbox. The only one of those perks I consistently use is DS and I do it as intended.
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Actually I just have to hide in different lockers and let my teammates die. I dont have to do any gens(my objective) and can still escape with a key.
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The killer has won at that point so it's not really a big deal if the last survivor escapes via hatch.
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I’m just gonna say this.
If killers are balanced around high rank play then why does camping still exist? Even in red ranks people are camping, when this isn’t considered the most optimal way to play a killer because you are not fulfilling your objectives to pave your way to high rank.
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Except that at red ranks if you dont get the 4k you can black pip or even depip.
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It's because grey ranks is a combination of actual newbies, griefers, and people who just wanna good off. There are also smurf killers to take into account
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I don't care what you use. You said you'd never come across "ANYONE" who used that build. I'm currently killer rank four and I see this build, maybe with one varying perk, literally dozens of times in a two hour play session.
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Why would the same not equally be true of the other side? Killers who just want to goof off, and smurf survivors?
And if the same is true of both sides, then surely the statistics surrounding "false" grey rankers would balance out, and what remains is a bunch of new players who still seem to have an easier time killing than they do surviving.
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Ok. Are you on PC, Xbox or PS4? Because, like I said, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BUILD ON XBOX. As well as never using a majority of it and still reaching red.
They can't be THAT good if a little Gen Gremlin Claudette can reach red.
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