One condition to make NOED more fair
Comments
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You said it yourself, there are 2 perks and an item that greatly aid in cleansing totems. Are you saying that the survivor team should not have to run non meta perks or bring an item other than med kit, toolbox, flashlight, or key?
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Gen speeds need to be adressed on their own, making NOED a source of slowdown and balance would mean repeat from the Ruin situation
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Ugh, what part of "ITS FINE THAT YOU HAVE TO CLEANSE 5 TOTEMS TO DESTROY NOED" do you not understand?
Again, my problem is that it does not require ANY effort from the killer, If you could use NOED only on people you have hooked before, it would be fine.
And no, playing with NOED is not like playing with 3 perks for the entire game, slowdown caused by "getting of gens and doing totems" is not something that can be ignored.
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You don't like NOED? Learn to do the bones.
That being said, however, if you want to require 4 hooks before an Ebony Mori can activate, we can talk.
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I like NOED, I use it.
I just don't like how tunneling campers rely on tactic "1 camped, other NOEDed". No more.
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Are we really continuing into 2020 with “fair”? It’s a competitive game of die or survive, kill or they escape. Do you want a participation badge as well?! By time y’all are done making this game 3,000% fair for both parties it won’t be fun anymore, their won’t be any thrill of bettering yourself to escape. Their won’t be any excitement from beating a hard killer. Because everything will work out for both side with what y’all are asking for
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DBD, competitive, lmao. That's a joke right?
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You're once again incorrect, it does require effort from the killer. You're asking the killer to play a entire game with only three perks. and on top of that there's even more risk because if all the totems are destroyed well guess what you don't get a fourth perk that whole game. This is a serious game changer, and it's also why no Ed is not a very good perk. You're trading early and mid game pressure and going in all hands on deck for maybe a single hit or two in the end game. Totems are easily found when lit, and if you rush through a game expect to get no ed.
And it is like playing the whole game without a fourth perk. when ruin was around it typically was only up for a minute, no Ed is the same way if someone realizes it's up they can easily destroy the totem by finding it, or making a build that helps you find totems. The killers work for no ad by not having a 4th perk most of the game. That's the trade off! would you prefer NoEd to just activate at the beginning of the game? Seriously dude quit complaining and just learn how to play the game. No Ed is a perk that punishes gen rushing, and it does so with plenty of hard counters seriously just one person running small game will ruin any effect no it has. So yeah, no Ed does require work, it requires you to play the majority of the game with only three perks. and that's because most survivors do not care if no ed is a thing, they'll either destroy it when it goes live after a hook is made or it won't be in the game at all. It's super easy to counter, and the killer has to take a serious disadvantage to even run it. I mean do you play killer? Have you? That's like for going dead hard or decisive strike in a a survivor loadout.
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You are wrong here. Its not playing with only 3 perks at all. Cleansing all 5 totems takes 80 seconds, this is 1 gen without a toolbox. This is a slowdown comparable to old ruin.
Also, by "It doesnt require effort" I meant that a killer that does nothing all game (eg camps first foumd person the whole time) gets the same effect from NOED as killer who played well (eg got 8 hooks).
If you could use NOED only on people you have hooked before, then it would be fine.
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If you camp in the beginning of the game and do nothing but camp you're going to get generator rushed. also if you camp someone you're losing emblem points and you're going to go down and rank. You're talking about an issue that is already being punished by separating them into lower cues. It's easily counterable, and yes if you don't do all five totems the killer gets a power that you can take away from them by cleansing a single totem. you don't have to cleanse all five before end game but you could also find it during the end game and get rid of it which is what usually happens if in 20 seconds of it being discovered. If you camp you're going to go down and rank, but no Ed is a perk that doesn't need to be changed.
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Ever heard of decisive strike? the perk that rewards survivors for going down faster
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Totems spawn in patterns. Usually one in each corner and the last is either in smack middle or somewhere near there. Count the ones you did, remember the corners you did them in and you'll always find them. I've done that and got them all typically before first 2 gens are done. It's really not that hard and doesn't take any time up really so you can M1 still to freedom
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Noed is fine. Just give him a kill and leave
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Thats why both these perks should get balanced
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How is that a solultion lmao
"DS is fine. Just give them that escape and leave"
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They are balanced though, and these perks serve a function, one prevents tunneling and the other prevents gen rushing (Poorly mind you) I mean seriously its not hard to find totems and even if you wait to the end game its unlikely that the camping killer will hook the survivor next to the totem as well meaning you likely can destory the totem and save your friend in no time at all! DS is a perk that simply makes sure you don't get ######### over by a greedy team mate which lets face it, happens all the time. These perks should feel powerful, hex perks should feel even MORE powerful and the downside of having to wait till the end game + Having it be a hex perk which can be denied is more than enough to keep it balanced. Its not even used in high ranking matches that much which says to me its not that bad. In my own personal opinion I rarely get much use out of NOED and if your forced to camp to confirm a kill your likely not pipping anyway. It does not do anything but make it a little easier to deny survivors 5k of survival, which likely won't even result in a depip.
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Leave NOED Alone 💯
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I'll take ai killers and survivors
If your giving them out lol : P
Could be fun for alittle of the grind. White noise did it fine
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DS is balanced as it is. Just don't tunnel the survivor.
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Spoken like a true rank 20.
Imagine you can be hit by ds without tunneling at all but that is ok.
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When I play kill, I give everyone equal opportunity to heal up and do whatever, I count 60 in my head. I may get 1k, 2k, 3k or even 4k. I feel like it is all about timing.
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You don't have to cleanse them by yourself, you're part of a group and your entire group should be on the look out during the entire match.
Heck, you don't even have to cleanse totems during the match, you can wait for the gens to be completed and play sneaky while you search for a lit totem. You don't have to cleanse them all, it is just better that you do.
You have options, very easy options, and with how fast gens go, you have no reason to complain about doing totems. If you have a complaint, it shouldn't be with NoEd or the Killer choosing to run it, it should be with you and your lazy or potato teammates.
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A better way to make it more fair would be to make it base kit for all killers so they don't have to waste a perk slot.
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Noed is fair as is. You don't want it? Small Game. Don't like Small Game? Dunno what to tell ya. Cause it literally pinpoints each totem for you.
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If they tunnel it's the killers fault. They lose more points that way
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THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYIN o3o
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It's not getting changed. Deal with it. Stop being lazy and cleanse totems. You have perks that do the work for you all you have to do is move forward on your keyboard.
You all ######### and moan about being bored on generators all game. But when you have a second objective you ######### and moan about doing it cause you have to leave the generators to use your eyes.
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Ok, try desperately to save the hooked person, so you give free kills to the killer, and then complain that noed is unfair or op
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Ok, try desperately to tunnel the last person and give free escape to the survivior, and then complain that DS is unfair and op
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How about no. Especially not with the upcoming survivor roid buffs
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Except they dont if they use NOED.
Camping with NOED is a guaranteed 2k, and that is only if surviviors are not altruistic at all. If they try to save anyone, it becomes 3-4k quickly
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Wow, now campers will get free downs without wasting a perk slot!
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fyi.
Campers usually do not leave the hook. That is why they are called campers.
If you never come for the save while it is still up then whose fault is that?
When people stop feeding the campers, is when they learn to leave the hook.
Let them get their one kill and be done with it. Punish them. They will tire of staring at the hook and doing nothing else. No rank. No points. Hardly fun.
Problem is also the survs themselves. They are indirectly promoting it by swarming the damn hook. If i was him i would not leave either. He is protecting his only prey.
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#LeaveNOED Alone
As a solo player that values stealth, i tend to NEVER get screwed by this perk. Remove it before it gets activated!
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No they arent. Not tunneling doesnt disable DS in ANY way, actually the best counter to DS is TUNNELING early to trigger it.
NOED pervents genrush, but AGAIN, it doesnt require ANY effort, planning, skill, tokens anything from the killer. You can camp one person all game and still get NOED.
Camping takes 120 seconds, finding and 1st chase takes max 120 seconds, so its max 240 seconds total.
Genrush with 3 people takes min 160 seconds
So genrush counters camping.
But what about NOED? Cleansing itself takes 80 seconds, and finding 5 totems with 3 people will take min 40 seconds.
160 + 80 + 40 = 280 seconds
So genrush does not counter camping if NOED is in play, camper will have more than enough time to catch another person.
So NOED even better camping tool than old Ruin was...
So how to balance NOED?
You could use NOED only on people you have hooked before.
That would stop NOED from being used by campers, but wouldnt affect normal players at all.
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Camping takes only 2 minutes. After that you need to catch someone else. And NOED helps you with exactly that.
Its almost impossible to genrush a NOED camper
Read the comment above for accurate timestamps.
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Bro, have you PLAYED killer before? Many chases last longer than 120 seconds and it can easily take longer than a minute to find a survivor, + If a survivor escapes a chase then you just wasted your time. Not to mention its 3 gens being completed or nearly completed after first chase which Is huge. Keep in mind by your own logic it takes thats 240 seconds per survivor. With it only taking 160 per gen that means before the second gen is completed the killer has effectively killed a single person and is in chase with a survivor with NOED. So the killer can down that survivor and put him on a hook. This gives you 240 seconds to find ruin, assuming one of you have borrowed time then finding NOED and using your fully healed health states to rescue dude number 2 out a door won't be a problem.
In this situation 3 survivors survive and the killer DEPIPS, shooting them lower in ranks.
This situation assumes no one uses their full health states to body block and save boyo one off the hook, and no one is using DS.
But lets say you actually get your asses off gens and do totems. By the time one person gets hooked and goes into teir 2 all the dull totems are done. You can easily body block and get your friend off hook and getting the gens done should not be too difficult at this point in time. Assuming hes downed a second person and decides to face camp the situation is the same you can body block save, or you can leave him on the hook and get roughly 3 gens done. By the time second person goes on the hook "Assuming its not the person who went in teir 2" You can get the last two gens done easily. Plus if your inclined a body block save might be clutchable for the end game and once again the match result will either be a 1-2 kill with massive points deducted for standing near the hook. So again killer de-pips and the majority of the survivors escape.
Camping does not work unless you let it work by not working as a team, its a 4v1 and if a killer plays like this its very easy to just out play them. Giving them free hooks by soloing a save when they are camping like that rewards their gameplay. Hovering near the hook rewards their play style, and finally you can easily deny the perk. Or use the fact that they are camping to find and destroy NOED instead of simply breaking all dull totems.
Why did people run Ruin instead of NOED Before? Its because Ruin was a better tool, and provided early game pressure. It was frustrating though because it made skill checks difficult even for skilled players let alone new players and because of that it had to be changed so that it was easier to understand so SWF's and randos would not screw eachother over by missing checks that should of been good to begin with.
NOED on the other hand is a little bit of end game pressure that can be easily denied, and further more is a poor tool to even add end game pressure. IT also is easier to understand that "KILLER MAN BAD IF HE ONE SHOTS PEOPLE" So new survivors know to avoid him or destory the totem. Again... dude your arguing for a change that does not need to be made
DS, Borrowed Time, Self Care, Unbreakable, Prove Thy Self are all survivor perks that require no real effort from the survivor to activate yet provide a great benefit to their gameplay style. I Don't think that needs to be changed, I think that its fine we have perks like this. "DS Can only be activated if you pallet stun the killer 4 times" "Borrowed time can only be activated if you healed another survivor fully" "Unbreakable can only be done unless you heal another survivor off the ground" Do you see the rabbit hole thinking like that goes? Jesus christ play something other than survivor and maybe you will see why none of this ######### your saying makes sense.
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I play killer more than survivior atm lol.
Chase never lasts more than 120 seconds because you drop it before that, because thats either a god loop or a survivior is just way better than you.
So catching a survivior and camping him to death is still 240 seconds while finishing all gens + totems is 280 seconds. So its guaranteed that killer will have time to chase 2nd person before gates are powered.
I just explainded that camping with NOED always works, doesnt matter if surviviors are doing gens or not, because as I said rushing gens amd doing totems takes more time than camping.
Using NOED by bad players to slowdown the game will just lead to the situation we had with ruin, NOED will get nerfed to ground for no reason. So its better to nerf it now so that only campers cant use it, instead of letting devs completely nerf NOED for everyone later.
DS is just as dumb perk as NOED and needs to be nerfed, BT is also strong, but unlike DS it can be countered by not tunneling and dodging bodyblocks, unless its 3 unhooks at a time or something. Self Care is the strongest game slowdown perk, you should be happy that surviviors brought it. Unbreakable counters slugging, which is an OPTIONAL tactic, unlike hooking (countered by DS) or doing gens (countered by NOED). Prove thyself is has a huge downside: all surviviors have ro be together. This is countered by multiple killer perks and playstyles, so its nowhere near op.
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Survivors don’t get indication how many totems or left or if their team mates done all the totems. So as a solo survivor that isn’t really a valid point unless one of the survivor brings a map with them. That being said the killer would see the map of the survivor and either change perks or just tunnel him.
if a killer is camping they would probably bring insidious with them and put the survivor down in the basement. Thus giving the survivor zero knowledge if the killer is there or not and would just give the killer a easy 2k or more. That’s why we have memes of leather face basement.
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Another boring thread with boring braindead survivors who cry about Noed. Again and again. Learn to destroy totems and cry less
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just do totems. im trash and it dont bother me.
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I think NOED is ok as it is right now. Having it only activate if there is one totem remaining and having hooked all survivors would make it much harder to pull off and I think most people would not use it anymore.
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Yes and in a compromise adrenaline only procs if you haven't been hooked.....
Lmao.. imagine wanting to nerf a perk that you can actively make sure doesn't even activate.
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Did you legit just complain about NOED and also state all of the ways to counter it?
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Dude, I never said that Self care is good I stated that it requires zero effort to pull off. The point of bringing up these perks is as follows. There are perks in this game that don't require effort to use and that is completely fine. I don't understand why you think we need to have a condition for these perks to activate and why your targeting NOED in specific here. Camping a entire team will lead to the Killer deranking and most killers don't exactly camp in this exaggerated way you described. If they do they ######### lose! What can't you get through your head here? Camping likes them denies them chaser and devout emblem which you would know if you ever played killer and thought about it for 5 damn seconds. Playing like the way you describe LOSES Them the game and typically resaults in a 2k at best which is not a measurement of winning. If hes not chasing either then the strongest loops and pallets would remain in the game that can easily stall the killer for minutes on end, your complaints are invalid at best.
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It doesnt matter that perk requires no effort to use IF its VERY WEAK. NOED (or DS) is certainly not very weak, thats why I target it and not other perks.
Well, my experiences are a bit different, I never camp like this myself, but it happens quite often that I see camping.
My rework idea (NOED can only be used on people you have hooked before, like moris) does not affect normal players AT ALL, it affects ONLY CAMPERS.
So it doesnt matter if camping is rare or not, campers get to ise NOED unfairly and shouldnt be able to. I think we can agree here, unless you are camping like that yourself, this change would not affect you in the slightlest, nor it would any killers that play the game and not just stand in front of their first hook.
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NOED is a extremely weak perk because it does not lead to successful games that cause you to rank up. You don't see NOED Campers past like rank 10. Its punished, With borrowed time a survivor is rewarded for a unsafe hook rescue and actually can pip if the killer decides to tunnel the dude off hook because lets face it its kinda easy when they do it in your face. No effort applied, by your logic Borrowed Time is more deserving of a rework than NOED is right now.
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Ah yes waste countless time in game countering a perk the killer MAYBE has. Brilliant idea.
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I agree, but the nerf I propose would not affect the perk verstility at all.
The game is not only rank 10 and higher and its not true anyway, high rank players often use camping to derank, while also ruining fun for other people. So its not viable in terms of ranking up, but is very annoying to face and hard to counter if the camper has NOED.
Borrowed time doesnt help, campers bring perks that counter it, while some killers (Bubba, Ghostface etc) are immune to BT altogether.
So the nerf would not affect the gameplay of normal players at all, it would only make countering hard campers easier.
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You
You are lying, If you wanna De-rank you DC Or sit in the corner. Making people take longer to do gens is just a bad way to derank. This nerf is also pointless and not needed. I've already explained several times, playing the game with out a 4th perk is a big deal and if you played killer you'd know it.
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