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You literally need STBFL to stop Survivors from sabo'ing in your face with new Saboteur.
I'm not kidding. Unless you have 6 to 8 tokens of Save the Best for Last, the time required to sabotage a hook with Saboteur is shorter than the time the Killer takes to recover after hitting someone while carrying a Survivor. Meaning that unless you have sufficient stacks on this one particular Perk, a healthy Survivor can literally sabo the hook directly in front of your face and there is nothing you can do. I don't have any footage with me because I wasn't recording at the time, but if someone asks, I could try to get with some friends and record some.
Comments
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Don't you get a free down if they continue to sabo in your face?
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There’s no way this goes live lol
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If you see a survivor run to the hook go to another hook simple
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You wanna bet? People said this about the Ruin changes lol
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Ruin changes suck in short term but long term it’s better it shows how broken gens are
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With the difference that the ruin changes werent utterly broken and were necessary to an extent, this sabo buff just feels unfair, it must take at least 10 seconds to complete..
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Just equip stbfl and stop whining, just like every killer telling survivors to equip unbreakable to counter slugging.
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The new sabo needs to take at least 4 seconds AND allow you to hook the survivor while the hook is being sabo’ed. The way it is, it’s just so unfair to the killer.
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Ah yes, let me just move to the hook that's half a Terror Radius away when I've already wasted over half my wiggle bar getting to this first hook—oh, no, I didn't bring Agitation, so other Survivors can get to the hook faster than I can!
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Who cant see a survivor scratchmarks or could hear a sabotaging noises?
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Ah, yes, allow me to equip a Perk to counter the Survivor's ability to literally prevent me from doing my job as a Killer. Oh, I don't have enough stacks? The person going for the sabo is the obsession, so I lose stacks on hitting them? I don't want to bring STBFL because I'm Billy/Oni/any Killer whose primary source of damage is their power instead of their main weapon and it serves next to no purpose on them?
Darn, guess I just got outplayed by the Survivor literally breaking a hook in my face without any form of counterplay aside from getting lucky with a Perk that might be low-tier on the Killer I'm playing.
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Just look out for scratchmarks or sabotaging noises before you walk up to the hook.
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I guess you just missed the second part about Survivors being able to outpace you without Agitation—because I should totally be forced to bring an underwhelming, C-tier, QoL Perk to counter hooks being done in my face instead of using that Perk slot on, I don't know, something that actually facilitates my gen pressure.
Also, they don't NEED to preemptively sabotage. They can run up, get smacked, and THEN still sabo the hook, and without STBFL you're totally screwed. You see someone at a hook, chances are you aren't going to get to use it.
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I mean if they take two hits you're just 1-for-1ing so you don't really lose much. Not that big of a deal tbh
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It is quite ridiculous. There's no strategy required aside from "beat the killer to the hook", as you can sabotage it faster than he can damage you or get to you unless they're running both Save The Best For Last and Agitation. And 2.5 seconds is with a brown toolbox with no addons: an Alex's Toolbox with sabotage addons can do it in under a second. This is absolutely outrageous.
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"Want to make a mechanic fair? Use a perk slot!"
Hmm, where do I recall seeing this argument before?
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I'll be honest, I should have deleted that comment as I was irritated when making it. I do think that the sabotage time is short, however it also works in well with the hook respawn timer for sabotage actions. Perhaps changing it to where a killer can still do the animation (basically forcing the survivor off of the sabotage action) and the timer is increased to 3s or whatever would make it fair for both.
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I agree. I've seen it in action, and the speed is way too fast.
I understand what the Devs are going for but two seconds? Jesus Christ.
It needs to be longer. Long enough for a survivor to plan ahead to put the killer at a disadvantage, but not fast enough to do it right in the killer's face.
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I think its just way too fast in its current form.
There should be no circumstance where you can destroy a hook in front of the killer's face.
I think I like what the devs are going for; it needs to be fast enough to allow the Survs some ability to plan ahead and play around hooks, but not so fast where you can do it in the killer's face with no consequence.
2.5 seconds is just way too fast. 6 seconds would be a good default for Sabo.
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I'd wager you'd need a bare minimum of 3 tokens for that, 4 or 5 if they go back to saboing fast enough. The time taken to break a hook is literally that short.
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Drop them when you see sabo. Attack other survivor. Hook is supposed to spawn back fast enough for you to not have to leave them for very long.
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You can just run doc and get them to tier 3 to avoid the nuisance.
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Can't always happen depending on location and maps
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I haven't tested anything cause I don't play the PTB. I don't play because they don't listen to our feedback anyway. I predict this sabo change might be broken when it gets here. Might. I've only watched one of Tr3's vids on it. It looks super fast, hardly consumes any charges on the toolbox. You can say if everyone is saboing they aren't doing gens. Well if the killer can't hook anyone they are just going to slug even more. Survivor's will all run unbreakable or the new survivor perk that insta heals a downed person. I feel like were going in circles here? I could be wrong. I think when GF was on the PTB he used to get kicked out of stalk insanely fast even through objects. Then they fixed it before he released. They could do the same here. That is the purpose of a PTB after all.
Either way if it's anything like the flashlight/pallet stun QoL patch. We can hope they revert it shortly. When the patch drops and if sabo turns out to be broken I expect 2-3 weeks of "play something else" till they fix it.
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For sabo to really be effective on most maps it will need two people doing it as it now has a cooldown.
Keep in mind it will be most useful in a coordinated SWF. This means three people not on gens as they will have to be in position to make it happen effectively as hooks can be relatively close by. We also have perks such as agitation and iron grasp to help counter it along with mad grit which means the person struggling has another 8 seconds of doing it if you hit the saboteur twice.
What the change does do is give these survivors something else to do other than just gens. It encourages a risk v reward idea and at worst it should allow killers to injure more along with downing the saboteur. You can swap the one on your shoulder leaving them slugged while you pick up the other.
This means there will be three people off gens as even if the slug has unbreakable another one will more than likely be going for the save.
This won't bring back the old sabo imo and as we know the term gen rushing came about after sabo was originally nerfe.
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I dont know, maybe, drop the survivor if others are THROWING THEMSELVES AT YOU.
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The "behind the hook" sabotage save is just as easy to do solo on the ptb as a flashlight save, and will become a highlighted problem once more people start doing it/it becomes common knowledge - Hangman's Trick will do nothing to alleviate this.
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It's really only bad once a good coordinated survivor with Breakout will body block the killer. Let the guy Sabo the hook and all 3 now get away. You may point out that means less gens done and 1 extra hit, but the pressure you lose while the 4th survivor is on a gen and losing a hook state is not something to shrug off.
This is just assuming it's a single survivor who's coordinated enough to pull this off which is not unreasonable. If it's a SWF group this is fully possible every time you go for a hook.
Now let's add some flashlights or toolboxes into the mix and it can be even worse. This new speed has more going wrong for it then anything beneficial.
You may think it's fine, but your not exactly an average skilled player either.
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I honestly don't understand the change. Make it so hooks can't be 99 but also make it so all hooks are saboed almost as quickly as if they were 99. like, what was the point?
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I also kinda don't see the logic behind that ..
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Especially given that the ratio of sabo time:hook downtime is still 1:12.
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To try and fool innocent Killers
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There are so many answers that killers have available to them. Numerous perks counter this including Iron Grasp, Agitation, Mad Grit and Hangman's Trick. But you don't even need to equip special perks. Just plain old situational awareness goes a long long way. There is almost always 2-3 hooks within range when you down a survivor. If you see a survivor running to a hook while you are carrying another survivor then go to another hook! Sometimes, just sometimes, you'll get outplayed. That's how the game is supposed to work.
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It's so stupid, you need to take Mad Grit, and HT to counter the saboteur changes, in every build because I know for a fact this survivor build is going to be meta.
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As far as not needing special perks and just situational awareness... Well toss in the fact that three are probably going to be distracting the killer while one is always on gens - now you got two survivors intercepting hooks for sabo while one is getting carried. Throw in a body block and breakout perk, now you aren't even going to make far to the first hook, and definitely not to any second hooks. Even a determined group of survivors right now can make life difficult reaching any hook without special perks, situational awareness is only going to tell you that you are screwed.
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Dude, that is magical christmas land type thinking. It just isn't real. I have never, NEVER gone up against a group of survivors acting the way you are describing. But even in this hypothetical magical world you are describing, I would still be happy to be the killer in that situation. That means I'm getting free hits and survivors aren't working gens. They might be able to occasionally stop a hook that way, but I'm going to win by the end of the match.
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I guess the reason for the sabo changes is to make Hangman's Trick relevant.
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Excuse me but running perks just to counter something, it's a bad idea. Specially if you need two perks slots. I do like to sabo hooks but it's way too fast for the killer, and I that play mainly as a survivor see the real issue here. And yes, 3 survs don't do gens but having two or one person sabo'ing at your face is not what I consider fun, for a killer.
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It's not a hypothetical magical world 'dude' - I've done many times as the survivor.
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This is what perk counters are all about.
Iron will and strider, slugging has unbreakable, exhaustion add-ons, bamboozle for Windows, enduring and spirit fury, franklins etc the list goes on and on.
You don't have to run any of these perks or two of them at the same time as one can be enough but they are there if it becomes something you wish to try and counter more.
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Yeah but its not like hooks are close together. Now Survivors have another second chance and now killer has to waste more time chasing. When u play killer time isn't on your side. I feel bad for New people learning killer. To much to try to learn in short matches. Us OG only need to adapt.We already know are tools and tricks.
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No. That's why he's saying you need several stacks of STBFL or Mad Grit to do it. And then the hook gets sabotaged anyway.
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I don't mind when a Survivor manages to get the hook break before you can make it to the hook. But when a Survivor gets hit while sabotaging and is still able to finish the sabotage during the hit cooldown animation, I think that is a problem. I don't see a good reason for a Killer (carrying a Survivor, obviously) to be unable to stop someone from finishing the sabotage when they were able to straight-up land a hit before the sabotage was complete.
All of those perks except the PTB Hangman's Trick (which is allegedly getting changed for the live release) suck, though.
Source: Every other perk you just mentioned makes up the entirety of my meme build.
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